Why Should Jesus Love Me?

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#534282
May 15, 2013
 
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
You are all over the place and I am not understanding why as I posed a very simple and straight-forward hypothtical
There doesn't even need to be a religious component involved since my post simply stated if man had no free-will then people like stalin and Hitler would be innocent
Why they would have no free-will isn't even important to that point. The point is someone without free-will is not responsible for their actions. There is no "conjecture" about it.
If someone doesn't act voluntarily of their own mind then they aren't responsible for their actions
Whether man can sin or what my religious beliefs are have nothing to do with it
I will start again, please try to stay focused on what I am saying and presume it is based on all sorts of other components not included
If man doesn't have free-will...
(and i don't mean what degree of free-will do people think we have based on our choices being limited to our environment or any other factor)
...then he can't be considered responsible for his actions. If you believe otherwise, that someone with no free-will is still responsible for their crimes, explain to why you think that
What does responsibility have to do with it?
"man does what man is capable of doing"

Do you believe the story,"adam and Eve" were born perfect?

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

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#534283
May 15, 2013
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I would advise all sceptics to read it, not once but many times. The first time I was so impressed by all the heroism, I did not notice how nonsensical it all was from an ethical point of view. You have to read it a few more times to see through it.
I once met a black man, he had passionately studied my "Mein Kampf"
I said what a strange thing to do
He said: Know thy enemy!
We should get past disgust, rejection, and study these guys seriously. To call them stupid and want to beat them in an intellectual discussion is simply your own vanity. Yes they are evil, but far from stupid. Stupid people do not rule the world. What makes them tick, what are there thought processes, how do they operate? Understand and even admire their cunning intelligence. Then start thinking about effective answers.
READ THAT BIBLE!
Understand its brilliance
Jesus said:
John 6 :37 All those the Father gives me

will come to me,

and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said,
“I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
42 They said,“Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say,‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets:‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

~*~
How can you be comfortable in thinking that God is NOT seeking you? Doesn't that make you feel left out? TRUST that YOU too are invited to admit the promptings you are feeling on your heart. Ask Him - "Are YOU for real ?"- then you will know what we know~ and He will forgive you your doubt ,when asked to.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

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#534284
May 15, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess that I've put a little thought into it too, and I have a question for you: why do you keep referring to belief in spirits - gods, angels and demons - as being spiritual? You don't seem to have a clue what spirituality is.
The sine qua non of spirituality is a feeling of connection to the totality in is vastness and mystery. This elicits feelings of awe and gratitude.
You have diverted that away from your universe to a make believe world of ghosts. You call the chief ghost mysterious and awesome, and pretend to be connected to it and grateful to it.
But the fact is that you're as disconnected from reality as is possible. You despise the world. You despise the flesh. You consider matter base, and flesh fallen. The world is the worst it has ever been, man is useless, and the animals are just so many soulless meat bags put here for you to dominate.
That is a counterfeit spirituality. And there is nothing spiritual about you. You're just a deceived guy who doesn't know what is important and what is nonsense.
It's important to teach people what authentic spirituality is. Living life like you're at a bus stop waiting for the bus to heaven and thinking not about the time and place of your life, but a time you'll never see and a place that doesn't exist instead, filled with a deep pessimist about man and his world, is as bleak and unspiritual a philosophy as I can imagine.
And are you going to write 50,000 more times in some different versions of what you just wrote here arguing that the Christian God does not exist? LOL.

How many more times will you write some version of "The Christian God does not exist" for you to realize that Christians here KNOW you believe the Christian God exist reason you argue against the Christian God so much?

~~grin~~

You going to deny? well show me another forum where you argue against Santa Claus as much as you argue against the Christian God.

I mean, Santa Claus is as popular in the U.S as Jesus Christ. So show me where you argue 50,000 times against against Santa Claus that you don't think exist. Unless you do believe Santa Claus exist lol!oy!lol.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#534285
May 15, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You misunderstand the bible, scar. It ain't an "instruction book". It doesn't teach you how to be a good Christian all on its on. It's a starting point only.
Then who's doing the teaching when Christians say, "the bile teaches ..." or "Jesus' message is ..."

