“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503586 Mar 15, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>Hey Illuminatrix,
LOL

He did. For all I care he can white sheet me Black sheet me or orange sheet me. LOL

He, like the rest of this gang acts like everyone is as interested in what they have to say as they are. I probably could be interested if they would behave. But like Children do they don’t seem to be able to. And I’m not for giving way to misbehaving Children that interrupt with their whining and throw temper tantrums so no one else can visit and talk to each other. Kind of reminds me of Nelly (I think that is right) on Little House On The Prairie LOL

Good to talk with you IT
HFN
Lol... Great analogy :-)

“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503587 Mar 15, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text><stomps feet> I'm tellin' mom what you said !
I'm telling my mom too, then she'll tell your mom and you'll be in big trouble so there! LOL

“squuuze me”

Since: Feb 09

Florida, USA

#503588 Mar 15, 2013
Trollface & his followers ...
http://ru.memegenerator.net/instance/24162260

"This is our thread now" ....
Is that a pathetic existence? I mean; can trollface spell "loser"?

How is it possible that anyone's life could be so empty and worthless?
tsk ...tsk ...

“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503589 Mar 15, 2013
hick-up wrote:
Trollface & his followers ...
http://ru.memegenerator.net/instance/24162260

"This is our thread now" ....
Is that a pathetic existence? I mean; can trollface spell "loser"?

How is it possible that anyone's life could be so empty and worthless?
tsk ...tsk ...
Best post today,, nice kitty :-)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503590 Mar 15, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
"Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to try and prove that they are not idiots." David Schmid. Smart man.
This sounds like Christianity speaking to me. I've never heard anybody else berate education before.

Here's an excerpt from an email I sent out to my local freethinkers association, which was discussing something called Humanistic Mormonism. One of our members linked us to a story and added, "I confess that I do not understand Religious Humanism, let alone the religion of Humanistic Mormonism."

My response included the following. Please note the references to education, and the difference between the way that humanists esteem it and the religious rightly fear it :

"Humanism and Christianity seem pretty incompatible to me. Humanism affirms man's ability to direct his fate, and values him for his potential to make the world a better place. It also places a premium on human happiness, which it identifies with such values as individual freedom, reason, education, opportunity, tolerance, cooperation, and compassion.

"Christianity seems antithetical to all of that. The cardinal values of the church appear to be submission and obedience. It disesteems individuality, autonomy, education, and reason for starters. The church is divisive, judgmental and totalitarian."

==========

It's often noted that the fall of the church has been tied to education, beginning with the printing press and the advent of widespread literacy. In America, the rise of science mortally wounded the church. Battles have been raging in court for decades over who will have access to the minds of children. Creationism is now considered illegal to teach as science in public schools.

But modern telecommunications has rung the death knell for the church, especially the Internet, where activities like these are occurring increasingly frequently, and younger people have access to information about what religion really is.

Also, satellites in low earth orbit beam a steady stream of science's successes and religion's failures 24/7. And not just NatGeo and the Discovery, but the contempt and disrespect for religion inherent in every sitcom where priests and ministers are portrayed as irrelevant people that just don't fit in at parties, and the religious are comical characters, such as the spinster Wanda on Sanford and Son, who continually calls Fred a heathen. She's a joke.

And then there are the best sellers from Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris. It's all education.

So, it's no surprise to read, "Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to try and prove that they are not idiots."

Nor is it a surprise to see it quoted by Christians attacking educated unbelievers like Hiding. In a selfish and pernicious effort to defend its turf, the church is willing to teach as many people as will listen how harmful education is, to hate the educated, and to disesteem reason, evidence and argument.

I hope that you won't mind if I share your quote with my local freethinkers as follow-up to my comment to them yesterday about how Christians view education compared with the humanist perspective. Information flows freely, quickly, and extensively in the information age.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503591 Mar 15, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Okay, so Hitler started out as a Catholic and backslid out of Catholicism.
Maybe - that's controversial. But it's also irrelevant.

What matters is that Germany was a Christian country. Germany didn't backslide. Germans happily gassed Jews on their Sabbath by the millions, and then went to their churches on their own to thank their god, whom they imagined had been killed by Jews.

You may know that I have been making a point of emphasizing how weak a community of Christians can be, and using this thread to epitomize Christian moral courage.

The Christian people of Nazi Germany are a good example of that Christian moral courage as well. As you well know, if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew.

We saw the same here with Dim's outrageous behavior. NoStress may have spoken faintly out in a post buried back in the annals of Topix somewhere - he/she said he did, although I never saw it. If so, that was it.

