Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#531376 May 8, 2013
hick-up wrote:
I don't buy that eternal torment stuff. It's just not my idea of a loving Creator. Annihilation/eternal seperation ...I don't know. But to a caveman, death by fire was probably the worst way to go ...the most agonizing by far.(I can't say I disagree with them on that score) And seeing the earth vomit fire and molten rock probably scared the hell out of them. If I wanted to change someones thinking, I might use that kind of fear based scenario.
World wide flood ...
What did they know of the world?
Dipping into the Bible and taking out the bits that you think are relevant to you is fine. I guess the problems arise when people try and impose what they think are the relevant scriptures onto others.

I won't deny that there is some good stuff in the Bible but that's also true of the Quran, Gita and other holy books. It's safe to say that morality is not something that is confined within any one religion.
hick-up wrote:
Even today there exists much unexplained phenomenon. But to a caveman, everyday was an adventure I'm sure.
Yes, there are observable phenomenon that we can't explain.

Although I'm sure we'll get there and I'm convinced that science is the best method we have for providing real and tangible explanations of our reality.
hick-up wrote:
But what is progress? We still dress in furs and skins. We adorn ourselves with pretty rocks. We stack up rock and create dwellings. We like to think we've harnessed the power of the atom ...Chernobyl says otherwise.
That's always the way with technology. Despite our mastery pf electricity, people still get electrocuted. A lot of these incidents can be put down to stupidity, carelessness, cost-cutting, etc. However, we generally tend to learn from our mistakes.
hick-up wrote:
The plagues of Egypt ...
Something scared the hell out of those people ...Passover, blood on your doorpost ...they still honor that ritual. I can't explain it, but I believe something went on.
I'd say that the Egyptians were extremely superstitious, quite possibly in ways we can hardly imagine. They were fixated with death and a priest could probably give thousands of people the heebie-jeebies by mumbling some sort of local ju-ju.
hick-up wrote:
The Garden of Eden ...
What a beautiful place this earth must of been before man and his distructive ways ...sigh! Creature/Evolution ...I find it mind boggling.
Yeah, we're doing a good job destroying our planet.

We exceeded the earth's ability to feed us without chemical fertilizer nearly a century ago. I also seem to recall reading about how we're close to exhausting our earth's phosphorous sources as well as losing water for irrigation.

This, of course, is a problem that can be addressed with logic and reason. What we don't need is to continue "going forth and multiplying". You know, breeding like animals and quite possibly, dying like animals.
hick-up wrote:
Again, I don't consider mankind the highest order of life. Just look at the distruction a simple virus can cause. And as long as man wages war against his brother, we will live for want of something better ...something greater than ourselves. Whether some chose to admit it or not.
Agreed. We're certainly not the "crown of creation" that so many believers think we are and despite what the Bible says, we don't have dominion over all the earth's creatures.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#531377 May 8, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that you and I want the same end result for the gay community...I think we just have different methods of getting there.
Can you explain further to me what you mean by the above statement?
When I read it...it sounded eerily similar to how some sound when they say...
"Gays can do what they want as long as they keep it behind closed doors."
"Closet Christians" vs "Closet Gays"...neither one sounds like equality to me.
Maybe I am not understanding you IANS. I tend to view the world with the possibility that we can all be a little kinder...a little more tolerent...a little more peaceful. I know...I am probably also a little naive.
""Gays can do what they want as long as they keep it behind closed doors."
"Closet Christians" vs "Closet Gays"...neither one sounds like equality to me."

not that we're on speaking terms, Annie, but did you know that in most public schools it's allowed to have a LGBT club but not a Christian because of the seperation of church and state rules?

also, did you know that there are legal battles over the rights to hand out Bibles and Christian literature at gay pride events? can you imagine the reverse, where any court would even entertain the idea of a case involving trying to ban gay rights literature?

yep, hold on to your butt cuz "as it was in the days of sodom so shall it be in the end" Jesus

“Nature--The Only God We Need”