Your priests each have a different opinion, like the rest of you.

Jesus teaches nothing. It's the priests teaching according to the church's self-aggrandizing agenda.

==========

But back to Jesus. What good ideas did Jesus teach? What does he think that worth teaching? Any at all? The only worthwhile words I know attributed to him, such as love one another, were known long before his alleged birth.

If you listen to him further, you find out how perverted his version of love is. These are some of the things that "Jesus teaches" that might be original with him:

[1] Matt 5:28-32 - Jesus says marriage to a divorcee is adultery; and a man who ogles a woman has already committed adultery; and that you must cut off your hand or pluck out your eye if it offends.

[2] Matt 6:19-34 - Jesus says don't save any money and don't plan ahead.“Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”- Matthew 6:34

[3] Matt 8:32 - Having no regard for private property, Jesus destroys a herd of someone else's pigs.

[4] Matt 10:34 - Jesus says he brings not peace on earth but "a sword."

[5] Matt 19:12 - Jesus says the best way for a man to be sure of getting into heaven is to have himself castrated.

[6] Mark 11:13 - Jesus destroys a fig tree for not bearing figs out of season.

[7] Mark 14:4-7 - Jesus says it is more important to anoint him with precious ointment than to give to the poor, who will always be here.

[8] Mark 16:18 - Jesus says anyone who believes in him can play with venomous snakes or drink poison without harm.(This act has been often tried, with rather unsatisfactory results.)

[9] Luke 12:47-48 - Jesus says it is permissible to whip slaves.

[10] Luke 14:26 - Jesus says no man can be his disciple unless he hates his parents, siblings, wife, children, and himself as well.[“If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”- Jesus (Luke 14:26)]

[11] Luke 19:27 - In telling a parable, Jesus insinuates that anyone who denies his rulership must be killed.

[12] John 15:6 - Jesus says anyone who doesn't believe in him must be thrown away and burned.

[13] 2 John 1:10-11 - A Christian is forbidden to offer hospitality to a non-Christian, not even to wish him "Godspeed" on parting.

[14] James 4:4 – Christians are not to be friendly with the world: "You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."

This is what Jesus teaches. I don't see any love there. Surely we can come up with better ideas than these, and yes, we already have.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

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#534286
May 15, 2013
 
Ephesians 4:29
Do
not
let
any
unwholesome
talk
come
out
of
your
mouths,
but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
~*~

Otherwise WE are THEY- who disrespect His name and purpose~

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

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#534287
May 15, 2013
 
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Tri but I wasn't complaining about anything. I was just making a point to Skom. The part about prayer for my leg to grow back was just a joke. My leg is gone. It's not coming back. I understood that as soon as the anesthesia wore off. I get by OK without it.
Obviously you do. But that book by Joni go way beyond prayer though. She became a paraplegic after a diving accident. How she dealt with the emotional roller coaster of that and in the end being at peace with it is an inspiration. Forgetting about the religious aspect of it, I think you would enjoy and learn from that book.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

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#534288
May 15, 2013
 
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
Difference is that people don't go to jail for not believing in an unproven god, or loving a person of the same sex, or wearing mixed fabrics, or touching pork of any kind, or eating seafood, or...et cetera.
Your attempt to equal hell to jail just failed miserably. Besides, the biggest difference?
One exists, one doesn't.
God does not send people to hell for food or fabric reasons~ Loving someone of the same sex does not mean you have to have sexual relations- He does say that THAT is a sin.... As the person is choosing sexual satisfaction as their 'god'-

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#534289
May 15, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
LOL

that's the freethink motto... If you don't agree with them, you're a liar, a bigot, racist, intolerant and ignorant.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I haven't heard too many people called racist here, bit the rest is typical. But I hear it from Christians. I am called almost all of those things almost daily by the Christians on this thread. Weren't you doing just that when you substituted "black" for "Christian" in my post? I guess it must be a Christian motto.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You're an intolerant bigot.
LOL yourself.

