“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#506935 Mar 20, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
Light Biblical have larger meaning in ancient hebrew and is not only limitted to one 12 hours day,but also to 12 hours night,or turn around globe in 365 days
also your brain is to narrow to see very clear,
you even don't see clear english word english foreign symantics,
how you can see or understand in how many days or years life was created, read 100 times genesis chapter 1
in other words; YOU'RE AN UNBELIEVER!

"will the Son of Man find faith on earth when He returns" Jesus

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506936 Mar 20, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
Pssst....*whispering* prate dude! Do you know boooooooooo ts is Psychotic? I met that one in the "Christian" forums...... never have engaged it though..... kudos ;)
That may be true, but I have had his back on occasion.
He is a "person" - just like me and you. Until he does something completely unforgivable (in my view), I will try to afford him the benefit of doubt...as I would you.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#506937 Mar 20, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>**PORTIONS DELETED**
Why do you suppose the gang has all moved to this thread? It is because they have, in their folly of debasement, destroyed any following in the one's they have already ruined any reasonable discussion in already, and there is nothing left but trolls who wish the threads to become moot. Any attempt you may be making to communicate reasonably with these posters will also be made futile in the process. Is that condoned and welcomed by you?--because that is exactly what I see coming down the alley...YOUR voice is going to be overrun by insolence and kangaroo court mentality also...enjoy.
.. whoa, hold on ..

<< offering BT a cracker >>

.. there were many trolls on this thread prior to 'our' appearance. You already had Dr. Shrink, Doc and a few others ..

<< giving BT box of crackers >>

.. you're correct about the PTAG thread, it's turned into an insult contest. That's why I abandoned it after two years ..

<< offering BT a banana >>

.. if you communicate with me reasonably, I'll return the favor. If you write character assassination, I'll ignore you, hence, no debate is possible ..

.. as the recipient of regular, unwarranted attacks, everything you wrote about our 'team' also applies to the other side ..

<< eyes focused on BT, slowly backing away >>

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#506938 Mar 20, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> That may be true, but I have had his back on occasion.
He is a "person" - just like me and you. Until he does something completely unforgivable (in my view), I will try to afford him the benefit of doubt...as I would you.
.. good post ..

.. Booooots has a special place in my heart ..

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#506939 Mar 20, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.....
.. when it comes to intelligence, I.Q. doesn't mean squat, curiosity and awareness does ..
Agreed... I am proof of that. LOL

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#506940 Mar 20, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
matter/"light" came into existence immediately upon God's proclomation of it, but then it seems He took 6 days to form it all specifically into the elaborate creation we now see in front of us. He then took a 7th day of rest.
it's all clearly there in black & white so i really can't understand why you're so obstinant towards me for simply pointing it out......
You still beleive the lies written by them damned Christ killers ?

You hate Jesus.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#506941 Mar 20, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
Standing ovation!
:-)
Sit down, Aussie! You're just applauding 'cause he mentioned Kangaroos.

LOL

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506942 Mar 20, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
I do like margaritas... at least, I used to :-)
It is a really good cap to a fine prime rib dinner.

I got totally intoxicated at a bar in the SF airport waiting to catch a flight to Washington to show 15 engineers how to construct a building they couldn't get properly designed and accepted...The bartender and 3 of us were sharing "new" margarita recipes with each other. Even the tender was trashed! It wasn't one of my best meetings the next day either! LOL!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#506943 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You want church audit reports? Ok
http://www.pilgrimchurch.net/pdf/2010%20Audit...
http://app1.lla.state.la.us/PublicReports.nsf... $FILE/40be0826.PDF
There's 2 I found in about 10 seconds.
First link:

"2010 Audit Committee Report Page 5
Additional Policies and Procedures need to be developed for
i. Collection, counting and deposit of Offering."

I guess that the church didn't keep adequate records of how much was collected, or didn't collect it properly. The report was vague.

