Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533968 May 14, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. won't repeat it ..
Them how can I comment on whether or not it was me?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#533969 May 14, 2013
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
"God moves in mysterious ways"
That's another one I've heard used when believers refuse to attribute a bad thing to their god. Yet they never have problems crediting good things to their god.
I feel like I have glossed over this part

Let me just say I personally haven't seen people attribute terrible things to God and claim that. At least not things like you were saying like someone being sexually assaulted. I don't know a single believer that would think someone being raped was God's plan instead of the result of man having free-will

I realize some people believe every single act that takes place anywhere is part of God's plan. I am not one of those people. At least if the explanation is man not having free-will. I believe everything happens because we have free-will and it was God's plan to give us free-will and the autonomy to make our own choices

So if somehow there are believers that would say, well God's plan was for that girl to get raped so later she would help other rape victims or something bizarre like that, no I don't subscribe to that belief. I do believe often life is a test of endurance and temptation and we are to lean on God for help and guidance and when we overcome difficulties it makes us stronger for the experience. But there is a difference between finding the silver lining and claiming God wanted something terrible to happen just to get a certain result. There are much easier ways he could have gone about it if that was the case.

And yes God does move in mysterious ways. But that is because man does not have the mind to fully understand God. But God gave us free-will. That is part of his plan. The responsibility for the choices we make due to that freedom falls on us

(T) Peace

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#533970 May 14, 2013
I don't know who Yellodog is. And you the one write to me today. You write to me, then you don't like what I write back, so then you don't want me to write to you no more?? lol. What you think? you thought you was going to come on this billboard with mostly Christians and get you way? The definite statements of beliefs I make, is concerning me. My responsibility is to prove God and to know God for Myself, not for you and not for nobody else.
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
trifecta1, I don't mean any offence, but I think it would serve us both best if we stop posting to each other (my problem is remembering which persons I have decided to not post to any longer). You are making definite statements of belief on this site, and this is a discussion site, not a church service, or Bible study, so since you appear to not want to participate in discussion, why bother?
I have had more than enough unpleasant experiences with the "friend" of most people on Topix, Yellodog, also known by several other names, all of which have been identified and admitted to as being the same person, except for her current several IDs, who claims much of the same things as you do, but has also proved herself the most rabid liar on Topix.
I don't think you are a liar, nor would I accuse you of such, and I only continue posting to this other party because of her continuous vicious attacks on everyone who does not agree with her thinking, and also due to the reported serious mental illnesses she has (not related to her religious beliefs) which people, who personally know her claim are putting her elderly ill mother at danger, such that I and a few others (mainly me) have taken some action to try to get her help, but so far with no luck.
We got personally involved with this person years ago, because she very early, before my coming to Topix, had identified herself as to name, location, workplace etc. Otherwise we would not have had any opportunity to seek help for her.
I am not suggesting you are in that category at all, as I have mentioned many times, my mother is a devout believer, who would likely agree with much of what you believe. I have a very high regard for my mother; likely the best woman I have ever known in my life, in spite of a bit of narrow-mindedness on a few subjects (but who doesn't have that problem?).
eh..ok. God bless mothers. I no know what you want me to say. I not attacking anyone for not agreeing with me. I here discussing my philosophy and my beliefs. That what the billboard for, discussions, so discuss. If you don't like what you read from those that disagree with you and now you pouting and want to take your ball and run home, then don't discuss philosophy then. Because if you can't handle what is written back to you, then keep you beliefs to yourself, and don't discuss them.

