Doctor REALITY

Malvern, AR

#534616 May 15, 2013
Doctor REALITY

Malvern, AR

#534617 May 15, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there anything intelligent you can say?

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#534618 May 15, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
Hey,that nose with the red wart kinda' reminds me of another infamous nose!: http://www.bing.com/videos/search... 'M+MELTING+OZ+YOUTUBE&mid= 48773AA0596316FEE43E48773AA059 6316FEE43E&view=detail &FORM=VIRE1
Hey! Why you sending me crap, or match making stuff ??? You should know I am light hearted but not dumb stupid Doc???

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#534619 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah we would probably not be aware it happened. But since right now you can think and act for yourself, is that something you would want? You are capable of considering it now since your mind is free. would the tradeoff be worth it? Would you prefer to be a mindless robot? The question isnt could God do it or would we know after but rather would it be worth taking all the real meaning and individuality and personalities that makes us unique out of life? What would be the point? Dont you prefer to be able to make your own choices?
I'm not sure we'd become "mindless robots". This is a concept that really defies conceptualizing in some aspects. For instance, those people we discussed that are compelled to do something, either by an obsession, or those that have no restraint of conscience(uninhibited free will?), are often found to be relatively normal people in many respects(they don't all become killers, rapists, arsonists etc...). Oft times they live in society with relatively few problems.

I think the point, is that to talk about an absence of freewill, and then make declarations about what that would mean or imply as far as affecting the lives of humans is all conjecture, from both you and myself.

Sure, it can be discussed, but I don't think it can be fully explored since we are in possession of a will.

As limited or unfettered in whatever circumstance it may be.
Doctor REALITY

Malvern, AR

#534620 May 15, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Doc! This downloads... so I deleted without looking... keep it real man?
You're no fun....

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#534621 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Edit Scaritual...put it this way. What if someone were to come up behind you and shoot you in the head? You would just be dead. You wouldnt know you were dead or that someone took everything of meaning from you. Would that be all right since you wouldnt know it happened?
Is that what you perceive or conceptualize no free will to be manifested as?

Interesting.
Doctor REALITY

Malvern, AR

#534622 May 15, 2013
Doctor REALITY

Malvern, AR

#534623 May 15, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey! Why you sending me crap, or match making stuff ??? You should know I am light hearted but not dumb stupid Doc???
http://www.awn.com/files/imagepicker/35/1106g...
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#534624 May 15, 2013
scaritual wrote:
As it stands, at this moment, your deity belief is no different than any other deity belief, what suffices to you as evidence, also works on the Hindu, Animist, and all other deity belief variations in more or less general terms.
So, while you or the Hindu may feel that you each worship the "real god(S)", due to whatever reason, if the evidence is to cause someone to believe differently or change deity belief completely, then it has to rely on real evidence.
This is not so. There are fundamental differences between monotheism and nature religions.

The idea of the real God, the only truth, is essential to monotheism. In most nature religions people do not believe such a God. And it they do they say the same God expresses himself in many different Gods.

They recognize a variety of Spirits, as everything in nature has a spirit, even simple stones (Only in Abramistic religions it is believed that only man carries a spirit).

Humans are neither submissive nor inferior to Gods in Nature religions. In nature religions people USE the spirits like we use material objects. They do not submit to them. Worshipping is rather a technique to acquire things. If they a worship a God or other spirit and it does not have any effect, they will cast him aside like a blunt knife. They do not care at all what other people worship, just what works for them.

In nature religions Gods are simply another class of beings, and there are classes of Gods as well. For instance you have spirits that possess a material body, like the Sun, but also spirits that do not have that. We still speak of the spirit of Love, the spirit of Peace, The spirit of Harmony, but also the spirit of hate.

That a stone has a spirit should not be understood that it has the mind of a human being. But some people can sense that some stones have certain beneficial spiritual qualities, apart from their physical qualities. That is why some people sense certain objects bring them calm or bad luck. Of course their is a lot of deceit and false claims in people selling stuff in commercial societies.

But today we have become over-rationalized in trying to give even all spiritual experiences a material cause. For instance if Sunlight has a beneficial effect on depression, it has to be explained in a material cause-effect-chain.

It is because of Christianity that we are trying to do that, because Christianity claims that only humans have a spirit. So my words may have a spiritual effect on you but not the Sun.

What we call "theology" is unique for monotheism particularly Christianity. Nature religion base itself on induction, but Christianity is based on theory. It was designed. It started with Plato, who created the idea that all objects in reality are imperfect copies of perfect forms in another roam. These forms he recognized in perfect circles, triangles etc.(ideas developed by earlier philosophers). These perfect forms were part of the perfect being, the ONE GOD. The Jews and many other cultures incorporated these ideas.

