Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#503765 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
We have seen how the unbelievers - all humanists, I believe - interact with one another on this thread, and how the Christians treat have treated one another. We've also seen some pretty disgusting behavior from the likes of Dim and now, unfortunately, Juice.
That's my evidence that there is a huge difference between the ideologies of the two camps not just on paper, but in practice. Apparently, you either don't see the difference, or don't consider it relevant.
I do see the difference and I do consider it relevant, as I am looking at behaviors on here myself. I question if you are truly trying to understand things, why you do not take into account the more moderate of Christians on the thread. What about those of us you do get along with? Should I take the non-Christians with the worst of attitudes and consider them to be the correct representatives of all non-Christians?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot comment on that without seeing to what you refer.
Even so, my argument is not that all Christians are bad and all unbelievers are good, so an example of an unbeliever acting badly wouldn't be evidence in favor of
So the bad behavior of some Christians can represent all of Christianity and its influence in the world, but the bad behavior of some non-Christians does not represent all that are not Christians? I don’t think I am following you right……
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, education is a big factor. Christianity fares better in the "hollers" in the mountains of the South than it does in Northern cities, especially a college town like Ann Arbor.
The least educated of Christians are the product of places such as hollers, and they tend to be the most radical in my opinion.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, I'd need to see what you are talking about. And even then, it's not relevant. I am talking about tendencies, about statistics and trends - the relative behaviors of millions of people considered collectively - not anecdotes of what somebody once did to somebody else. If I told you that Seattle is rainier than Phoenix, would your rebuttal be that you have seen it rain in Phoenix, too?
No that would not be my rebuttal. Can you point me in the direction of some statistics when it comes to behaviors broken down by beliefs? Not being sarcastic and I am fully aware of atrocities that have been done in the name of religion. I would like to know if there are dissertation’s or book’s that you can recommend that cover this topic in depth?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think so.
Strife wasn't main point, anyway. Ethics was, and I used the collective behavior of the Christians on this thread compared to the rest of us as a platform to discuss that. Strife in the form of unpleasant words are about all that can occur on a message board. But in meat space, the stakes go way up. Atheists, like gays, have to choose between dealing with that "strife" or remaining closeted.
Thanks for a pleasant exchange.
Can you see what I am getting at? How many Christians are on this thread compared to non-Christians? How is looking at this thread, an honest view of Christians? When I go to atheist threads, I have to deal with that same strife if I want to remain on the thread. Thank you for the exchange as well, whether you realize it or not, wheels are turning on this end.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#503767 Mar 15, 2013
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
My whimper was appropriate at the time…..my head hit the desk pretty hard <<rubs @ knot on forehead>> I find myself becoming discouraged <<shrugs>> I‘ll get over it at some point, no doubt. Thank you for the pep talk, I do appreciate it! I hope all is well in your slice of the world today :O)
Poor head :( all is well sweets... hope your day improves, hey if you're going to be doing something other than reading here, it's bound to!

:-)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#503768 Mar 15, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The concept of spirituality I do share, I'd say I have spiritual experiences daily.
The concept of a god for that, at least for me, is unnecessary.
Read some early Wordsworth poetry and you may capture it.
I am not saying someone can't have certain experiences without God. I am simply trying to show the gap between those experiences and God isn't that great imo. If someone can be in nature and tap into almost a consciousness of the universe or feel something on a deeper level than normal or can subscribe to certain 'natural laws' that don't have anything to do with science than that is the beginning imo of understanding and believing in a power greater than ourselves. Not to the extent of God but still.

There is no scientific proof of karma or fate but most people believe in some type of it whether they believe in God or not. The point of my reply wasn't to suggest you are missing out or anything along those lines but more was to try to set the stage in a way I felt someone like you might best relate to the idea of God.

When you strip away all the man-made trappings, God is as natural an idea as anything else that governs this universe. There are forces and laws at work that extend beyond man, of that I am certain. And like everything there is a food-chain so-to-speak. God would be at the top as far as a controlling force of the universe

Do I expect you to respond, "hmm, I see now. I do believe in God"? Of course not. You probably never will. But perhaps if you see the concept of God as not such a crazy thing it will help you relate to people who do believe when it comes to matters of faith. That is all I am going for

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#503769 Mar 15, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not a pseudo-scientist. I'm a social scientist. I know, I know, the two can be confused sometimes...
I wasn't talking to you. Did not call you a 'pseudo scientist' and was not referring to you either. You're right, people do get very confused sometimes....

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503770 Mar 15, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Whoops!...Sorry Illuminatrix, I thought this came from the hiding from you atheist.
Could you be more spineless, cowardly and dishonest?

Here you are openly admitting you disagree with me just because I don't share your religious views. "Oh, sorry, I just wrote nasty words because I thought I was writing to Hiding, not because what you wrote had any substance at all. I'm just immoral, intellectually dishonest and scum. Don't take it the wrong way - we both believe in the same deity, right? Cheers, bro!"

