“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#502463 Mar 12, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Define a lot.
Probably like The Prayer Wheel Of F-O-R-T-U-N-E.

<Moses Sajak> "Okay, RiversideRedenck, what'll it be?"

<RiversideRedneck> "ummm... Can I get a Miracle?"

<Moses Sajak> "Ohhh, NOPE!- just a penny on a sidewalk, spin again"

<RiversideRedneck> "The point is I got something"

<Moses Sajak> "Sure, sure, just spin the prayer wheel"

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#502464 Mar 12, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Christians anthropomorphize Yahweh. And after all, in Genesis doesn't it say humans were created in Yahweh's image? What is the significance of that statement? God is like humans when you want to rationalize it's behavior, and then not like humans when you can't explain it's actions rationally?
<quoted text>
It would be unfair, but that doesn't mean it's not what happens. The idea of eternal torute and suffering with no hope of redemption for the sin of guessing wrong in life is itself as unfair a thing as can be imagined anyway.
<quoted text>
It sounds like you just make up your ideology as you go along.
<quoted text>
Why? Didn't God know in advance what would happen? Moreover, if belief in the sacrifice were so important to God then God could provide objective evidence for it, rather than expecting people to believe such a story on it's face with no proof (and then punishing them forever for guessing wrong). It's like God punishes only the intelligent people, but saves the gullible. Or at least the gullible who have the good luck to fall into Christianity's hands first rather than some other religion.
<quoted text>
Really? Where does it say that in the Bible? Or is that what you'd like to believe?
<quoted text>
What if someone rejects Christ simply because they don't believe a story with no evidence to back it up? If someone said the same thing to you about Islam, or Scientology, you'd think it was ridiculous.
That the risk we all take. We all die. And even science is realizing that a soul or psyche exist. I believe there is more than sufficient to back Jesus Christ as the savior. You don't, you think its ridiculous. That's the choice you make. To you that is not a choice, to me, you have a choice.

Sure humans were made in the image of YHWH. But YHWH also say his ways are not our ways. So there are features of YHWH humans cannot relate to.

You believe its a guess, I don't. My experience leads me to be confident..maybe sometimes to a fault, that I have access to father YHWH through son Jesus Christ and the Spirit. That is not a guess to [me].

Make it up as I go along? I consider it musings on information not in the bible.

Why YHWH would punish for eternity for rejecting His Son? I would.

If the blood of Jesus Christ was the only way to wipe someone's sin guilt and wrath of God from they head and they refuse, they deserve punishment. YHWH prefers faith. Objective evidence, faith not needed. That YHWH system. YHWH never ask anyone approval before he requite it. If you no like it, leave it. Why keep asking different Christians to get different perspectives? If you leave Christianity behind because it no make any sense to you, why not leave it there?

If you feel only the gullible follow Jesus, then why not let them be? Anyone ask you to be the savior of the gullible?

How come I don't go and seek out those still in buddhism and question them like you do? That is the pass, I don't want to still live there.

What makes you continue to ask questions about a religion you give up? and from the amount of writings by you name, you been spending yrs doing it.

Why. No one no do that for a hobby. why not move forward with you life? why not involve yourself in something that give you fulfillment?

Christianity obviously never fulfill you, yet you asking never ending questions over it?

You see any billboard where Christians go ask tons of questions about secular humanism? they not ask, because it not fulfilling to them, and no make any sense.

Yet you do it. Just what you gaining? Christians talk about Jesus and the bible, that what we do here. What you still doing here?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502465 Mar 12, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
...named after the god Jupiter.
Which is the Anglicized name for the Pagan Roman Father God, "Deus Pater".
Incidentaly the exact name used in the Catholic Bible for "God".

Funny aint it ?

Pagans claiming not to be pagans.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502466 Mar 12, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
You want me should make you a commemorative plate?
I'll settle for a doggie bag.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502467 Mar 12, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
No way! They named the "god" after the planet cause Adam named the planet and he existed first.
LOL

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#502468 Mar 12, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go again.
Comparing a sexual preference or orientation to race.
Knock it off, get real.
The only difference is that you can (usually) visually determine a person's race, but not his sexual orientation. People are born with their race, and with their sexual orientation.