When the Romans constructed Christianity they threw ideas from all cults in the mix to keep everybody happy. They created a theoretical monstrosity called the trinity. This is the work of scholars, theoreticians and politicians. In this concept the one God is a spirit, a father figure, and a walking talking hero and moral teacher at the same time.

Nature religions are essentially based on induction. What you feel. Not on theory, they have no theology (ideology). A religion like Hinduism for instance has many schools of philosophy. But no theory is a theology. Just like science as several theories on an phenomena. American Indians never cared about any special God nor did they believe in a heaven, but they prepared the spirit for the next life.

The whole belief thing is typical for monotheism, especially Christianity. So not throw it all on the big heap.

“squuuze me”

Since: Feb 09

Florida, USA

#534626 May 15, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
Dork ...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#534627 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text> the questions dont irritate me, stupidity does. You arent even close to on point. But like a child who insists ppl stop and pay attention to him you want to switch the conversation from why God doesnt stop bad things from happening to why God has punished mankind as told in the Bible. For an adult, those are 2 diff converations. Had we been talking about the other subject I would have been fine with it. But we were not
No, it's relevant to the conversation, in which the biblical story has numerous instances of interfering on it's own behalf, but mans, not so much.

Okay, now would be a good time to bring up that the deity sent its other self to save its creations from the wrath of itself by sacrificing itself to itself.

And all the while despots and storms and afflictions and life taking events take the lives of humans on a daily basis.

I suppose if that pissed the deity off or the deity took offense from that, he'd intervene there, too.

At least we have rainbows that guarantee us the world won't be flooded again...~/

Teeny floods and death is just fine, however.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#534629 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Edit scaritual...its ironic that for all the talk of myths and comparisons to Easter bunnies and what not that its unbelievers that feel if God exists that he should function as a Genie in a lamp and just grant personal wishes by only intervening when you permit it to do what you guys approve of. Maybe that is why some left the faith? Because God wasnt their personal wish granter
Genies:

RR might like this one.

There were three girls on a deserted island. One Blonde, one brunette and one red head. One day a bottle washed up. One of them picked it up and while rubbing the sand off of it, a Genie appeared.

"Since you released me from the bottle, I will allow three wishes. As there are three of you here, you each get one wish", said the Genie.

He looked first to the dark haired girl. She said, "I would like to back home with my boyfriend."

POOF !! She was gone.

He looked next to the red haired girl. She said, "I want to be back home with my family".

POOF !! She was gone.

He looked at the yellow haired girl. "What is your wish?", asked the Genie.

She looked around sadly and said, "I'm all alone here. I wish my two friends were back."

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534630 May 15, 2013
Catcher...dont start pulling a HL. your badgering of Trifecta and questioning why ppl wont answer you was aggressive no? And asking hypotheticals and then when you get rebuttles you cant attack, changing the rules and going literal and claiming you dont believe in God is aggressive no? Telling believers their God is a nasty SOB is aggressive no? As it was though I was simply having a little fun with ya..ya know..ooops..like you wrote?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534633 May 15, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's relevant to the conversation, in which the biblical story has numerous instances of interfering on it's own behalf, but mans, not so much.
Okay, now would be a good time to bring up that the deity sent its other self to save its creations from the wrath of itself by sacrificing itself to itself.
And all the while despots and storms and afflictions and life taking events take the lives of humans on a daily basis.
I suppose if that pissed the deity off or the deity took offense from that, he'd intervene there, too.
At least we have rainbows that guarantee us the world won't be flooded again...~/
Teeny floods and death is just fine, however.
Again, why God doesnt intervene in man acting of his own free will to stop man from sinning and stop acts of man is not the same subject as why would God punish man and acts of God. Im moving on

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#534635 May 15, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a question for you: Does Jesus love Satan?
If Jesus practiced what he preached (Love your enemies)and Satan was an entity then yes.

