Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527677 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What historical evidence did you offer? What historical evidence could there be of what the bible says? All evidence for that would be in the bible.
Why would you think that, Doc?

Some stories from the bible can be pretty vague or lacking in enough information to understand them fully and you have to look outside the bible for answers.

Let's put it in medical terms, for you.

Let's say you're reading a medical book about the common cold. And let's say it tells you to offer your patient acetaminophen, but offers you no solid information on what acetaminophen is. What do you do? It's not in the book you're reading.....

You get another book.

The bible is the same way, in some of it's books. But you seem to disagree, you think "all evidence for that would be in the bible" and you need not look anywhere else to get more info on what you're studying. That's why your ignorant if the bible and that why I say you read it with an elementary level.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#527678 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That opinion right there is why you get it wrong, IANS.
You read the bible as if it's "just a collection of vague, erroneous and self-contradictory claims". You too possess an extreme confirmation bias.
Thanks for playing.
Agreed.

And most Christians read it as a history and science book.

Both miss the whole point.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#527679 Apr 30, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Again your lack of any understanding
INSULT #1
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text>you have no desire to change or even cognizant of the fact that you need to
.. this is incorrect. Without change, there isn't growth. To become a better person requires change ..
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> I don't have any reason NOT to believe him,
.. I do ..
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> your wicked nature merely allows you not to, and the ability to "grasp" is a handicap that you suffer from.
INSULT #3
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> and so you take the testimony of a believer and accuse him of having homosexual tendencies that he is trying to suppress,
.. what? Chris has admitted to homosexual tendencies in this forum ..
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> and the ability to "grasp" is a handicap that you suffer from.
.. today, you claimed G_O_D was ignorant. That's an opinion, a belief. Doesn't everyone have a right to their opinion and belief? Are you proposing a rule change wherein your opinions are golden calves and nobody else should have an opinion ??..

.. if you have the right to believe G_O_D is ignorant, wouldn't I have the same right to reject Clearwater's story ??..
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text>Also a gay man or woman, believe it or not, do not have to be engage in a direct homosexual relationship for that spirit to be within them, it works counter productively to the spirit of God like all sin, but as I said before.........one can be delivered from it if they truly desire,.
.. again: if a homosexual wants to change,(s)he can if the desire, self-will and control is strong enough. It does not require the intervention of a God nor does it change their identity as a homosexual ..
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text>but again this post to you may be a waste of time as per your inability to 'grasp'.
INSULT #4

.. you can't resist, can you ??..

P.S. You forgot to answer my question - why must God 'change' someone's identity? Wouldn't that mean God had it wrong in the first place?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#527680 Apr 30, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Thank you for the testimony my friend, when you think about it at times, it is astounding the way the power of God works through others to reach us, and your dedication is not misunderstood on this end in the least as I am a witness myself to the very subject at hand, only the truly Blessed of God will understand these matters.
Peace and Blessings.
Lawest, I respect your right to post as you wish here or anywhere else you post. However, in the spirit of posting in a discussion it would seem that all posters would speak in the same language to be understood by all other posters.

Clearly non-believers do not speak the language of the "Truly Blessed" (personally I don't believe it exists, but that is beside the point), so in posting to a non-believer regarding a point on topic which you wish to make to them, I can see the only way to do that is to state in in language that he will understand.

Since we don't speak in the language of the "Truly Blessed" then we do not hear and understand what you are telling us (I do understand what you think you mean, but I still don't believe it, and that is still beside the point).

If believers are here only to talk to each other to support each other with biblical or prayer greetings, etc., then they are not here to discuss a topic, but for mutual support. Support groups are good, but they don't work if they break down into debates.

This is a debate here, or it would seem that the topic is one that can be debated. I am assuming that the question asked is asking for why Jesus should love me, when I am such and such, or I do so and so, etc.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#527681 Apr 30, 2013
Lacez wrote:
I'm liking your posts from the past few days more than those in the past. I especially enjoyed your post regarding neuroscience.
Thanks.

There is a difference between knowledge, which are the ideas that derive from observing reality and which can be applied to life to effect better outcomes, and the fluff of the bible, which is sterile however deeply you examine it.

A knowledge of neuroscience, for example, is rewarded by using it to make accurate medical diagnoses. Diseases correctly identified can often be treated to some benefit - people may feel less pain or nausea, or function a little better, or live a little longer. At a minimum, a better prediction what to expect is possible.