This is the west, we practice free speech and democracy. You have a opinion about Christianity, I have an opinion about atheism. I state mine, you state yours. We will never agree. But the point of discussions is not to agree, but to share. So share writer.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#533971 May 14, 2013
???oy!lol. Someone tell you I in congress?? or work in the white house?? I can't pass no law. It take the whIte house, the senate and the house of representatives to pass laws in the U.S. So I no what you talking about me passing some law.
[QUOTE who="Lacez"]<quot ed text>
That's why you can't pass any laws based on your religion, because you expect everyone to take it as you do; as true without any evidence.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#533972 May 14, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No, that's what you say. I said the bible isn't a manual.
No, you're remembering what you think you thought I said. I said it was an "instruction book", and you compared it to a drivers manual.
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

Let's look...
RiversideRedneck wrote:
It ain't an "instruction book". It doesn't teach you how to be a good Christian all on its on. It's a starting point only. Look at it like a driver's manual.
I don't see that there is a difference between 'instruction book", or, "manual", but, you decided that was what the bible compared to, a "manual", your words above clearly show that.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Wait for it.....LOL
It's pretty simple to grasp.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Which is it, scar? Is it simplistic or is it so complicated that no one understands it?
Hold on, you still aren't remembering what I said previously, http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR... , in response to you saying...
RiversideRedneck wrote:
One cannot simply read the Bible and say that they understand it, it is one of the most complex books ever compiled in our history.
My reply was...
scaritual wrote:
It isn't. It's simplistic. It is from the worldview of a people from that time who thought that is what the world was.
You, the Christian says it's complicated.

I made the mistake in thinking you would understand that part, since I'd just said it was simple to understand. I forget how detailed I must be when interacting with you. If I don't, you run off in all directions.

I should have specified "Christian".

Just look at how much you misunderstood in this exchange.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#533973 May 14, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
bull<cough>shit
That's all I have to say about that...
That's pretty much all you ever have to say.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#533974 May 14, 2013
Adam wrote:
Is it just me? Everytime When I see the picture from Khatru I must laugh.
LOL... laughter is good for the soul ;)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#533975 May 14, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, the whole freewill thing is laughable.
Soooo..You do NOT think man has free will?

And you think man does NOT have free-will because the God you don't believe exists didn't man him free-will?

You ever start to wonder what the heck you are even trying to accomplish any more when these are the arguments you bring forth?

Just saying

That believers are the ones trying to convince unbelievers that man has free will is just bizarre. If anything one would think it would be the other way around and people of faith saying everything is predetermined by God and unbelievers saying that isn't true, we all have free-will. But you guys are so out of arguments that this is where we are at

I am definitely not getting into knowing the future doesn't mean man doesn't have free-will charade. Nobody gets to live the same day twice and knowing the future doesn't eliminate free-will. If anybody left on Topix still believes otherwise, well to each their own.

And the Bible has hundreds of verses that common sense tell you we have free-will. As if it even needed to be spelled out?

Joshua 24:15
15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#533976 May 14, 2013
ooops, deleted the wrong word

Should read:

"didn't give man free will"

not

"didn't man him free will"

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#533978 May 14, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you have wanted to be a pre-programmed robot?
Free-will does come with a cost, absolutely. But without it, life would be meaningless
What would love mean if not your choice?
What would any emotion or experience mean if not made of your own free will? What would be married or being friends or caring about people mean if it wasn't your real feelings?
And yes to have genuine experiences made of our own free will means people can choose to do bad things as well. That's the cost of mental freedom
As to the rest I can simply give you my opinion as to why God doesn't intervene every time. Every action has consequences. Every action has meanings. Some good, some bad. I believe this life is a test. God provides us a life and a life-sustaining environment. He created us with the intellect to flourish and the natural resources to survive. he gives us tools and guidance and teaches us the right way to live. But then it is up to us.
If God just intervened every time not only it would render free will meaningless but it would rigg the whole system.
There are places where God will never allow sin or crime or corruption. But that is not in this life. But think about what you are suggesting. That man by himself is so immoral and so evil that it is irresponsible for a loving God not intervene millions of times a day to prevent man from hurting others. Does that sound to you like a species that deserves that kind of protection?
It isn't that God doesn't care imo but I believe the system has to work this way. We have to have free will. Because at the end of all of this we will stand before God and be held accountable. And isn't that the fairest thing? That people actually must take responsibility for the way they lived their life and the choices they made? Yes there will be some suffering in this life. But that is a drop in the bucket of time when talking about eternity. It really isn't a lot to ask of us and nothing that wasn't done for us. Sure it would be great if everything was perfect all the time in this life and the next. But this life determines the next and without free-will, it would be meaningless
JMO
(T) Peace
I wouldn't suggest that a god should intervene "every time" people are about to "do bad things." But I do suggest that a god with any sense of decency, if he has the power, would at least intervene in extreme situations. Say, the holocaust?