I cannot imagine a more pathetic intellect than yours. I cannot imagine a worse deity than yours - anyone who would worship your god should castrate themselves in powerless pathetic worthlessness.

Tri-infection, in simple English: you suck. And you betrayed your homies.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#503771 Mar 15, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
because low english is like AC MINUS
if minus is conected with + it is going to be dim light or crack you up,and shake you like small leaves on the tree during heavy wind?
dr Shrink High sophisticated english makes him completly apart from all those dummies bambling nonsesnes around?
Absolutely Doc, you are evolved.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#503772 Mar 15, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>No.... the rest of the Chrisitian nation.
Let us concede that Hitler wasn't a Christian. That still leaves a Nation of a few million Christians commiting attrocities in the name of Jesus and God.

Got Mit Uns (God is on our side) a popular Nazi Christian phrase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503773 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe - that's controversial. But it's also irrelevant.
What matters is that Germany was a Christian country. Germany didn't backslide. Germans happily gassed Jews on their Sabbath by the millions, and then went to their churches on their own to thank their god, whom they imagined had been killed by Jews.
You may know that I have been making a point of emphasizing how weak a community of Christians can be, and using this thread to epitomize Christian moral courage.
The Christian people of Nazi Germany are a good example of that Christian moral courage as well. As you well know, if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew.
We saw the same here with Dim's outrageous behavior. NoStress may have spoken faintly out in a post buried back in the annals of Topix somewhere - he/she said he did, although I never saw it. If so, that was it.
That's Christianity for you. If you want to demagogue a group of people to do horrible things, you can't do better than have a Christian nation. Hitler understood this, and played it to the hilt, whatever his private opinions may have been:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”- Adolph Hitler
“I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. It calls my attention to the man who, lonely and surrounded by only a few supporters, recognized what they [the Jews] were, and called for a battle against them, and who, by God, was not the greatest sufferer, but the greatest warrior...”- Adolph Hitler
“As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews... I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.”- Adolph Hitler
You can easily imagine the reaction to that from people like me, Hiding, Catcher, Happy Lesbo, Wilderide, Tide, River, Scaritual and others. It would be the same as it was to all the Christian homophobia here. A nation of humanists would be much more morally sound. We'd likely have ridiculed and rejected Hitler, not made him our leader.
Damn, you are a fine writer, IANS. Thank you.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503775 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This all looks so familiar. Isn't this the same thing that I just went through with Dim? Where do these people learn to be like this? Just kidding.
Christianity. Meh. We can do so much better than this. These people are taught to think like this from bibles that are basically workbooks in irrational, arbitrary, baseless judgment and condemnation - lists of whom to hate for no better reason than that it pleases some capricious and sadistic god.
They don't trash us. They trash their inferior values.
I don't know, IANS, I don't know.

My image of Christianity is of people like Al and Riverside. I know that Al doesn't understand science - and doesn't need to - and I know that you've had disagreements with RR (but he has a decent, if not amazing, understanding of science), but - and perhaps I'm overlooking details - from my experience, they seem to be normal Christians.

Not bigoted, not immoral, but decent people who invoke their religion as a way of communicating with others, understanding the world around them, and living what is for them a spiritual existence. I don't believer either of them speaks for churches or attend on a regular basis (though I could be mistaken about Al).

Those are the Christians I know - generally nice people. Not deep thinkers, never deep, never objective, never critical or reflexive about their religion.

So, in the end - yes. We do better. Better than their best. Sorry to normal, moral believers of any faith, but atheist humanism rises to the challenge. It's self-critical, self-reflexive.

I have to agree with you on this one, though I still maintain that religions offer a way to access spiritual experiences (that atheism could reach regardless).

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#503777 Mar 15, 2013
mike wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks
"why should jesus love me"....that would be a short topic.
No one has ever brought forth their GOD, so the hang-up is on the part of those who claim there is a GOD, especially those claim to have a relationship with a GOD. Believing is one thing, but claiming to have a personal relationship place's the burden on the claimers.
"Two or three gathered", where is your GOD sitting?
I'm not seeking agreement, the fact is, a GOD only exist in the minds of people,...simplify things and bring forth a GOD.
There is no 'burden' on the believers Mike. That has been another misconception either born out of confusion or ego. Not just yours but in general. Believers don't need to prove anything to anyone. Not only they don't need to prove it, most have no interest in trying once someone rejects the idea.

Why do you feel it would matter to people that they convince you that God is real?

I say this with general civility but nobody needs your permission to talk about anything or your approval. You can disagree God is real until they day you die. It won't affect any aspect of my life. So I can say for me at least that I feel no burden to prove anything to you. From what I have read from others believers I think they feel the same. If someone doesn't I am sure they will say but I doubt anyone is bothered that they have not convinced you.

