“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#533275 May 12, 2013
you do have beliefs. The supreme court says you have beliefs and calls what you're part of a religion. You can't change what you're a part of.
[QUOTE who="scaritual"]< quoted text>It isn't a belief. I don't have the belief the theist has that there is a deity.
That's all atheism is. An absence of theistic belief there are deities.
<quoted text>That's your theistic belief. Nothing more, you've stated that.
But, let's be clear.
You have nothing to prove that belief in a deity concerns an actual deity or entity. Your statement that you believe your deity exists carries the same weight as if you said you believe Superman exists - to other atheists, and theists,- that do not have the belief your deity exists.
<quoted text> So far you've said that I believe many things - since I don't have your theistic belief a deity exists - and you've said I have to believe what you say I do, absent your belief.
What do I as an atheist, or any atheist, believe?
Whether you want to admit it or not, you believe random and accidental forces made the air people and planets. Poof!. lol.

There is no other choice. You cannot say [I don't know] because then you would be saying you have never thought about philosophical questions such as "why am I here" and "what is my purpose" etc. Obviously you have thought of those questions rather deeply because you're on a philosophical and religious billboard discussing those issues. And you would know secular science does not support your beliefs and actually secular science is conceding what they thought they knew about where planets and humans come from there are more questions than answers.

So it is not important whether you think my beliefs carry weight or not. It's irrelevant what you think about my beliefs. It's your denial of your beliefs that is the issue. I don't deny my beliefs, you deny yours. You're lying to yourself. And I'm quite happy to throw that lie in your face.

“Bacon Bacon ”

Since: Dec 06

SW Burbs Chicago

#533277 May 12, 2013
Why Should Jesus Love Me? Because He chose me. Or did I choose Him? hmmmmmmm

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Rosa Winkel

Australia

#533278 May 12, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
You just admitted that you think everything went "poof" too.
You say everything has to have a beginning yet you claim your god has no beginning.
You're destroying your own argument.
If he's trying to insult u by using that word, I bet it washes off.
Rosa Winkel

Australia

#533279 May 12, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder, if I asked what people like Lawlest what they thought of the "correctional rape" happening in Africa, what would they answer?
I'm going to see.
I don't know what u mean, but it sounds bldy terrible.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#533280 May 12, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You were doing so well, then this:
"My main concern is, are the hurting other people? If the answer is NO then they barely show up on my radar with all the other problems in society"
Homosexuality isn't a problem.
It can be.
mike

AOL

#533281 May 12, 2013
TIM958 wrote:
Why Should Jesus Love Me? Because He chose me. Or did I choose Him? hmmmmmmm
Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Is the "key" love?
If you fail to love, then you're not considered holy without blame?

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#533282 May 12, 2013
it's [your job to prove God to yourself. And it quite easy. It's either 1. God created. or 2. Random accidental chaotic forces created air planets people. Those are the only two options you have. You chose option 2, which means you're a fool. Science does not support option number 2. Which only leaves option 1, GOD. I have plenty of scientific knowledge. You want to see how much scientific knowledge I have? see if you have the balls to use science to support any of your beliefs about where people or planets came from. Use the latest 21st century 2013 scientific studies to support ANY notion that science has a clue where planets or people originated from. And while you're at it, tell me what "things" Christians accept about what science says about where people and planets come from that I don't accept.
[QUOTE who="boooots"]<qu oted text>
You are telling me that the things that people believe, which have no evidence, are all true, trifecta1. Where do you want me to go with that? We are in the year 2013; almost half way through it actually. God is, the last I heard, still an entity that billions believe exists, but no one yet has proved. Also many people in the world do not believe in the God that you claim exists, but they do have a belief in some god or gods. Nobody knows if there is a god, at all.
Not to be insulting you, but do you have much education in science or even in the higher levels of any form of education, besides about the Bible, that is? Just wondering as you seem to be denying quite a few things that even most Christians accept, and have for a very long time, relating to what man knows about "real things".
I truly mean I do not want to insult you. I am not here to fight with anyone, but am really interested in these subjects, and also in understanding how and why people arrive at various ideas which they hold.
In my background, and with the people I have known in my lifetime, people believed in things to do with God and the Bible, because they were taught, not only to believe those things, but also that they must believe those things or suffer a most horrible fate when they die. For most people, the fear of that horrible fate stopped any further thoughts about whether or not what they had been taught was valid, or not.
Start hanging around better people. I'm not one of those people. EVERTHING in the bible is TRUE. I have been asking you for weeks to be specific in anything in the bible that has been proven false. So far all you have is a bunch of words. All hat, no cattle writer.