I can set my watch by posting like this it's that regular and predictable.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

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#534290
May 15, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then who's doing the teaching when Christians say, "the bile teaches ..." or "Jesus' message is ..."
Your priests each have a different opinion, like the rest of you.
Jesus teaches nothing. It's the priests teaching according to the church's self-aggrandizing agenda.
==========
But back to Jesus. What good ideas did Jesus teach? What does he think that worth teaching? Any at all? The only worthwhile words I know attributed to him, such as love one another, were known long before his alleged birth.
If you listen to him further, you find out how perverted his version of love is. These are some of the things that "Jesus teaches" that might be original with him:
[1] Matt 5:28-32 - Jesus says marriage to a divorcee is adultery; and a man who ogles a woman has already committed adultery; and that you must cut off your hand or pluck out your eye if it offends.
[2] Matt 6:19-34 - Jesus says don't save any money and don't plan ahead.“Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”- Matthew 6:34
[3] Matt 8:32 - Having no regard for private property, Jesus destroys a herd of someone else's pigs.
[4] Matt 10:34 - Jesus says he brings not peace on earth but "a sword."
[5] Matt 19:12 - Jesus says the best way for a man to be sure of getting into heaven is to have himself castrated.
[6] Mark 11:13 - Jesus destroys a fig tree for not bearing figs out of season.
[7] Mark 14:4-7 - Jesus says it is more important to anoint him with precious ointment than to give to the poor, who will always be here.
[8] Mark 16:18 - Jesus says anyone who believes in him can play with venomous snakes or drink poison without harm.(This act has been often tried, with rather unsatisfactory results.)
[9] Luke 12:47-48 - Jesus says it is permissible to whip slaves.
[10] Luke 14:26 - Jesus says no man can be his disciple unless he hates his parents, siblings, wife, children, and himself as well.[“If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”- Jesus (Luke 14:26)]
[11] Luke 19:27 - In telling a parable, Jesus insinuates that anyone who denies his rulership must be killed.
[12] John 15:6 - Jesus says anyone who doesn't believe in him must be thrown away and burned.
[13] 2 John 1:10-11 - A Christian is forbidden to offer hospitality to a non-Christian, not even to wish him "Godspeed" on parting.
[14] James 4:4 – Christians are not to be friendly with the world: "You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."
This is what Jesus teaches. I don't see any love there. Surely we can come up with better ideas than these, and yes, we already have.
Jesus said:
John 6 :37 All those the Father gives me

will come to me,

and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#534291
May 15, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
So you can't pinpoint any particular churches and you know that some churches get political so you just generalize and stereotype all of them.
Say "wah-tuh" Helen. Wah-tuh. Wah-tuh.

< lightbulb illuminates above RRs head, then immediately flickers and goes dark >

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#534292
May 15, 2013
 

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Mark wrote:

Lets analyse this typical cunning Christian response:
First rationally: They crucified 5000 slave among the Via Appia and let their rotten corpses hang there for years as warning, but they got all sentimental about one dead troublemaker in one of their provinces?.
I doubt that it's very 'typical' of Christians to argue that Jesus was merely a 'troublemaker'...

Try again?

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

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#534293
May 15, 2013
 

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Hmmm- came in to look for EPIPHANY's posts~

...

“Today we pray”

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#534294
May 15, 2013
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:

I think you may be drunk right now.
One wonders what lead you to such an erroneous assumption.
I trust my methodology for evaluating information, rational skepticism, and logic.
Well, your methodology for evaluating information, rational skepticism, and logic failed you in claiming that I may have been drunk.

For the scoreboard, I posted that around 5pm last night and was sipping iced tea.
No, I'd rather compete.
That's childish. Not very rational.
We don't need to agree about the nature of reality for there to be only one correct version of it. Some people may just have a more accurate understanding of the nature of reality.
There's "only one correct version of reality"?!

Huh... I remember reading this, gimme your insights on it (since you know what is and isn't normal)

"During sex, Jack's girlfriend, Ann, let her Irish setter share the bed. Since the dog took an interest in the proceedings, the arrangement made Jack uncomfortable. When Jack expressed misgivings, Ann attacked him as obsessive. Jack told Ann that he would be seeking my opinion. Good, she said. I was just the guy.