As humans we can't force anyone to believe. That is about having an open heart and seeking God. So I also feel no guilt or failed responsibility for your unbelief. So on every possible level I feel no burden

Hope that helps explain better where I am coming from

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503779 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
@ Juice - she's right. Didn't you learn a thing from my flaying of Dim for just this kind of thing? Some of us are simply not going to sit for this kind of behavior from you Christians, because it's wrong, and because we don't have to be silent any longer.
Do yourself a big favor and deviate from Dim's path immediately. Eat crow and beg Hiding for her forgiveness. I'll bet you get it, and this can end here.
Or, be like Dim, hunker down, and prepare to be dealt with accordingly. It's a no brainer, although that didn't help Dim any.
And you can thank us later for teaching you better manners than your bible, church and fellow Christians did.
Thank you, IANS.

Juice actually apologized, I'm happy to say. So we're all good now.

I hold out hope that Skom will apologize to you, too.

And, on a side note, it would be nice is believers would, instead of attack our persons, address our arguments. To attack our characters is to tell us we are correct.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503780 Mar 15, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
I learn my ethics from you fearless leader.
Not a bad course of action, honestly.

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#503781 Mar 15, 2013
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>It is written in The Book of Revelation that there will be no Temples in the New Jerusalem, and it has been prophesied that there will be Peace on Earth... When we all learn to care for that which is within each of us, there will be no need for all of the control, we will be in charge, feed the poor and make sure everyone is cared for and looked after.
When we all learn that we are responsible for not only our actions, but also our inactivity ~ and we all know the majority really does rule. Problem is, it is the silent majority and the very noisy minority, so the minority appears to always win.
The ANGELS are in charge ~ things have been set in motion that will not be stopped; just as our own DNA is activating and ticking away, so is everything else. We are all in sync :)
Thank you for the above Serah <<Hugs>>

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503782 Mar 15, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
Bahahahaha!!! HA!
Does this mean your apology was not honest?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503783 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That depends. What kind of goat? Billy or nanny?
Billy.

:)

and blach!

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#503784 Mar 15, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Not until you give me what I want.
Almost anything for you. <blushes>

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#503785 Mar 15, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
@ G... who woulda thunk it? Praise God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =nmmcyOh-20MXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Miss Israel 2013
Only took 2500 years! <big smile>

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#503786 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not a closed mind. You cannot call a mind closed because it doesn't agree with yours.
A closed mind is one that won't consider evidence fairly - that won't allow itself to be convinced by compelling evidence and argument. You've offered no evidence for gods, and in particular, none for your god.
Of course she refuses to budge from her atheistic position. And I believe that Hiding has acknowledged the logical possibility that gods might exist somewhere, even if she rejects yours. So do I.
What do you think of a mind that accepts claims without sufficient evidence, the definition of religious faith? Is that an open mind to you? If so, you don't want that kind of open mind. That barely qualifies as a mind at all.
An open mind is willing to admit ideas into its consideration chamber and give them a fair and thoughtful evaluation. That means that it is discriminating, which is what a fair appraisal entails. A good mind, which is an open and intelligent one - accepts ideas supported by evidence commensurate with the quality and quantity of that evidence, and rejects baseless claims such as the claims for Jehovah-Jesus. There is absolutely no reason to accept that claim apart from the will to believe, and no good reason at all.
An open mind is not defined by why it concludes, but by how it reaches those conclusions - rationally - and how it treats its conclusions - provisionally.
You actually convinced me that the existence of deities cannot be proven. Prior to that, I thought that evidence enough could rule them out with 100% certainty.

But, I have to admit, it's not quite 100% certainty - it's just that, as the limit approaches 100%, when are we going to admit they just don't exist.

And certainly not as any human has ever envisioned them. Do you remember that phrase? Something like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." So the only conclusion is that deities are ultra-intelligent, high technology wielding, near immortal beings. Or, they're magical and our science is totally wrong.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#503787 Mar 15, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Let us concede that Hitler wasn't a Christian. That still leaves a Nation of a few million Christians commiting attrocities in the name of Jesus and God.
Got Mit Uns (God is on our side) a popular Nazi Christian phrase.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns
Concede==Your way to easy.lol lol
I win game over lol lol.Your done for.lol lol

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#503788 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This all looks so familiar. Isn't this the same thing that I just went through with Dim? Where do these people learn to be like this? Just kidding.
Christianity. Meh. We can do so much better than this. These people are taught to think like this from bibles that are basically workbooks in irrational, arbitrary, baseless judgment and condemnation - lists of whom to hate for no better reason than that it pleases some capricious and sadistic god.
They don't trash us. They trash their inferior values.
Can I ask if you see anything wrong with this comment?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 1 min exposingdolts 30,807
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 2 min Tellthetruth 987,234
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 3 min kent 687,186
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 3 hr Say the Truth 286,541
I LOVE my new LG V20 smartphone!!! 7 hr LG Sucks 4
Popcorn time for movies and shows using VPN 11 hr clayvligon 2
Bush is a hero (Sep '07) 14 hr LAWEST100 184,840
More from around the web