"2010 Audit Committee Report Page 8 - The issue with this process is that the offering is not secured throughout the collection and storage time and there are times when there is only one person involved in the process. The rule of 2 should always apply. Also, the same person is recording the checks and counting the checks; this should be two separate activities by two different people."

This is obviously a problem. If the money is in the hands of only one person at any point before it is counted and recorded, you have no way of knowing how much disappeared.

"there were numerous issues with the bank check # not matching the payment register check #, which would also print on the check when prepared."

I don't know just what this means, or why check numbers were changed. No explanation that I could find was offered.

"Construction Loan
loan balance of $2,985,790.97, with an interest rate of 5.00 variable rate as of December 31, 2010."

Yikes! I guess the poor will just have to wait until they finish paying off their three million in construction!

Most importantly of all, I never found the amounts that the church collected, or what part of it was spent on charitable efforts. Perhaps you can look at the document and show me where I missed that. I was hoping to see that about 70-90% of the receipts were spent on the poor and needy rather than the 5-10% that I suspect.

Nothing in this audit allayed my concerns about that. In fact, it looks like most of the money may going to service a huge construction loan - the money that wasn't stolen, if any, when the chain of custody broke down to one person alone, that is.

Remember, the purpose of the exercise wasn't just to see if church's did audits, but what the audits showed about what the church did with the money.

========

Regarding the second link, which I had to reconstruct to visit, and which is already well over ten years old, look at the year 2000. Total revenues REPORTED were $394,508. I don't know what "support ministries" are, or who is supported, but only $9015 went to that. The item called "benevolent ministries" might be what I call helping the needy, or not. But the amount spent on them is only $23,477.

And I see nothing else that I would consider charitable, including "personal services and fringe benefits," "buildings and grounds," "pastoral ministries," "Christian education ministries," "tutorial ministry," "general operating expense," "transportation ministries," "depreciation expenses," or "miscellaneous expenses."

So, giving the benefit of the doubt that all of the benevolent ministries funds went to what we might call helping the needy, we're looking at 23477 / 394508 = just under 6% of totals going to charity.

==========

So, to the best of my ability to discern, neither of these audit was random, and they were both approved for publication. I would have like to have seen unannounced forensic style audits rather than those from churches that were self-selected because they felt that they had nothing to hid, and I would have liked them to show the huge charitable outlays that you and others seem to credit churches with making. The one of two that I could find the numbers for reported essentially the same number as Mother Teresa's charity, 7% to the needy.

The tax break is bigger than that. It seems that the state would do better to tax the church and spend it on the poor itself.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506944 Mar 20, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
They would understand the duality of YHWY better if they read (and believed) the first half of their Bibles.
"The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away." explains the duality eloguently and simply.
The "God" I believe in fits that.
Do you believe that YHWH was "the" god? A simple yes or no will do...unless you want to elaborate...or if you are more comfortable with not answering that is ok too.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506945 Mar 20, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
At the time of Jesus there were Jewish communities all over the known world; Rome, Africa, Egypt, Spain, etc.
There is nothing to indicate that Jesus was refering to any gentiles at all.
Makes sense.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506946 Mar 20, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
I am really enjoying my classes. That Psychology class is really helping me see more about myself and my own behavior than anyone else's right now. It's really interesting.:)
I have noticed a difference in you.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506947 Mar 20, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the gentile sheep were a slightly different shade of white....
LOL!

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#506948 Mar 20, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Do you believe that YHWH was "the" god? A simple yes or no will do...unless you want to elaborate...or if you are more comfortable with not answering that is ok too.
No, I don't.