What can bible study yield that is anything like that? Nothing at all, which is why I rejected Riverside Redneck's comparison of the benefit of studying to neuroscience to studying his bible.

I also reject his claim that any amount of studying of the bible can produce any knowledge at all, let alone a deeper understanding with more study.
Lacez wrote:
I remember something extremely stupid said to me once: "You are an atheist because you wish to rebel against god." Yeah, I'm atheist because I want to rebel against the thing that doesn't exist.
Many say that there is no such thing as an atheist. They don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around the idea that we don't see a god everywhere, one that they consider self-evident and undeniable. They assume that we must believe, but are rebelling. What can you say to such a person after your denial and explanation are rejected out of hand?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#527682 Apr 30, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Again your lack of any understanding is made manifest with this post, you have no desire to change or even cognizant of the fact that you need to, and so you take the testimony of a believer and accuse him of having homosexual tendencies that he is trying to suppress, I don't have any reason NOT to believe him, your wicked nature merely allows you not to, and the ability to "grasp" is a handicap that you suffer from.
Also a gay man or woman, believe it or not, do not have to be engage in a direct homosexual relationship for that spirit to be within them, it works counter productively to the spirit of God like all sin, but as I said before.........one can be delivered from it if they truly desire, but again this post to you may be a waste of time as per your inability to 'grasp'.
You provide a perfect example of the damage that religion inflicts on society, and the pain it inflicts on individuals.

Fortunately, there has been a seismic change over the past few years, and you troglodytes will quickly be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Jason Collins's statement yesterday, and the support he has received from his fellow NBA players, is an indication of the monumental shift that is taking place.

Insults are all you will have left, and but for your fellow homophobes, they will not be well received.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527683 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot to cite your source, which I stumbled onto at http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm , and which contradicts you. Where does your bible say clearly and unambiguously that it is not referring to a physical dome or vault? Nowhere. But it does do the opposite, as your own source attests:
"If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing ... Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth ...[Isaiah 40:22].”... Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk."
Here's more evidence against your position :
Genesis 1:6 says, "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
Job 37:18 says, "Have you with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten mirror?"
Sorry, but you're wrong. Your bible does not support your claim that the vault or dome referred to in it is not a physical structure.
And as we just saw, all of your extra study of it has produced no knowledge. Your pronouncements of what it means are your opinions, and not very good ones at that.
You're quoting a flat earth website to back your position, which coincidentally coincides with what atheist websites say. Imagine that.

You're agreeing with young earth creationists that have interpreted "waters above the firmament" as an actual 'water canopy' that used to surround the earth.

That idea doesn't add up. I find it strange that you'd agree. The reason I disagree is because of what is said in this passage:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.(Genesis 1:14-16)

This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars are IN the firmament. Therefore, applying the rules of grammar and logic, those waters that are above the firmament must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars. That means these waters are above the visible cosmos. For some this is a hard pill to swallow, but that is exactly what the Bible is saying.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527684 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:

You read them as if they are correct. That's a confirmation bias, and an error.
You read them as if they're incorrect and mythological. That's also a confirmation bias and an error.
Your bible supports a belief that there is a physical dome across the sky, and that the earth sits on pillars.
No it doesn't, I've shown you that several times.

You're choosing to ignore it.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm again:
"When I first became interested in the flat-earthers in the early 1970s, I was surprised to learn that flat-earthism in the English-speaking world is and always has been entirely based upon the Bible."
There you go. Your bible can be used to argue that the earth is flat.
Sure it can. BY ignorant people TO ignorant people.

Like you. You believe without a doubt that the flat earthers are right.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527685 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:

None of your bible's mythology is literally true.
Confirmation bias, indeed.
The god in it is a fiction representing the laws of nature as understood by primitive men,
Major confirmation bias.
and it's resurrection and rebirth are well known metaphors for spring and the return of growth.
Oh good, it's "known".....

By who?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527686 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are. It began with your use of the phrase "deceitful worm"
Why don't you know that? Did you suffer an alcoholic blackout.
I was just stating fact.

You ARE a deceitful worm.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#527687 Apr 30, 2013
I find the word "unbeliever" to be offensive.

It is usually used against other theists and is simply saying "Your beliefs are shit, mine are perfect."