That's Christianity for you. If you want to demagogue a group of people to do horrible things, you can't do better than have a Christian nation. Hitler understood this, and played it to the hilt, whatever his private opinions may have been:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.- Adolph Hitler

I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. It calls my attention to the man who, lonely and surrounded by only a few supporters, recognized what they [the Jews] were, and called for a battle against them, and who, by God, was not the greatest sufferer, but the greatest warrior...- Adolph Hitler

As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews... I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.- Adolph Hitler

You can easily imagine the reaction to that from people like me, Hiding, Catcher, Happy Lesbo, Wilderide, Tide, River, Scaritual and others. It would be the same as it was to all the Christian homophobia here. A nation of humanists would be much more morally sound. We'd likely have ridiculed and rejected Hitler, not made him our leader.

“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503592 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This sounds like Christianity speaking to me. I've never heard anybody else berate education before.
Here's an excerpt from an email I sent out to my local freethinkers association, which was discussing something called Humanistic Mormonism. One of our members linked us to a story and added, "I confess that I do not understand Religious Humanism, let alone the religion of Humanistic Mormonism."
My response included the following. Please note the references to education, and the difference between the way that humanists esteem it and the religious rightly fear it :
"Humanism and Christianity seem pretty incompatible to me. Humanism affirms man's ability to direct his fate, and values him for his potential to make the world a better place. It also places a premium on human happiness, which it identifies with such values as individual freedom, reason, education, opportunity, tolerance, cooperation, and compassion.
"Christianity seems antithetical to all of that. The cardinal values of the church appear to be submission and obedience. It disesteems individuality, autonomy, education, and reason for starters. The church is divisive, judgmental and totalitarian."
==========
It's often noted that the fall of the church has been tied to education, beginning with the printing press and the advent of widespread literacy. In America, the rise of science mortally wounded the church. Battles have been raging in court for decades over who will have access to the minds of children. Creationism is now considered illegal to teach as science in public schools.
But modern telecommunications has rung the death knell for the church, especially the Internet, where activities like these are occurring increasingly frequently, and younger people have access to information about what religion really is.
Also, satellites in low earth orbit beam a steady stream of science's successes and religion's failures 24/7. And not just NatGeo and the Discovery, but the contempt and disrespect for religion inherent in every sitcom where priests and ministers are portrayed as irrelevant people that just don't fit in at parties, and the religious are comical characters, such as the spinster Wanda on Sanford and Son, who continually calls Fred a heathen. She's a joke.
And then there are the best sellers from Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris. It's all education.
So, it's no surprise to read, "Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to try and prove that they are not idiots."
Nor is it a surprise to see it quoted by Christians attacking educated unbelievers like Hiding. In a selfish and pernicious effort to defend its turf, the church is willing to teach as many people as will listen how harmful education is, to hate the educated, and to disesteem reason, evidence and argument.
I hope that you won't mind if I share your quote with my local freethinkers as follow-up to my comment to them yesterday about how Christians view education compared with the humanist perspective. Information flows freely, quickly, and extensively in the information age.

I didn't read you whole post, more ranting no doubt but I will respond to the first part, where you only quoted part of my post and once again dishonestly took it out of context. I have no problem with education, it would be funny if I did. What I have a problem with is using education to make others feel or look inferior, especially when using invented education. Most if not all of the Christians I personally know (by no means a small group) are highly educated and never seem to feel the need to make anyone feel or look inferior, so wrong assumption, again, why am I not even a little bit surprised.

“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503593 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe - that's controversial. But it's also irrelevant.
What matters is that Germany was a Christian country. Germany didn't backslide. Germans happily gassed Jews on their Sabbath by the millions, and then went to their churches on their own to thank their god, whom they imagined had been killed by Jews.
You may know that I have been making a point of emphasizing how weak a community of Christians can be, and using this thread to epitomize Christian moral courage.
The Christian people of Nazi Germany are a good example of that Christian moral courage as well. As you well know, if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew.
We saw the same here with Dim's outrageous behavior. NoStress may have spoken faintly out in a post buried back in the annals of Topix somewhere - he/she said he did, although I never saw it. If so, that was it.
That's Christianity for you. If you want to demagogue a group of people to do horrible things, you can't do better than have a Christian nation. Hitler understood this, and played it to the hilt, whatever his private opinions may have been:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.- Adolph Hitler
I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. It calls my attention to the man who, lonely and surrounded by only a few supporters, recognized what they [the Jews] were, and called for a battle against them, and who, by God, was not the greatest sufferer, but the greatest warrior...- Adolph Hitler
As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews... I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.- Adolph Hitler
You can easily imagine the reaction to that from people like me, Hiding, Catcher, Happy Lesbo, Wilderide, Tide, River, Scaritual and others. It would be the same as it was to all the Christian homophobia here. A nation of humanists would be much more morally sound. We'd likely have ridiculed and rejected Hitler, not made him our leader.
Almost all your posts are irrelevant.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503594 Mar 15, 2013
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sorry Ians you seem to be stating that it is a fact that if all the religious people were off the thread there would be no or almost no fighting, and in my opinion you can not know that.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

We have seen how the unbelievers - all humanists, I believe - interact with one another on this thread, and how the Christians treat have treated one another. We've also seen some pretty disgusting behavior from the likes of Dim and now, unfortunately, Juice.