I think all religons and mythologies are simply clues to finding "God". All are correct and all are wrong.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#506949 Mar 20, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
First link:
"2010 Audit Committee Report Page 5
Additional Policies and Procedures need to be developed for
i. Collection, counting and deposit of Offering."
I guess that the church didn't keep adequate records of how much was collected, or didn't collect it properly. The report was vague.
"2010 Audit Committee Report Page 8 - The issue with this process is that the offering is not secured throughout the collection and storage time and there are times when there is only one person involved in the process. The rule of 2 should always apply. Also, the same person is recording the checks and counting the checks; this should be two separate activities by two different people."
This is obviously a problem. If the money is in the hands of only one person at any point before it is counted and recorded, you have no way of knowing how much disappeared.
"there were numerous issues with the bank check # not matching the payment register check #, which would also print on the check when prepared."
I don't know just what this means, or why check numbers were changed. No explanation that I could find was offered.
"Construction Loan
loan balance of $2,985,790.97, with an interest rate of 5.00 variable rate as of December 31, 2010."
Yikes! I guess the poor will just have to wait until they finish paying off their three million in construction!
Most importantly of all, I never found the amounts that the church collected, or what part of it was spent on charitable efforts. Perhaps you can look at the document and show me where I missed that. I was hoping to see that about 70-90% of the receipts were spent on the poor and needy rather than the 5-10% that I suspect.
Nothing in this audit allayed my concerns about ministries," "Christian education ministries," "tutorial ministry," "general operating expense," "transportation ministries," "depreciation expenses," or "miscellaneous expenses."
So, giving the benefit of the doubt that all of the benevolent ministries funds went to what we might call helping the needy, we're looking at 23477 / 394508 = just under 6% of totals going to charity.
==========
So, to the best of my ability to discern, neither of these audit was random, and they were both approved for publication. I would have like to have seen unannounced forensic style audits rather than those from churches that were self-selected because they felt that they had nothing to hid, and I would have liked them to show the huge charitable outlays that you and others seem to credit churches with making. The one of two that I could find the numbers for reported essentially the same number as Mother Teresa's charity, 7% to the needy.
The tax break is bigger than that. It seems that the state would do better to tax the church and spend it on the poor itself.
Don't assume that all churches are rolling in money. There are many throught America that can barely even pay their expenses. A few that I've gone to were partially paid for by the pastor and his family. They were less-than-profitable organizations....

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#506950 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I believe what I said was "a perfect creator doesn't mean a perfect creation"
Evasion. Do you believe your deity is perfect?
There's that atheist adage: "Blame God for bad but don't thank Him for good."
(Which is what started this conversation. And you're playing along perfectly)
Why do you ignore my entire premise? We are discussing your beliefs, not mine. If you want to discuss my beliefs, you have to begin without deities - you are welcome to critique my beliefs. Tit for tat. But you are most certainly not critiquing me in the above but blatantly ignoring my "if" statements.

For me, your deity is like every other deity. It doesn't exist. I cannot lay blame on that. But, again, if you believe in a perfect deity, then you must believe it Created everything on purpose - as you have already claimed.

It's just that when we get to pathogens, you wimp out on your deity because you can't face the logical conclusion. So you obsfucate our discussion by claiming I believe things which I do not.
Unwilling, not unable.
Ok, so you openly admit you don't want to tackle the problem of "evil" (which I prefer to call "misery" or "immorality").

That's fine. That tells us you have an uncomfortable belief system that you are unwilling to critically analyze. Fair enough.
Huh

North Richland Hills, TX

#506951 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, I'm a Cuervo kinda guy...
Unless someone buys me Petron.....
Figures. Cuervo is grain-based, cheap vodka with mescal flavoring. And, it's Patron.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506952 Mar 20, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Around 350 AD
Of the entire tome, only four texts are about Jesus.
Modern Christianity is the religion of Pagan Rome as taught by the Roman ( AKA Catholic) Church based on the teachings of Paul.
It has little to do with Jesus.
I expect that is why it was illegal(under the threat of death) to even possess a copy of scripture in that time.
I think that to get even a remote understanding of the real movement, we have to consider all of the writings that were not destroyed and forbidden by the "universal church". History and religion is obfuscated. We need to know why...more than how.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#506953 Mar 20, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Sit down, Aussie! You're just applauding 'cause he mentioned Kangaroos.
LOL
So? Got a problem yank? ;p

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#506954 Mar 20, 2013
Epiphany2 wrote:
<quoted text>
They could Text in 350 AD.....Cool......
Aaahahahah!

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