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527688 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your opinion. You have not established that the rise in Protestantism accounts for the attrition of Catholics. In fact, the opposite can be shown. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Mexi... :
"Roman Catholics are 82.7% of the total population, down from 96% in 1970." That's a drop of about 13.3%. The pie chart at the top of the same page indicates that the fraction of non-Catholic Christians is 9.7%. Even if that number were 0% in 1970, it still only accounts for 2/3 of the lost Catholics.
This is the kind of thing that you don't do. You just blurt out unsupported opinions.
<quoted text>
Thank you for your opinion.
The same pie chart contradicts you.
And what you do is find the words you want and copy/paste them to 'support' you. But you fail to keep reading. From your link:

"Protestantism is also on the rise as it offers a less legalistic and hierarchical version of Christianity"

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527689 Apr 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. Your contribution has been added to the bottom of the list :
REASONS GIVEN ON TOPIX WHY SKEPTICS AREN'T QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THE BIBLE
[1] I took the scripture out of context. It means something other than what it says (context and implied meaning never supplied).
[2] I don't understand literary criticism
[3] It's an allegory, not literal.
[4] It's literal, not an allegory.
[snip]
[25] You have no reference in the knowledge of God to know our experience in Christ Jesus. The Word has to be embedded in one's heart, and that can come from God only.
[26] You're asking me to give you a four year bible study course on Topix?
[27] Dont fall in the trap of being a one verse wonder. You need to understand the passage and true meaning of the verse.
[28] You're only making a fool out of yourself trying to argue over something that you are not Blessed to understand.
That's three more in less than a week!
Riverside Redneck was incredulous when I claimed that I compiled this list from the comments by people like you - number 28 - and him - numbers 26 and 27 - over the years.
"Deceitful little worm" is very appropriate for you, as I've never written; "Dont fall in the trap of being a one verse wonder. You need to understand the passage and true meaning of the verse."

You're a liar.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527690 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I agree with what you're implying, that most of the people in BC were pretty ignorant. That's why I do believe that the bible is inspired by the hand of God. What other explanation is there?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
What other explanation is there? It's obvious that the bible was written by those ignorant people. It's replete with errors born of that ignorance, which is why people like you who have the benefit of modern scientific understanding are forced to call it allegory.
I didn't say the men that wrote the bible were ignorant, did I?

You deceitful little worm.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527691 Apr 30, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
You know as we'll as I do.
Ok man. Ok.

I can read your mind - I'm just not gonna admit it....

O_o

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527692 Apr 30, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
It's absurd to think that the story of Adam and Eve is real.
Well with THAT kind of argument you may just enlist a few followers.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527693 Apr 30, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Learning what?
About your mythical, magical one and only true god?
Seriously, RR, you shouldn't be making statements like that.
You believe Adam and Eve were real.
Learning that God isn't mythical, as you claim.

Learning that Adam & Eve were real people, as you deny.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527694 Apr 30, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
According to him, believing fairy tales are real is "learning."
I've never said that. You're lying, too.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#527697 Apr 30, 2013
high end wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO!
Satan was an invention in Babylonia during the mid 1st millenia, BCE.
Jesus of the bible was not from Babylonia.
HA HA !

Ok, man.

Because the 1st century BC happened before the 5th century BC, right?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#527698 Apr 30, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>Of course my point of view is not only did Jesus exist, but Jesus is the Son of God.
So lets look at it from your point of view, what if the [probability] of an historical Jesus was a fact. Then can you make the probability that everything written of Jesus he did? why can't you make that probability that everything written of Jesus in the bible is true?
Is it because you do not want to consider the consequences to your eternal soul if you allow your mind to adjust to the probability of an historical Jesus that did what the bible said he did thus making him Yeshua? If Jesus can be [probable]to you, why can't his words and actions be [probable] as well writer.
One of the reasons that the words of Jesus cannot be probable is the simple fact that human beings, who have lived many years, and experience thousands of conversations on that period could not remember what someone said 30 or 50 years before. Other than certain 'idiot savants', it is humanly impossible to remember things people said even a few minutes before (correctly) but impossible to remember many years later.

When someone tells you about an event that happened many years before, even the rough details of the event will be altered, simply because they have forgotten some, and likely re-invented some, without even being aware of doing so.

If you doubt that do an experiment with some people you trust fully. Get one person to tell another something, and then ask the second to tell a third and so on, and see if the telling is identical each time. If you want to see how one person will tell it only, have him tell a person something, then a day or two later have him tell the very same thing, without any references to go by, just from memory, and you will find that his story differs. He is not lying; he simply remembers it differently, or leaves out parts etc.

That is a human condition.

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