Bigotry is bigotry, RR.

Where's HL when I need her?

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#502469 Mar 12, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
But if salvation requires both, then you just greatly reduced the sacrifice of Jesus, because now it's not sufficient in itself.
Its not about me. Its about you.

I'm sufficient in my belief. You were not, so you leave.

Find you way. Find what satisfies you in life.

You say you read the bible, then figure out for yourself the questions you keep asking.

Don't ask me anything more. Seriously. Go bother another Jesus Follower.

Because is not discussions going on with you anymore, is responses to talking points you have recorded somewhere.

Because whatever you looking for the fact that you never find it in Christianity...and you still no find it questioning Christians asking the same things over and over, tell me say, you can't take a hint to simply leave the Christian Religion alone.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#502470 Mar 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That the risk we all take. We all die. And even science is realizing that a soul or psyche exist. I believe there is more than sufficient to back Jesus Christ as the savior. You don't, you think its ridiculous. That's the choice you make. To you that is not a choice, to me, you have a choice.
Sure humans were made in the image of YHWH. But YHWH also say his ways are not our ways. So there are features of YHWH humans cannot relate to.
You believe its a guess, I don't. My experience leads me to be confident..maybe sometimes to a fault, that I have access to father YHWH through son Jesus Christ and the Spirit. That is not a guess to [me].
Make it up as I go along? I consider it musings on information not in the bible.
Why YHWH would punish for eternity for rejecting His Son? I would.
If the blood of Jesus Christ was the only way to wipe someone's sin guilt and wrath of God from they head and they refuse, they deserve punishment. YHWH prefers faith. Objective evidence, faith not needed. That YHWH system. YHWH never ask anyone approval before he requite it. If you no like it, leave it. Why keep asking different Christians to get different perspectives? If you leave Christianity behind because it no make any sense to you, why not leave it there?
If you feel only the gullible follow Jesus, then why not let them be? Anyone ask you to be the savior of the gullible?
How come I don't go and seek out those still in buddhism and question them like you do? That is the pass, I don't want to still live there.
What makes you continue to ask questions about a religion you give up? and from the amount of writings by you name, you been spending yrs doing it.
Why. No one no do that for a hobby. why not move forward with you life? why not involve yourself in something that give you fulfillment?
Christianity obviously never fulfill you, yet you asking never ending questions over it?
You see any billboard where Christians go ask tons of questions about secular humanism? they not ask, because it not fulfilling to them, and no make any sense.
Yet you do it. Just what you gaining? Christians talk about Jesus and the bible, that what we do here. What you still doing here?
Yes, yes, yes, because a supreme being turning himself into a human just to sacrifice himself to himself to save his own creations from the wrath of himself is sensible, logical and completely plausible~/.

Just think of the time and life that would have been saved if he'd just drowned himself instead of the world in the mythic story.

Then, sacrifice himself to himself.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502471 Mar 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, yeah.
You're a bigot.
Isn't saying "I am against gays but not blacks." like saying "I hate Jews but not blacks" to prove you aren't a bigot ?

Bigots rarely see themselves as bigots. Most think of themselves as righteous heros of all mankind.
Attend a KKK or Neo-Nazi rally and listen to the "love" in the name of God and Mankind.

“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#502472 Mar 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>< moons JLu >
Charming...

“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#502473 Mar 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>I'll settle for a doggie bag.
Appropriate <smile>

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#502474 Mar 12, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, yes, yes, because a supreme being turning himself into a human just to sacrifice himself to himself to save his own creations from the wrath of himself is sensible, logical and completely plausible~/.
Just think of the time and life that would have been saved if he'd just drowned himself instead of the world in the mythic story.
Then, sacrifice himself to himself.
at least you not live in Saudi Arabia where they force you to be accept Mohammed.

you can reject Jesus Christ, and no one will bother you.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#502475 Mar 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't saying "I am against gays but not blacks." like saying "I hate Jews but not blacks" to prove you aren't a bigot ?
Bigots rarely see themselves as bigots. Most think of themselves as righteous heros of all mankind.
Attend a KKK or Neo-Nazi rally and listen to the "love" in the name of God and Mankind.
RR, I hope you are paying attention.