That's my evidence that there is a huge difference between the ideologies of the two camps not just on paper, but in practice. Apparently, you either don't see the difference, or don't consider it relevant.
NoStress4me wrote:
I have been treated badly by many non-Christians on topix, so to say that only religious people do this, would be incorrect.
I cannot comment on that without seeing to what you refer.

Even so, my argument is not that all Christians are bad and all unbelievers are good, so an example of an unbeliever acting badly wouldn't be evidence in favor of
NoStress4me wrote:
I do not turn a blind eye on what someone does as a believer and I do see what you are saying. I do not only question religion though. Things such as location, education, and background are very important when it comes to understanding the dynamics. I moved from Ann Arbor MI to a holler in the Mountains of NC and had a bit of an eye opener at that time in my life. From growing up in a diverse and booming college town, where Christian Churches and Jewish temples (as one example) at times share buildings -and moving to a place where some folks did not have power or running water, also where I first started hearing about fire and brimstone from the pulpit.
Yes, education is a big factor. Christianity fares better in the "hollers" in the mountains of the South than it does in Northern cities, especially a college town like Ann Arbor.
NoStress4me wrote:
I have been told by non-Christians that I am a bigot because I am a Christian, and if I really follow the faith there is no way not to be one. I have been called a liar because I said that I was raised to use logic and was told, if one is a Christian they cant use any logic. I have not been directly called a pervert, but have been told that my God is one because he is so worried about what everyone does in bed. When it comes to abomination.no, can not tell you that I have ever had a non-Christian call me that. In my opinion educated people dont tend to say such things, regardless of what they do or dont believe in. I have been smacked at by Christians and non Christians alike. I am not saying that to complain, in fact it has helped me to discover quite a bit about myself and others.
Once again, I'd need to see what you are talking about. And even then, it's not relevant. I am talking about tendencies, about statistics and trends - the relative behaviors of millions of people considered collectively - not anecdotes of what somebody once did to somebody else. If I told you that Seattle is rainier than Phoenix, would your rebuttal be that you have seen it rain in Phoenix, too?
NoStress4me wrote:
So the real question was if religion was completely off the table.gone.would there actually be less strife? I do not know, but in answer to your question, yes - I honestly have been questioning it.
I think so.

Strife wasn't main point, anyway. Ethics was, and I used the collective behavior of the Christians on this thread compared to the rest of us as a platform to discuss that. Strife in the form of unpleasant words are about all that can occur on a message board. But in meat space, the stakes go way up. Atheists, like gays, have to choose between dealing with that "strife" or remaining closeted.

Thanks for a pleasant exchange.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503595 Mar 15, 2013
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Cut for space, no disrespect intended full comment found here:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
Thank you for taking the time on this Tide, I truly appreciate it. I am going to forewarn you though, that chances are if a discussion continues about this for any length of time, you will probably have to clarify some aspects for me. I have a little bit of a leg up when it comes to the history due to a conversation I had on another thread in the past. I did have a knee Jerk response before (in the prior conversation) when it came to the control of the masses aspect, but at this point I do understand it. I will not deny that religion can be used as a tool, as I have said it myself. What better way to control someone than to tell them that an unseen and all powerful force is going to punish them for eternity if they do not do <..>? I get that.
Here is a question though. What about when it is not used as a tool? Please do not think that at this point I am going to come in and say that my Church, Denomination, Religion or God is the one way and does not ever use religion as a tool - just to clarify for you that I am not asking from a deceptive stance. In my honest opinion it is not always used as a tool, regardless of the belief. I just want to know if we are on the same page with that, or if you disagree.
Secondly, whats to say that if all religion as we know it is eradicated that something else wont just take its place?
It is written in The Book of Revelation that there will be no Temples in the New Jerusalem, and it has been prophesied that there will be Peace on Earth... When we all learn to care for that which is within each of us, there will be no need for all of the control, we will be in charge, feed the poor and make sure everyone is cared for and looked after.

When we all learn that we are responsible for not only our actions, but also our inactivity ~ and we all know the majority really does rule. Problem is, it is the silent majority and the very noisy minority, so the minority appears to always win.

The ANGELS are in charge ~ things have been set in motion that will not be stopped; just as our own DNA is activating and ticking away, so is everything else. We are all in sync :)

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503596 Mar 15, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! Gee, what a tough moral quandary!
In the eyes of the victim, they are all as bad as each other.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503597 Mar 15, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
How about pedophiles and rapists? That's my vote.
Mine too.....

