Why Should Jesus Love Me?

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527260
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I've spent a long time studying the bible, trying to figure it out. I still get surprised when I learn something new about it.
But you, you're like "I've read it, so I know it".
O_o
Yes, I've read it and I know it.

You imply that your added attention gives you a better understanding of the bible, and that when our opinions differ, yours trumps mine. I disagree. Here's why:

[1] The bible was not written by a god, but by a ragtag assortment of men, and does not contain any deep truths to begin with, however hard you study it. It is mostly vague and self-contradictory language that is interpreted differently by most readers, including most soi disant biblical scholars.

[2] Believers read their bibles with a confirmation bias. Your problem with my reference to a flat earth illustrates that nicely. You didn't want your bible to be that wrong and out of date, so in your mind, it simply wasn't, and you were even miffed that anyone would suggest otherwise.

[3] You've shown us repeatedly how difficult it is for you to read and reproduce an idea without altering it.

So, with all due respect, twice corrupted data processing of vague and self-contradictory prose with little truth value in it to begin with is not going to make me defer to any alleged expertise on your part.

Recently, we have twice seen you attempt to pull rank and overturn unbelievers' takes on your bible's cosmology, once over domes and vaults, and again over a flat earth.

But in neither case could you produce anything definitive - nothing unambiguous nor contradicted elsewhere - to rebut those reads. Like so many others before you who have rejected the interpretations of unbelievers like Scaritual and me, you simply claim a superior understanding for yourself, but cannot show that you have such a thing, nor even that it is possible. The evidence is that it is not, hence the 38,000 competing sects of Christianity today.

Your bible is much simpler than that, and nobody has a supportable claim to being in possession of a superior interpretation, including you.

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Apr 29, 2013
 

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TRUTHS BUSTER wrote:
<quoted text>Did you get stuck in the library again? No, you read Popular Mechanics "How to screw on your brain without thinking" or was it screw with???
Who's my good boi?

You is, yes you EEEiis.

Milk bone?

“The eye has it...”

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#527264
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_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you blame him?
Those Greek women. I'm sayin
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
I'm pretty sure topix needs a "have mercy!" judgicon.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527265
Apr 29, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
I asked you to show me where your bible defines anything unambiguously and without contradiction. I asked you to show me the part that backs any definitively pronouncement of what the cosmic vault and dome are, or anything else in your bible.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Oh, that's easy. The vault is the universe, the dome is the sky.

Job has some pretty amazing insight into the nature of the earth, for his time:

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.(Job 26:7)
He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.(Job 26:8)
He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.(Job 26:9)
He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.(Job 26:10)
The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.(Job 26:11)
"Easy"? Where was the unambiguous definition of vault and dome in those scriptures? There was none.

Furthermore, there are scriptures that contradict your read. Job 22:14 says that your god walks on this structure, and many so called experts agree with that take, as this PDF link at http://www.earthnotaglobe.com/library/the_bib... reports:

"This [snow globe type illustration provided] was how the universe appeared to the ancient Israelites who authored the Bible and to most everyone else in ancient times. The earth appeared to be flat and circular sitting on pillars with a rotating solid sky dome overhead which carried the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars and allowed water to leak through "windows of heaven" or sluice gates to form clouds and rain. God was imagined to live on top of the dome and walk on it"

This is EXACTLY what I mean. You have no special insights into the bible, just unsupported opinions.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527266
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Job has some pretty amazing insight into the nature of the earth, for his time:

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.(Job 26:7)

He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.(Job 26:8)

He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.(Job 26:9)

He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.(Job 26:10)

The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.(Job 26:11)
What's amazing about that? The first scripture is contradicted by Psalm 104:5:“Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

And the next two are trivial reports that water can float in the air in clouds, which in turn can obscure a view of the moon. And the last two are meaningless poetry.

So, just as I said, these scriptures are vague poetry and trivial observations that may be contradicted elsewhere. They contain no wisdom or deep insights, just trivial observations.

Finally, your use of the phrase "for his time" is telling. Aren't these supposed to be the words of a timeless and omniscient god?

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Apr 29, 2013
 

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TRUTHS BUSTER wrote:
<quoted text>And that means that you never learn and have no clue what it was you were supposed to learn.
http://www.youtube.com/don 'twatch?v=BRROAzMaez0
This account has been suspended due to multiple or severe violations of YouTube's policy against spam, gaming, misleading content, or other Terms of Service violations."

Dumbass :)

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#527268
Apr 29, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pretty sure topix needs a "have mercy!" judgicon.
The ass that launched a thousand ships.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527269
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
What you and Scar posted IS scripture, but you're reading it wrong.
So you say. But you fail to support that claim. I say you're wrong (see below).
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Skeptics have been trying feverishly for hundreds of years to "prove" the Bible depicts a flat earth when it doesn't.
I've shown you multiple scriptures that contradict you, including these:

[1] Dan 4:10-11 - "there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth."

[2] Matt 4:8 - "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor"

I say you're wrong about these scriptures. They contradict your claim that the bible does not report a flat earth.