Since: May 13

Christianity :TheGreatest Evil

#531378 May 8, 2013
mr universal wrote:
He loves me because He knows i'm nothing without Him
I understand; he's your crutch.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#531379 May 8, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a little side note in history, you've probably heard of it - The holocaust.
I'd bet you think the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and that's where it ended. I'd also bet you'd be surprised to know(based on the ignorance of your posts) that there was actually a total of 17 million people murdered by the Nazis...
The Nazis also targeted some religious groups,(about 2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses perished in the concentration camps); they were held for political and ideological reasons. Thousands of Christian clergy were killed by the Nazis, including some who had a Jewish background, as in the case of Edith Stein. In some countries Roman Catholic bishops and even Catholics themselves had openly protested and attacked Nazi policies. For instance, in the Netherlands and Poland, where bishops and priests had protested the deportation of Jews, the clergy was either threatened with deportation themselves and kept in custody (as in the case of German bishop Clemens von Galen), or directly deported to concentration camps (as in the cases of the Dutch Carmelite priest Titus Brandsma and Polish Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, who was later canonized). The Catholic Church was particularly suppressed in Poland: between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 members (18%) of the Polish clergy, were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[27] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland it was even more harsh: churches were systematically closed and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government. Eighty per cent of the Catholic clergy and five bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; 108 of them are regarded as blessed martyrs.[27] Religious persecution was not confined to Poland: in Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.[27] Some dissenting German Protestant clergy, such as those who founded the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, were also persecuted. The Baha'i Faith, which teaches as its doctrine, the unity of humanity, was formally banned in the Third Reich.
https://www.google.com/search...
There more. Educate yourself.
I take what you say however we were talking about German Christians and not Poles, Dutch, etc. They may well have spoken out against Hitler, seeing as they'd just been invaded. However, the question was why the German population (which was predominantly Christian) didn't speak out against Hitler and not the Poles, Dutch and other nations steamrollered by Hitler.

Were the 2000 JWs Germans? I don't know but they were Christians (although a lot of people on Topix would dispute that). In any event, it seems that they weren't killed for speaking out against Hitler but as your post says, for political and ideological reasons.

Skombolis (hope I got that right) mentioned how difficult it would have been for German Christians to speak out for fear of reprisals.

However, even when there's no risk of reprisals, we know from the Iraq war that the majority of Christians didn't speak out against the slaughter of tens of thousands of Iraqis.

“Nature--The Only God We Need”

Since: May 13

Christianity :TheGreatest Evil

#531380 May 8, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
there are non-believers here like yourself and a couple of others who do not go on the attack against our belief IN Christ by calling our God an imaginary deity and speaking all manner of ignorant and blasphemous statements against our faith, but most of the unbelievers here do so sadly enough
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You have your nerve.
I feel free to use language to describe Christians that is at least as strong as your bible uses to describe unbelievers, which includes the words and phrases like fool, vile, corrupt, wicked, dark, liar, the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. Your beautiful book also implies that not one of us is any good . not even one - and that it is appropriate to throw us into fire while still conscious.
As for blasphemy, tell your pathetic god to stick his problem with unbelievers up his vile, corrupt ass.
You want respect for your religion, huh? How is that possible given what it says about the people you want respect from?
<quoted text>
Our problem with you is about the same. Deal with it, just like we have.
Do you really think that we should treat your god with more respect than you treat gays and atheists? I don't.
==========
And I encourage others to think about why they do if they do. Christian homophobia and atheophobia should be matched with equally uninhibited judgments about your religion and your god. Why not? Just saying that the Christian god is a mythical character is blasphemous and offensive to most of them, so you hardly need to worry about doing that. You will.
*OO*-RAH!
Name appears on post

Kingston, PA

#531381 May 8, 2013
You're all getting saved. Don't worry about that. The only issue you should really be concerned with is the relationship you have with God. If God is anything like we are, then you KNOW God picks favorites. But you'll all be saved.

“Nature--The Only God We Need”

Since: May 13

Christianity :TheGreatest Evil

#531382 May 8, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
And thats the problem, people just keep making excuses for him. He said himself he needed 3 years, the fools gave him 8.........
And we're stuck with the bill.
Name appears on post

Kingston, PA

#531383 May 8, 2013
Who knows the nature of God though, really? That's why I said "if." But you'll all be saved.

“Educating the uneducated”

Since: Aug 12

Montreal

#531384 May 8, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Afraid to answer?
Do you think that political public speeches are a good way to learn the truth about a politician?
No, but that doesn't change the fact that even the ones closest to his level of power confirmed he was a Christian. He was also baptized, wasn't he? Well, that's how you judge the number of Christians there are; there's no national poll asking peoples' religious beliefs.