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503598 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/top stories/T0N0LORUMAROFEJGO/post 502979 on what god might be
<quoted text>
OK.
What I was hoping for was an operational definition, not poetry. Recall that an operational definition of the word "God" is one given in terms of "the specific process or set of validation tests used to determine its presence and quantity" or "in terms of the operations that count as measuring it."
What you say may feel good to you, but it has no information content. It doesn't tell me anything useful. Yours are just pretty words that evoke images and emotions, but don't map to anything in material reality, i.e, poetry. Nothing would be different if you had said that the god was a plasma or a vortex of ectoplasm - just a different poem.
<quoted text>
That was beautiful. But it has no more utility than to be beautiful.
<quoted text>
Now you're talking about material reality and testable ideas.
We can prove that dogs hear something that we cannot hear, but only because material objects called dogs actually exist and can be studied.
We can also prove that there are inaudible "sounds" being made by the whistles without the dogs. We can measure the sound energy without hearing it.
You can't really equate the sound energy from dog whistles, which is measured in pascals, and which has detectable, predictable and reproducible effects on material reality, with angel energy, which is poetry, is measured in stanzas, detectable only by the imagination, and maps onto nothing out there in material reality.
Yes, I can :)

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503599 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
"hands Grace a flyrod and smiles"
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
Yes, that was a great posting from Grace :)

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503600 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Your capsule summary of your experience of living several years on the street included a lot of abuse at the hands of Christians, and kindness from other kinds of people. By "how do you account for that," I mean, do you have a candidate explanation for why Christians were less kind to you than other types of people?
Juice's answer was that "at the end of the day, haters are going to hate". She didn't seem to discern the correlation that you did.
Just because someone goes to Church regularly, helps out on the Christian fund raisers and puts on airs and graces does not make them a Christian. It is the actions and intentions that make a Christian, and that is why Matthew told us that sometimes our worst foes might be our own families ~ so that we would not beat our heads against brick walls trying to please those who just want to walk over you when it suits. Been there and done that, and it is tough losing a family, but you gain back those that belong, and they learned of one's integrity, so sometimes, just reading that these things have happened to others, gives us relief.

We don't always have to turn the other cheek, to keep getting it whacked again; we can forgive them and then walk away. With Peace in the heart and love in the void, for sometime, somewhere, things just might be different :)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503601 Mar 15, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Enculturation. That how science work right? lol.
You revel in your ignorance, don't you? There is nothing too stupid for you to post. You make a moronic comment and then titter as if you have prevailed in some way.

How long have you been working on English? I'm learning Spanish now, and have been for three years. I have never uttered or written a comment like yours. You have no verb, Tonto: "Kemo Sabe sad? Tonto, too" It would be like me saying "Como usted?" in place of "Como esta usted?" It's unthinkable. No: "It unthinkable, Kemo Sabe."

And no, "work," which should be conjugated "works," is not the verb. It is the verb in the noun clause that serves as the object of the sentence's subject, "that."

Do you think that such things don't matter - that they don't reflect on you? You're mocking the thinking of a graduate student and teacher at a university, and you still can't manage a simple sentence in English. She speaks at least English and Japanese, and I'd bet the farm that she doesn't speak Japanese like she's right off the boat the way you speak English.

So STFU.

“The who whating how with huh?”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#503602 Mar 15, 2013
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>It is written in The Book of Revelation that there will be no Temples in the New Jerusalem, and it has been prophesied that there will be Peace on Earth... When we all learn to care for that which is within each of us, there will be no need for all of the control, we will be in charge, feed the poor and make sure everyone is cared for and looked after.

When we all learn that we are responsible for not only our actions, but also our inactivity ~ and we all know the majority really does rule. Problem is, it is the silent majority and the very noisy minority, so the minority appears to always win.

The ANGELS are in charge ~ things have been set in motion that will not be stopped; just as our own DNA is activating and ticking away, so is everything else. We are all in sync :)
:-)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503603 Mar 15, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party
Some early roots: "Wandervogel youths were indoctrinated with Greek paganism and taught to reject the Christian values of their parents (mostly Catholics and Lutherans)."
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-...
Was this part of an argument for or against Christianity?

You understand that Nazi Germany was a Christian nation, do you not? If you find its ethics deficient and defective, well, so do I. But I just used that as an argument against Christianity informing the national ethos.

This site is in Portuguese, but the photographs are in English:
http://anticlerical.multiply.com/photos/album...

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#503604 Mar 15, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
We say it the opposite way. You can't see the forest for the trees, meaning that you are missing the big picture.
Yes, I can see that overlooking the individual would suit some, if not many.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#503605 Mar 15, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Whoops!...Sorry Illuminatrix, I thought this came from the hiding from you atheist.
So you lambasted it because you thought it came from Hiding, but now are apologizing to Juice? Where is your intellectual integrity?

When will you show us something that we can admire?

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