To allow the holocaust to happen is no way to make our life "a test."

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#533980 May 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't suggest that a god should intervene "every time" people are about to "do bad things." But I do suggest that a god with any sense of decency, if he has the power, would at least intervene in extreme situations. Say, the holocaust?
To allow the holocaust to happen is no way to make our life "a test."
But don't you see the dilemma? if your threshold is the holocaust, another person's threshold could be...car accidents, or bank robberies, or an illness.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#533981 May 14, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Soooo..You do NOT think man has free will?
And you think man does NOT have free-will because the God you don't believe exists didn't man him free-will?
You ever start to wonder what the heck you are even trying to accomplish any more when these are the arguments you bring forth?
Just saying
That believers are the ones trying to convince unbelievers that man has free will is just bizarre. If anything one would think it would be the other way around and people of faith saying everything is predetermined by God and unbelievers saying that isn't true, we all have free-will. But you guys are so out of arguments that this is where we are at
I am definitely not getting into knowing the future doesn't mean man doesn't have free-will charade. Nobody gets to live the same day twice and knowing the future doesn't eliminate free-will. If anybody left on Topix still believes otherwise, well to each their own.
And the Bible has hundreds of verses that common sense tell you we have free-will. As if it even needed to be spelled out?
Joshua 24:15
15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES
No, no, no, you misunderstand. It is the Christian that claims free will is contained or allowed within the biblical pages.

I gave a prime example pointing out that it wasn't in the story of Peter denying the Jesus!, since the Jesus! said Peter would deny him 3 times. That's just one example of many. The notion of free will that Christians claim exists within the bible is a farce.

Stepping away from the Christian theist concept of omniscience and free will.

Our immediate and current actions may not be the result of free will, like having to crossing terrain, physical limitations, or that we do have to eat and sleep, etc. But, reflecting on those actions and what we did once and what we had little choice in during that first encounter, and will do, allows us to modify how we react to those relatively immutable aspects of physical existence we face. So I think we do have a modicum of free will in that respect.

But, no matter how we may choose to traverse or encounter something in the future, and even currently, if it's a mountain, for instance, we still have to cross it, or go around it, or dig a tunnel through it. If we still must go from point A to B and if the mountain or crossing a river is a part of that point A to B trip, we have little free will in that respect.

That's my general view concerning free will on the earth at large, we have very little.

Returning to the Christian theist concept of free will; Once the Jesus! had said Peter would deny him 3 times, how do you suppose Peter had free will?

Can you explain how he had free will without making imagined assertions and just go by the biblical story?

Remember, the Jesus! said it would be so, it was a prophecy at that very instant.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533982 May 14, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. for gays, it's quite normal ..
Yes, I know.

Perhaps our differences make us stronger, no?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533983 May 14, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a gay as your friend? How uncool.
Nah. He's good at picking out drapes...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533984 May 14, 2013
scaritual wrote:
No, you're remembering what you think you thought I said. I said it was an "instruction book", and you compared it to a drivers manual.
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
Let's look...

RiversideRedneck wrote:
It ain't an "instruction book". It doesn't teach you how to be a good Christian all on its on. It's a starting point only. Look at it like a driver's manual.
-In that the Bible doesn't teach you everything you need to know about Christianity, just like a drivers manual doesn't teach you everything you need to know about driving.