As far as a horrible fate when you die, useless discussing that now. I repeat before, that is an issue when the soul come before God. That not now because the body alive on earth. The only way the soul see God, is when the body die. So no use discussing that horrible fate when one die because you can only cross that bridge when you get there. I believe those that reject Jesus Christ in for that horrible eternal fate when they die, you think that myth. So what? what use argue about that now? that after death issue that can only be proven after death. So no use discussing that.

You don't have to feel sensitive about offending me. I not have no problem with insulting your beliefs. They deserved to be mocked and ridiculed in the public forum due their blatant unending stupidity. You free to write your opinions about Christianity to, no one stopping you.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#533283 May 12, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
It can be.
That's what 24 hour GayAway is for.

Side effects may include wet mouth.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#533284 May 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
.Random accidental chaotic forces created air planets people....
Prove it didn't.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

#533285 May 12, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for posting this.
((((((Chris)))))))) Your welcome <3

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

#533286 May 12, 2013
Thank youz ((((((Skom)))))))) and (((((Epi)))))))
for your poems <3

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#533287 May 12, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
But my main criticisms of America are that its government no longer works for its people or should be trusted, its people are deeply divided and hostile toward one another, it goes to war for profit on lies, the media are largely useless, the culture from reality TV to American Christianity to gun culture is unwholesome, incompetence is running amok as America continues failing at almost everything it attempts except in space, and America has abandoned posterity, which it will leave with suffocating debt, a crumbling infrastructure, and a warming planet.

I've got to add that I see no hope of any of that improving in the next several decades apart from the Christianity part. Maybe that's why I prefer to discuss it over the rest.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
you are very well read and well- educated, and highly logical and intelligent, criticAL reasoning skill exceptional and your posts are eloquently worded with counter that rarely can not be refuted.
Thanks you very kindly.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
.. I have not noticed my post(s) is inflamatory but i prefer you subtle ways of getting across to others.
Perhaps I was mistaken about your posting.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
many fear the US police state, that i can't blame you and others for it.
Yes, loss of freedoms is a problem for America and Americans.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
Like they say we all live in Dangerous times but i do think it goes way way back to inception of a nation
Perhaps.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#533288 May 12, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
our US were never a real democracy...correct me on this if wrong.
I don't know if you are wrong, but I think that America was a bona fide republic at one time, even in my lifetime. Not so much any more, at least not regarding the most important levels of government. Americans will decide some federal issues, and probably most local issues. But not the most important ones. I realized that democracy was dying in 2006 following the midterm elections where the Democrats took control of both houses in a mandate repudiating Bush, his wars, and his lies, and Nancy Pelosi's first words as the new Speaker were that impeachment was off the table. Then, Congress approved every nickel of Bush's war budget. There was no longer any hope of the people stopping those wars or Bush.

I realize that the hawks present will approve of that. But it really was an ominous sign. Once the people lose the power over government, I don't see how they can get it back.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#533289 May 12, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
I think Education is key, non violent approach is good way to reach population.
Educate in what way?

In my opinion, America is lost indefinitely to the corporatists, and if the American people can already be excluded from the governing process, and they can't prevail in revolution, they won't get it back short of it being returned as a gift. And I don't see that happening, either.

That means adapting to the new reality, which will be the one that serves corporate America. Expect ongoing losses of rights and freedoms, of the social safety net, of your earning ability, benefits and retirement plans - basically, the return of the middle class closer to serfdom. That serves business well. People work longer, harder and for less when they need their job and next paycheck to feed their families, and have little recourse but to keep the boss happy.