In Judaism however, Satan doesn't exist as an entity so no, he wouldn't.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#534636 May 15, 2013
Mark wrote:
This is not so. There are fundamental differences between monotheism and nature religions.
The idea of the real God, the only truth, is essential to monotheism. In most nature religions people do not believe such a God. And it they do they say the same God expresses himself in many different Gods.
They recognize a variety of Spirits, as everything in nature has a spirit, even simple stones (Only in Abramistic religions it is believed that only man carries a spirit).
Humans are neither submissive nor inferior to Gods in Nature religions. In nature religions people USE the spirits like we use material objects. They do not submit to them. Worshipping is rather a technique to acquire things. If they a worship a God or other spirit and it does not have any effect, they will cast him aside like a blunt knife. They do not care at all what other people worship, just what works for them.
In nature religions Gods are simply another class of beings, and there are classes of Gods as well. For instance you have spirits that possess a material body, like the Sun, but also spirits that do not have that. We still speak of the spirit of Love, the spirit of Peace, The spirit of Harmony, but also the spirit of hate.
That a stone has a spirit should not be understood that it has the mind of a human being. But some people can sense that some stones have certain beneficial spiritual qualities, apart from their physical qualities. That is why some people sense certain objects bring them calm or bad luck. Of course their is a lot of deceit and false claims in people selling stuff in commercial societies.
But today we have become over-rationalized in trying to give even all spiritual experiences a material cause. For instance if Sunlight has a beneficial effect on depression, it has to be explained in a material cause-effect-chain...(snipped for space)...Christianity.

Nature religion base itself on induction, but Christianity is based on theory. It was designed. It started with Plato, who created the idea that all objects in reality are imperfect copies of perfect forms in another roam. These forms he recognized in perfect circles, triangles etc.(ideas developed by earlier philosophers). These perfect forms were part of the perfect being, the ONE GOD. The Jews and many other cultures incorporated these ideas.
When the Romans constructed Christianity they threw ideas from all cults in the mix to keep everybody happy. They created a theoretical monstrosity called the trinity. This is the work of scholars, theoreticians and politicians. In this concept the one God is a spirit, a father figure, and a walking talking hero and moral teacher at the same time.
Nature religions are essentially based on induction. What you feel. Not on theory, they have no theology (ideology). A religion like Hinduism for instance has many schools of philosophy. But no theory is a theology. Just like science as several theories on an phenomena. American Indians never cared about any special God nor did they believe in a heaven, but they prepared the spirit for the next life.
The whole belief thing is typical for monotheism, especially Christianity. So not throw it all on the big heap.
I still think the mechanism of belief works the same for whatever worshiped or respected deity, or "force/aspect of nature" is being discussed at the moment.

I also think belief in ghosts, astrology, mediums and other "supernatural" things people profess a belief in are quite similar, or exactly similar in the mechanism by which people decide to believe in deities, "revered forces", "perceived supernatural energies", whatever it or they may be.

You could probably apply that to aliens, too.

So, yeah, I understand that Monotheism and Animism et al are disparate belief sets/concepts, but the way in which those beliefs are arrived at are much the same.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#534637 May 15, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Hogwash, it was to me for me and filled with you or your. But you are pissing in the wind. What you say means diddle squat. One looks past one who flaps their lips and bla bla bla comes out, not fear their words. At most you pretend to listen but go on pretty much doing what youíre doing. Otherwise you would get nothing else done because them lips never quit flapping. Some people/you just can't seem to do any better.
LOL
Oh and it is you who will have to be nice to get nice, but you donít want that. Then you would not be able to flap them lips and I know people off topix donít stick around to hear all the bla bla bla. LOL
OK. Thanks.

I can't get nice from Christians without censoring my inflammatory opinions. In most places and times in my life, I have had to get along with Christians, whether on the job, in the neighborhood, or in the family. The repercussions for pissing off the wrong one could be significant.

But not here.

And you and everybody else can easily ignore my posting, so if it pisses you off, whose fault is that? You can also choose not to be personally offended by comments not directed at you.

I've made my choice. I'd rather say what I think on the subjects we discuss here than be friends with people who are too offended by my opinions to be friends. I realize that that could be most of you. I accept that.

So, I give an opinion about your religion, you tell me how horrible I am, and then I tell you whatever comes to mind. That's the best I can do with somebody that is personally offended by my criticisms of her church.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#534638 May 15, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
If Jesus practiced what he preached (Love your enemies)and Satan was an entity then yes.
In Judaism however, Satan doesn't exist as an entity so no, he wouldn't.
That makes sense to me for the Christian Jesus.

Of course, in Judaism Jesus isn't a messiah anyway.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#534639 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Again, why God doesnt intervene in man acting of his own free will to stop man from sinning and stop acts of man is not the same subject as why would God punish man and acts of God. Im moving on
You say it isn't the same, but in a religious mythology that asserts the deity is an all loving, all knowing, omnibenevolent entity that cares more than humans can comprehend, then, it's a relevant observation.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534641 May 15, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Is that what you perceive or conceptualize no free will to be manifested as?
Interesting.
What? No I was addressing your argument of where would be the harm if we didnt know our free will was taken. You also wouldnt know if u were killed but no harm there either? losing free will causes harm

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