Your choice to disregard them is part of your confirmation bias that simply doesn't want to admit that the bible writers had no divine knowledge.

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#527270
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Skeptics want to believe that because they feel it helps confirm their thinking that the Bible is not inspired by God -'cuz how could God not know the earth isn't flat?
No, believers like you want to believe that their bible couldn't make such a fundamental error.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
That's your tale. One which is only in the minds of a few skeptics and not based in reality.
Actually, Scar and I have shown you over a half dozen different believers' renderings of the ancient's view of the cosmos according to your bible, and they all showed a flat earth encased in a physical dome.

This is why your claim to a privileged understanding of the bible is rejected. It is obviously an unsupported bias, not a clear and unambiguous truth as you imply.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527271
Apr 29, 2013
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
No, I think we'll be using more ridicule. It's the most appropriate tool to use, in this instance.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Derision is no way to earn respect.
Derision is an excellent way to teach that faith, the bible, belief in its god, the religion derived from it, and the church that promotes it deserves no respect.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Maybe that's why Christians treat atheists the way we do
We know why Christians treat us as you do. Your bible teaches you to do so:

[1] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

[3]“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?”- 2 Corinthians 6:14

[4] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22

Here, unbelievers have been called fools, vile, corrupt, wicked, dark, liars, the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers, and appropriate to be tortured in fire and brimstone. The world is told that not one of us is any good. Not even one.

That's why you treat us as we do.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527272
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
you people are constantly nagging about shit you don't understand.
Nagging you? We are contradicting you, as I have been doing in these last several posts to you.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
So you mock us for it, ignorantly.
Yes we mock your beliefs. And we think it is the Christians who are ignorant. You haven't shown that you know any more about your bible than I do. Less, in fact. You seem to be unaware that your bible describes a flat earth covered in a physical vault

"The earth appeared to be flat and circular sitting on pillars with a rotating solid sky dome overhead which carried the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars and allowed water to leak through "windows of heaven" or sluice gates to form clouds and rain. God was imagined to live on top of the dome and walk on it."
http://www.earthnotaglobe.com/library/the_bib...

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#527273
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Do you understand that your little theory just said the bible depicts the earth as round and square?
Are you offering this comment as a defense of my criticism of your bible? It supports it.

Do you understand that I just showed you that the bible contradicted itself, and was wrong both times? My "theory" is that the bible is often vague, self-contradictory, trivial and/or wrong. The scriptures listed support that.

So did yours from Job 26:7-11 about the suspended earth (contradicted elsewhere), the clouds and full moon (trivial), the horizon separating the light and dark (wrong), and the quaking pillars of heaven (vague poetry).

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527274
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Well, if only 3,000 think it depicts a flat earth, then appr 2,199,997,000 think otherwise.
Yes, I know. Your bible describes a flat earth, which science has debunked. Nevertheless, some 3000 believers are so committed to the idea that their bible is correct that they still believe the bible over the science even today.

Centuries ago, before science showed otherwise, most of the bible readers believed that the earth was flat, unmoving, and the center of the universe, which was domed. How could it be otherwise? Why would they have any other concept of nature?

That most of the 2.2 billion Christians have come over to the scientific model speaks to the power of science. That several thousand still refuse to speaks to the power of faith.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Which is it, IANS? C'mon.
Your saying the bible depicts the earth as a flat disc - and you "prove" it. Now you're saying it depicts the earth as a square with four corners..... A flat disc square? You can try harder.
Seriously? Still?

My claim is neither that the bible calls the earth flat nor square, but that it says both.

My claim is that the bible cosmology is in various places wrong, vague, trivial and/or self-contradictory.

You seem to want to put these faults onto my claim, as if I am the one contradicting myself when I cite conflicting scriptures.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527277
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
What you're missing is that the last two clearly describe the earth as spherical, not flat.
Disagree. There is not one unambiguous description of a spherical earth in the entire bible. If you disagree, please show me scriptures that support you.

Furthermore, even if you can do that, how do you propose to make all of the contradictory scriptures describing a flat earth go away?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle. If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10.
Are you suggesting that that is evidence of understanding by the ancients that the earth is roughly spherical? It's not. It's evidence that the horizon appears circular from both a vantage point at sea level, and from an elevation, as from a mountaintop.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527278
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RiversideRedneck wrote:
The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth.
That is incorrect.

First, it is historically incorrect. The Greek Eratosthenes discerned the sphericity of the earth from shadows. http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/...

Second, the idea is logically unsound. Is Lake Erie spherical? From its middle, you can see a circular horizon all around you -a "circle on the face of the waters."
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe.
It does? How? Why wouldn't we see exactly that on a flat earth?

And even if such a demarcation did indicate sphericity, that would just be an example of a smart man writing scripture, not a god.

Furthermore, it would be contradicted by other scriptures that describe a flat earth. Remember, you are claiming that your bible clearly and unambiguously indicates that the earth is spherical and not flat.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#527279
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RiversideRedneck wrote:
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said,“In that day,” then in verse 34,“In that night.” This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously.
Disagree.