Expect the government to help the corporations to achieve that ability to exploit citizens like so much capital rather than allowing them to share as fully in the fruits of technology as they once had in the past. The bosses will be as much of the revenue generated as is possible without their employees starving or dying. After all, even cattle and machines cost a little in fuel, shelter and upkeep. Workers need no less, but should expect no more once the advances of progressivism that gave them a middle class, public health, and the like have all been rolled back.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#533290 May 12, 2013
mike wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks
Would you be hurt to find out jesus was human and the history of jesus the young man is missing for a reason?
Is there absolute power behind what you have to say about a GOD?
If what you have to say about a GOD is from a GOD, shouldn't it have an effect on all people?
I do believe that Jesus was human. So no that wouldn't hurt me.
No there is not absolute power behind what I have to say about a God.
If what I say about God is from God, it will effect people differently, due to their choice of what to do with it. If what I say about God is from God and it is dirrected toward someone specific, then that someone specific is who it will affect.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#533291 May 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
you do have beliefs. The supreme court says you have beliefs and calls what you're part of a religion. You can't change what you're a part of.
No, what you stated above is inaccurate. The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment.

The Supreme Court hasn't "declared" that atheism is a religion. For purposes of freedom of atheists to exist and conduct their lives as atheists, they are afforded the same protections.

You see, the issue and rulings were made because theists were attempting to prevent atheists from enjoying the full measure and protection that is guaranteed under the First Amendment.

That may come as a surprise to you, but most atheists and others not religious do not find that surprising at all.

Anyway, the KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY(2005) US Court of Appeals 7th Cir, states nicely and clearly why atheism is afforded protection according to the First Amendment, and clearly states that not only religion(S) qualify for for those protections, but nonreligion qualifies too.

Quoting:
No. 04-1914
JAMES J. KAUFMAN,
Plaintiff-Appellant,
v.
GARY R. MCCAUGHTRY, et al.,
Defendants-Appellees.
__________
Appeal from the United States District Court
for the Western District of Wisconsin.
No. 03-C-027-C—Barbara B. Crabb, Chief Judge.
__________

SUBMITTED OCTOBER 26, 2004Œ—DECIDED AUGUST 19, 2005
__________

The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions(...)The Establishment Clause itself says only that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” but the Court understands the reference to religion to include what it often calls “nonreligion.” In McCreary County, it described the touchstone of Establishment Clause analysis as “the principle that the First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion.”

As the Court put it in Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985): At one time it was thought that this right [referring to the right to choose one’s own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all.

But whether atheism is a “religion” for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture. The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a “way of life,” even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns.

2113; Charles, 348 F.3d at 610-11. But the defendants have not answered Kaufman’s argument that by accommodating some religious views, but not his, they are promoting the favored ones.(...) Kaufman’s request cannot survive the first part of the Lemon test. See Lemon, 403 U.S. at 612-13; Books, 235 F.3d at 301. We therefore vacate the grant of summary judgment in the defendants’ favor on Kaufman’s claim under the Establishment Clause and remand for further proceedings.
__________

End Quote.

It's easy to see that atheism hasn't been declared a religion, only that it and other non-religions, are afforded the same freedoms that religions have.

As the court aptly stated, "the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#533292 May 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Whether you want to admit it or not, you believe random and accidental forces made the air people and planets. Poof!. lol.
No. You're wrong.
trifecta1 wrote:
There is no other choice. You cannot say [I don't know]
Sure I can. You are a gnostic theist. You claim to know.

I'm an agnostic atheist, which has absolutely nothing to do with cosmology, evolution, gas prices, or cornbread and other things not related to atheism. What is atheism?

Within atheism, there is no claim or statement made concerning cosmology, evolution etc... Atheists don't have the theist belief there is a deity or deities. There is no more or less to being an atheist than that.
trifecta1 wrote:
because then you would be saying you have never thought about philosophical questions such as "why am I here" and "what is my purpose" etc.
I'm perfectly happy and satisfied in not having answers to those question. Those questions are irrelevant to me.

The clarify, as far as those questions go, I'm fine with knowing that I am here to live, and my purpose is to live, and live, I do.