Was Jack neurotic? Was Ann perverse? I chose not to answer; with or without diagnoses, the two would break up (presently, they did) or enter the sort of stable relationship where the woman calls the man fussy and the man considers the woman irrational. But I did note that my role—fledgling psychiatrist—now qualified me to adjudicate: Who is normal?"
A free thinker is not inexorably bound by their opinions/thoughts/beliefs or by external authorities.
M'kay...
A rational skeptic is a free thinker who evaluates claims to determine if they are true. We rely on falsification and empirical research that is reproducible. We trust our conclusions only as far as the quality of our methods merit. We take into account human limitations in what we are and aren't able know and understand. We strive to remove as much subjectivity from our evaluations as we can, to more accurately map reality. We think understanding is a prerequisite to value judgment.
Thanks! I'll endeavor to stop comparing freethinkers and rational skeptics.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

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#534295
May 15, 2013
 

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Posted by a friend- a topic close to the heart of Christ. For His purpose and His glory- we enter Christianity and we accept His help to clean us up.

"This past weekend was kind of a quiet one to me. My heart has been aching for all the family members that are not serving the Lord. I think to myself, how in the world do they get along without the Lord in their lives.

When you give your heart to the Lord and decide to follow him you must do it with your whole being. You cannot live for God half way. People think its ok to still party, drink, cuss... and do other things God looks down on.
I read a scripture yesterday in the bible that spoke to me and I thought this is the reason why we as Christians are not seeing healings anymore or other wonderful things God has for us. The scripture I read stated that if you have anything in your heart that is wrong like hate, envy, jealousy, strife etc God will not heal you. Your heart must be pure before the Lord before he can do anything for you. Is it time for you to fall in Love with Jesus? Ive been praying and working on things in my life too and I must say Im not perfect but Im going to do more praying and seeking God everyday... I want what God has in store for me."

“Today we pray”

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#534296
May 15, 2013
 

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Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I would advise all sceptics to read it, not once but many times. The first time I was so impressed by all the heroism, I did not notice how nonsensical it all was from an ethical point of view. You have to read it a few more times to see through it.
I once met a black man, he had passionately studied my "Mein Kampf"
I said what a strange thing to do
He said: Know thy enemy!
We should get past disgust, rejection, and study these guys seriously. To call them stupid and want to beat them in an intellectual discussion is simply your own vanity. Yes they are evil, but far from stupid. Stupid people do not rule the world. What makes them tick, what are there thought processes, how do they operate? Understand and even admire their cunning intelligence. Then start thinking about effective answers.
READ THAT BIBLE!
Understand its brilliance
You consider Christians your enemy??

Are you waging an atheist jihad?

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#534297
May 15, 2013
 

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Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Catcher don't do that interveinous stuff.
You'll haft'a teach 'em so's he'll know what yer talk'n 'bout.
Sure he do. He'll draw that line then use a rolled up page of the bible instead of a $100 bill...

“Today we pray”

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#534298
May 15, 2013
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
Is this a question?
I'm making fun of you, boulder.
Then don't claim that rolling a boulder uphill is normal. That's not very rational of you...
I call homosexuality natural because it occurs in nature.
So what. Rape also happens in nature.
I say it in response to those that call it unnatural. They either understand what these words mean, and are just incorrect, or are ignorantly using the wrong words to try to say something else.
Undoubtedly the latter.

Perhaps they use 'natural' when they should use 'normal'.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#534299
May 15, 2013
 

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Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Zeus wasn't the cause of 250 million deaths.
I don't care and won't debate Zeus (ceppin the Liam Neeson one)

“Paul is a confessed liar”

Since: Jul 11

Sydney, Australia

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#534300
May 15, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care and won't debate Zeus (ceppin the Liam Neeson one)
That would be the Greek version of your deity. Catholics use the Roman one 'Deus Pater'(AKA Jupiter). Only those speaking English call it God.

You Pagans are funny.
Bongo

Bayport, NY

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#534301
May 15, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Say "wah-tuh" Helen. Wah-tuh. Wah-tuh.
< lightbulb illuminates above RRs head, then immediately flickers and goes dark >
wahtuh are you sayinga, that rr is a dimwit?

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