Once again, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I won't reply to another post by you on this subject because I'm tired of having to explain to you over and over again that you can't dismiss facts just because you don't like them.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#531385 May 8, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>true thing. Knowing Jesus Christ spiritually, is the whole point of Christianity.
You sure about that?

The New Testament clearly states that we will be judged by our works.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#531386 May 8, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
""Gays can do what they want as long as they keep it behind closed doors."
"Closet Christians" vs "Closet Gays"...neither one sounds like equality to me."
not that we're on speaking terms, Annie, but did you know that in most public schools it's allowed to have a LGBT club but not a Christian because of the seperation of church and state rules?
also, did you know that there are legal battles over the rights to hand out Bibles and Christian literature at gay pride events? can you imagine the reverse, where any court would even entertain the idea of a case involving trying to ban gay rights literature?
yep, hold on to your butt cuz "as it was in the days of sodom so shall it be in the end" Jesus
This is why I say that I might be naive...it is also why I seldom communicate with you.

I defended your right to not have to worship in private...compared it to wanting to keep gays in the closet. Yet you come back with me with this crap.

It is just like you whining that no one stood up when things were said about your children...you totally dismissed that I had.

Your need for persecution points out weighs your reading comprehension.

“Nature--The Only God We Need”

Since: May 13

Christianity :TheGreatest Evil

#531387 May 8, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Stick to Canadien Politics Boots......... You aint got a clue about how how far Obama is in over his head..........
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
You think everyone else is as ignorant as you are of other countries?
Boots and I know very well what's going on in the US.
Just because you're self-centered and don't care to learn a thing or two about other countries doesn't mean everyone else is.
We know our country better than *you* know our country. We're the ones living in it, experiencing it, and suffering in it on account of that no good socialist scumbag who blames everybody else for his own failures and inadequacies.

The only thing that stops me from advocating his immediate impeachment and imprisonment is this pair of words: "President Biden."

Your ISP location shows Montreal, so I feel confident in saying we don't care about your country, which apparently is known best for clubbing baby seals and its mediocrity.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#531388 May 8, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
These posts from Ham to me are bitter sweet. Reminds me of our MOTN meetings…the things that we shared…the elderly frail Christian and the little heathen…I believe it was the way that life was intended. Two people that were able to put aside our differences and find not only our commonalities but how we could help each other and make our world a little better.
It is bitter however…what happened in the end…how there were some that would not stand for that friendship. When they couldn’t get to me…they turned to this little old man…warning him how vile and evil I was…simply because I was not a Christian.
To make a long story short…
I walked away from that friendship…I could not bear what it was doing to Ham. Every time that I think of Ham…I am reminded of that…I am saddened…and I admit…still angry.
I am normally a forgiving person. It took me a while to forgive my husband for the things that he did to my children and me…but I eventually did. I have not been able to forgive those who took it upon themselves to destroy a friendship between a lonely little old Christian man and the little heathen that just tried to lessen some of that loneliness.
Faith for some people can be a beautiful aspect of their life as was in the case for Ham. For others it manifests itself in a vile hateful and destructive manner. They use it for divisiveness…a way to belittle and denigrate those that they oppose.
I don’t know…just don’t think that is the way that it was intended…
Thank you IMO…that bench…that Ham sat upon and poured out his heart upon…is a symbol of what I believe. We can and should find our commonalities instead of our differences…at least in my opinion.
I don’t know…just don’t think that is the way that it was intended…
It wasn't.
4000(+) years ago, this planet had a society that operated on a central principle of truth, justice, and fairness, individually, and as a whole. The father taught it(as a way of life) to his son,who then taught it to his son, etc., etc....in the expectation that each would surpass the generation before it in the excellence of it's application. It was a "spiritual and physical" combination toward the quest for harmony and perfection of man and society, and his environment. Sadly, it was not accepted worldwide, and was lost to barbarians in antiquity. I think that Jesus may have tried to revive that essence among men, and correct wrong teachings. You see what happened as a result.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#531389 May 8, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Were they killed because they were Christians ?
By Nazis? Yes.
In the USA we have millions of Christians imprisoned. We also executed a few hundred.
Going to call that religious persecution ?
No. America doesn't condone or practice religious persecution.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#531390 May 8, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so fast.
Let's not move the goalposts.
You suggested that homosexuals cannot complain that their rights have been taken away, because they never had them in the first place.
I countered that they are being denied rights guaranteed by the Constitution, and that your (bogus) statement could be equally applied to slaves, prior to emancipation.
My point was that, to be consistent, you could equally claim that slaves didn't have rights "taken away from them," because they never had them.
Bullshit. That's got to be some sort of fallacy.