I am fine with that and require no more.

That may be difficult for you to understand or assimilate.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#533293 May 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Obviously you have thought of those questions rather deeply because you're on a philosophical and religious billboard discussing those issues.
Yeah, and I'm good. Those questions aren't an issue for myself. I understand they are most likely a daily concern for yourself.
trifecta1 wrote:
And you would know secular science does not support your beliefs and actually secular science is conceding what they thought they knew about where planets and humans come from there are more questions than answers.
You still have not answered my question(S). What are my beliefs? How is it that you know what I believe?

Must I believe what you declare I do, since I don't believe as you do?
trifecta1 wrote:
So it is not important whether you think my beliefs carry weight or not.
True. Unless your beliefs somehow interfere with the exercise of my freedom.

Then it matters.
trifecta1 wrote:
It's irrelevant what you think about my beliefs. It's your denial of your beliefs that is the issue.
Again, you're the one attempting to declare what it is I believe(poof?, nothing?, air? what do you mean by that?).

Then you say I deny my beliefs if I don't agree with what you have declared my beliefs are.
trifecta1 wrote:
I don't deny my beliefs, you deny yours. You're lying to yourself. And I'm quite happy to throw that lie in your face.
You're throwing nothing.

That is the foundation of your creation myth.

Nothing.
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#533294 May 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
it's [your job to prove God to yourself. And it quite easy. It's either 1. God created. or 2. Random accidental chaotic forces created air planets people. Those are the only two options you have.
The problem with Christianity is it creates a binary thinking in wichh there are two options.

Either "our God" or no God. So we have to choose between ridiculous ideas of a so-called forgiving God that can forgive those that reject him, a "humane" God that tortures people for all eternity. A God that rises from the dead, even though dead is permanent by definition.

Christianity gives us only two choices. Either rape rational thought or be an enemy of God.

Well there is a third option: Christianity is bull

There are more than two options. For instance Chaos is God. I know this concept does not fit in the narrow Christian mind, but then the understanding of Christians can hardly be taken as measurement.

The idea that God has a plan is philosophically unsound. It would mean God has wants. How can God have wants if he can fulfil any want instantaneously? Than he would not be imperfect. If he is an imperfect being, he can not be God etc.

The only reason God is given a will ans plan is so rulers can make their people believe they have to follow this plan, which means do what he want. Be submissive and make war on his enemies in the name of God.

The Romans were superb politicians. They knew how to manipulate the masses. They had to, it was a slave society in which the rich families owned everything. They needed this psychological tool to keep all these exploited people in check. They will revolt to humans, so let God keep them subdued. Let God tell them they are sheep that must listen to their pastors.

And people like you, still say beeeeeeeeeh

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#533295 May 12, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text>ADD! I wish i had you skillset --- reasoning and intellect...but i lack. I do think you do a disservice by not educating American populace it. So?
Thanks once again.

As for educating people, I tried my level best my last many years in the States, and even for a time after I left. My Topix posting was mostly political in those days.

Here are several political posts that you might find interesting or helpful. I'd have PM'ed them to you,but you don't have a permanent account. Feel free to use whatever parts of them that you can.

The simple fact is that I don't really want to do that any more. I find it all so dismal and hopeless. I really don't like to revisit these issues much, although I do from time to time, as I am now.

My advice? Either accept the new reality, or move on. I don't think I can help Americans more than I can by saying that.

The American Christian here - mostly Conservatives - are going to hate me even more if they look at this stuff.

I'd be interested in your feedback concerning any of these.

[1] http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TSBMT04...
[2] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[2] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[4] http://www.topix.com/forum/us/politics/TSQ9LF...
[5] http://www.topix.com/forum/us/politics/TSQ9LF...
[6] http://www.topix.com/forum/military/army/TL1L...
[7] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[8] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[9] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... and the next post
[10] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... and http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[11] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[12] http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T3FBGUC...
[13] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[14] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[15] http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
[16] http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
[17] http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
[18] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... [written to the Dimwit!]
[19] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[20] http://www.topix.com/forum/city/springfield-m...
[21] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[22] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

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