You read posts like you read the Bible, with no context and no care to the meaning of each post. Try to pay attention.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533985 May 14, 2013
scaritual wrote:

You, the Christian says it's complicated.
Yes, and you the atheist said it's both simplistic and that nobody can understand it.

I still don't know what you mean by that.
I made the mistake in thinking you would understand that part, since I'd just said it was simple to understand. I forget how detailed I must be when interacting with you. If I don't, you run off in all directions.
I should have specified "Christian".
Just look at how much you misunderstood in this exchange.
You blame me for the misunderstanding? Of COURSE I misunderstood you, you're the one that said the Bible is both 'simplistic'*and*'impossible to understand'.

Now you attempt a backpedal....

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533986 May 14, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
That's pretty much all you ever have to say.
You are so convinced in your beliefs, scar. Prolly as convinced as I am in mine.

There's no possible way you can change my mind and likely no possible way I can change yours.

What's the point?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533987 May 14, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Soooo..You do NOT think man has free will?
And you think man does NOT have free-will because the God you don't believe exists didn't man him free-will?
You ever start to wonder what the heck you are even trying to accomplish any more when these are the arguments you bring forth?
Just saying
That believers are the ones trying to convince unbelievers that man has free will is just bizarre. If anything one would think it would be the other way around and people of faith saying everything is predetermined by God and unbelievers saying that isn't true, we all have free-will. But you guys are so out of arguments that this is where we are at
I am definitely not getting into knowing the future doesn't mean man doesn't have free-will charade. Nobody gets to live the same day twice and knowing the future doesn't eliminate free-will. If anybody left on Topix still believes otherwise, well to each their own.
And the Bible has hundreds of verses that common sense tell you we have free-will. As if it even needed to be spelled out?
Joshua 24:15
15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES
I think the atheists have talked themselves into not believing that we have free will because it alleviates humans of all of our wrongdoings and places the blame strictly in God's hands.

They don't want to blame people for our faults, they want to blame God.

They only want to thank humans for all of our accomplishments but not blame ourselves for our own faults.

They think that if there's no free will, it's all God's plan and God's fault.

Atheists? Agree? Disagree?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#533991 May 14, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>But don't you see the dilemma? if your threshold is the holocaust, another person's threshold could be...car accidents, or bank robberies, or an illness.
Well said. I was going to respond to Catcher, but you beat me to it.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#533992 May 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't suggest that a god should intervene "every time" people are about to "do bad things." But I do suggest that a god with any sense of decency, if he has the power, would at least intervene in extreme situations. Say, the holocaust?
To allow the holocaust to happen is no way to make our life "a test."
For starters we have no idea how many bigger holocaust may have been prevented. But even if the answer is none, this is how life is set up

We either have free-will or we don't. It isn't set up where we have free will over small things but the big things we don't

And you can't look at a situation as an individual thing. Do you know how many people God would have had to take free-will from to stop the Holocaust? And one is more than God will do. If God should go into the mind of Hitler and Goebbels and Goering and Boeman. He would have to take over the will of the Nazi high command and the soldiers.

Intervening to stop someone from doing something how? Kill them? Change their mind by taking free will? And then what, punish someone after for something they were going to do in the future but that God stopped?

And what about all the people Stalin killed? Or all the people killed mining for blood diamonds or in the slave trade?

There is no way to quantity at what point God should take free-will or prevent man from acting on his own accord and then hold him accountable at the end of life

We have a drop in the bucket of time on this Earth compared to eternity to make our own choices and deal with the consequences. God isn't going to give man free-will except for this or that and move humans around like robot chess-pieces.

We get one life, one test, and one opportunity to live the right way or the wrong way. After that God does ensure no evil or sin or crime or suffering. But that is the next life. There has to be a point man is responsible for his own actions. And the only way that can be is if he has free will to act

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