"You like chocolate cake so you must like chocolate bars."

You're wrong, dude.

Blacks are black because they're born black.

Gays are gay because they choose to be.

I don't put blacks and gays in the same "minority" category, not in the least.
Name appears on post

Kingston, PA

#531391 May 8, 2013
"The problem not only with fundamentalist Christians but with Republicans in general is not that they act on blind faith, without thinking. The problem is that they are incorrigible doubters with an insatiable appetite for Evidence. What they get off on is not Believing, but in having their beliefs tested. That's why their conversations and their media are so completely dominated by implacable bogeymen: marrying gays, liberals, the ACLU, Sean Penn, Europeans and so on. Their faith both in God and in their political convictions is too weak to survive without an unceasing string of real and imaginary confrontations with those people -- and for those confrontations, they are constantly assembling evidence and facts to make their case.

But here's the twist. They are not looking for facts with which to defeat opponents. They are looking for facts that ensure them an ever-expanding roster of opponents. They can be correct facts, incorrect facts, irrelevant facts, it doesn't matter. The point is not to win the argument, the point is to make sure the argument never stops. Permanent war isn't a policy imposed from above; it's an emotional imperative that rises from the bottom. In a way, it actually helps if the fact is dubious or untrue (like the Swift-boat business), because that guarantees an argument. You're arguing the particulars, where you're right, while they're arguing the underlying generalities, where they are.

Once you grasp this fact, you're a long way to understanding what the Hannitys and Limbaughs figured out long ago: These people will swallow anything you feed them, so long as it leaves them with a demon to wrestle with in their dreams."
—Matt Taibbi

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#531392 May 8, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, Dr Phil.
(nice diversion, btw)
No diversion at all. It is a response to your blatant disregard for all but the one part of the whole of the material, that you might be able to obfuscate to possibly support your preconceived notion of who and what Hitler actually was.
You simply refuse to equate all the information "doctor phil"...so it is useless to even discuss anything with you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#531393 May 8, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
It is my understanding that "the church" is the body of Christ. Are you not a part of that? Or do you see "the church" as the physical building that one chooses to or not to worship in?
IMO another definition of "the church" is the political and financial institute behind most denominations. I'll leave it at that.
We seem to be on different pages in this thread when defining "the church"...either that...I am just not getting it...I do get confused at times.
I see "the church" as "a church".

A more accurate translation of the word "church" would be "assembly" because it was originally used to refer to a group of people who had been called out to a meeting.

It was also used as a synonym for the word synagogue, which also means to "come together".

There is enormous diversity from church to church around the world.

When IANS writes "your church", it's kind of like a racist bigot saying "you blacks" - as in we're all the same.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#531394 May 8, 2013
Ashelah wrote:
I'm sorry Tri but how on Earth can faith be pre-requisite for evidence?
Scenario:
"I have had nothing to do with you for a very long time and did in fact abandon you but based on you looking unwell tonight, I believe you are unfit to mother your children and will therefore keep both them (against their will) and your car until you get a Psychiatric evaluation."
Some random a hole.
***
You think that would stand up in a Court of Law?
That's kidnapping and grand theft.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#531395 May 8, 2013
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I take what you say however we were talking about German Christians and not Poles, Dutch, etc. They may well have spoken out against Hitler, seeing as they'd just been invaded. However, the question was why the German population (which was predominantly Christian) didn't speak out against Hitler and not the Poles, Dutch and other nations steamrollered by Hitler.
Were the 2000 JWs Germans? I don't know but they were Christians (although a lot of people on Topix would dispute that). In any event, it seems that they weren't killed for speaking out against Hitler but as your post says, for political and ideological reasons.
Skombolis (hope I got that right) mentioned how difficult it would have been for German Christians to speak out for fear of reprisals.
However, even when there's no risk of reprisals, we know from the Iraq war that the majority of Christians didn't speak out against the slaughter of tens of thousands of Iraqis.
Oh geez.... "slaughter"?!

You're nuts.

I see no reason to converse with you.

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