That day had a night everywhere. What part of those scriptures unambiguously indicates that they refer to remote locations considered simultaneously?

And how would the simultaneous presence of light in one place and darkness in another indicate that those people are living on a sphere? That can occur on a flat surface, too. Or a cube.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Your misinterpretation of the four corners, foundations of the earth, pillars of the earth, etc. are just that. YOUR misinterpretations.
Mine? They're not just my interpretations.

Calling them misinterpretations is a bare, unsupported claim. Show be the unambiguous and uncontradicted scriptures that support that claim. You can't.

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#527280
Apr 29, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
As they are obviously allergorical in their writing form
They are? What tells you that? That you know that they are in error?

RiversideRedneck wrote:
it's obvious that people like you really, really want the bible to be wrong so you mix-match the scriptures to fit your skeptic theories.
I think that it's obvious that people like you really, really want the bible not to be wrong. Can you offer any evidence that your take is more accurate than mine?

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#527281
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RiversideRedneck wrote:
You're a deceitful little worm.
Are we back in this mode again? Give me a minute to reorient myself for our remaining discussion:

OK, moron, I'm back. Now what were you saying?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I can't provide a link right now, but on page 25323, your post# 526178, you wrote:

Have you read the Sermon On The Mount? You're expected to suck it up and be meek, turn the other cheek, tell the guy who slapped you twice how much you love him with a big smile, and be grateful to your god that he used you that way.
Welcome to Doormat City.
By the way, that was a pretty damned good sentence you crafted. Would you agree that two "while"s so close together is suboptimal? Just drop the second one.
You're not as ghetto as you pretend.
===
Then when you accused me of having a flawed character, you deleted the "doormat city" and "ghetto" repsonses that YOU wrote, in an attempt to hide what you wrote, in fact making you the one with the same "flawed character" you accuse me of.
Disagree, maggot.

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
I'm honest, your'e not.
Actually I am honest, whereas you lie to yourself.

Plus, you're a moron, so even when not lying, you're wrong.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Remember, you said a person can interpret the Bible any way they want? THAT'S your deceit. THAT'S why you misinterpret the Bible.
No, fool. You cannot misinterpret vague and self-contradictory material, because there is no single, clear, definitive interpretation of such language possible.

==========

Do you like this form of communication better? You must, or you wouldn't have introduced the 'deceitful worm' comment.

I guess that my gentle nudge earlier didn't have the desired effect, which was to warn you that I wouldn't tolerate that type of language from you any more than I did from the Dimwit, the Dunce, Derp or Doof. Were you too stupid to know what would follow, or too stupid to care?

By the way, which name do you like best, Dung, Dag, or Dork?

What a fcuking idiot.

Now go ahead and get angry. But remember, this was YOUR choice.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Here we go again - accusations with even the slightest effort at being clear about what you mean, or supporting your claim.

What quote are you referring to? Please show me where I didn't quote you properly. Show us with links what you said, what I quoted, and how I misrepresented you - or whatever your gripe is.


No links?

FAIL
RiversideRedneck wrote:
My 'gripe' is your apparent lack of honesty. I did not write: "[The church] doesn't define [who is moral and who is to be despised.] already, hasn't in a while."
But you responded to it as if I did.
I wrote the parts in brackets to indicate what your pronouns were referring to, which is a standard practice. From http://www2.ivcc.edu/rambo/eng1001/quotes2.ht...

"Indicating Additions to Quotations with Brackets - You can use brackets within quotations to indicate material you have added to a quotation, but you should use brackets only when the meaning of the original might be unclear, most often because of a pronoun in the quotation with an unclear antecedent. Note the example below:

"Dillard was "stunned into stillness as he was emerging from beneath an enormous shaggy wild rose bush four feet away."

"In this example, the antecedent of "he" may be unclear to readers, so it's fine to use brackets to clarify the antecedent, as indicated below:

"Dillard was "stunned into stillness as [the weasel] was emerging from beneath an enormous shaggy wild rose bush four feet away."

==========

Do you claim that I substituted incorrectly? Review the facts before answering:

Here is the original, from
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR... :

IANS wrote: "My agenda is to help get the church completely out of the lives of unbelievers, and out of the general culture. Let it no longer define who is moral and who is to be despised."

RiversideRedneck wrote: "It doesn't define that already, hasn't in a while."

And here is how I rendered that at http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR... :

RiversideRedneck wrote: "[The church] doesn't define [who is moral and who is to be despised.] already, hasn't in a while.

And now here is your most recent claim fromabove:

RiversideRedneck wrote: "My 'gripe' is your apparent lack of honesty. I did not write: "[The church] doesn't define [who is moral and who is to be despised.] already, hasn't in a while."
But you responded to it as if I did."

Obviously, you are mistaken. I didn't misrepresent you at all.

So which is it - are you a liar or a moron, maggot?

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