You have the capacity to learn and to grow.

Use it.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#502476 Mar 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
You see any billboard where Christians go ask tons of questions about secular humanism? they not ask, because it not fulfilling to them, and no make any sense.
...Now that you mention it.

Yeah.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#502477 Mar 12, 2013
There shall be upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity;the sea and waves roaring;men's hearts failing them for fear,and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth;for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:25&26

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#502478 Mar 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
If you do not want to believe the research, then don't.
I do want to believe it - if it's credible. It's just that you haven't presented any research. Let me show you what research looks like. This is the report of a study that looked to a benefit to either prayer or so-called MIT therapy: music, imagery and touch.

Three groups of a few hundred otherwise similar people were treated with prayer, MIT or nothing at all before cardiac surgery, and their outcomes measured and statistically analyzed. There was no difference in the outcomes in the three groups, meaning that the prayer and MIT did no more than nothing at all, meaning that they didn't even show a placebo effect. From the Lancet, July 16, 2005 (pages 211-217) from Mitchell W Krucoff et al.

“Music, imagery, touch, and prayer as adjuncts to interventional cardiac care: the Monitoring and Actualisation of Noetic Trainings (MANTRA) II randomised study”

Summary

Background

Data from a pilot study suggested that noetic therapies—healing practices that are not mediated by tangible elements—can reduce preprocedural distress and might affect outcomes in patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention. We undertook a multicentre, prospective trial of two such practices: intercessory prayer and music, imagery, and touch (MIT) therapy.

Methods

748 patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention or elective catheterisation in nine USA centres were assigned in a 2×2 factorial randomisation either off-site prayer by established congregations of various religions or no off-site prayer (double-blinded) and MIT therapy or none (unmasked). The primary endpoint was combined in-hospital major adverse cardiovascular events and 6-month readmission or death. Prespecified secondary endpoints were 6-month major adverse cardiovascular events, 6 month death or readmission, and 6-month mortality.

Findings

371 patients were assigned prayer and 377 no prayer; 374 were assigned MIT therapy and 374 no MIT therapy. The factorial distribution was: standard care only, 192; prayer only, 182; MIT therapy only, 185; and both prayer and MIT therapy, 189. No significant difference was found for the primary composite endpoint in any treatment comparison. Mortality at 6 months was lower with MIT therapy than with no MIT therapy (hazard ratio 0·35 (95% CI 0·15–0·82, p=0·016).

Interpretation

Neither masked prayer nor MIT therapy significantly improved clinical outcome after elective catheterisation or percutaneous coronary intervention.

======

That's the first step in real science: initial research of a hypothesis and generation of data. Also, there were two steps you didn't see: the study was approved and financed, meaning somebody considered it worthwhile.

And the paper was reviewed by referees for the Lancet and vetted by them, meaning that they validated the study design - was it sufficiently powered to support its conclusions - and did its methods indicate what the authors said it did.

The next step is to confirm it by reproducing the findings and/or the test of time: as related finding pile up, they other support that finding, or fail to contradict it. Other evidence that it is correct would include that the idea is used in some beneficial way, that it leads to unexpected predictions that are tested and confirmed, and/or that the idea suggests other areas of research that bore fruit.

That is what science looks like.

Your boy's material has no numbers except page numbers and other irrelevancies. There is no observation of reality: no randomized, controlled, prospective, double-blinded studies of real people looking at varying a single parameter and recording its effect on reality. There are no facts generated, no ideas that can be used to explain other observations, nor ideas that allow us to predict or control nature. Nada. Zip.

It's as sterile as religion.

There is just your boy's fervent hope for an afterlife, like yours.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#502479 Mar 12, 2013
Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth and been wanton;ye have nourished your hearts as in a day of slaughter.Ye have condemned and killed the just;and he doth not resist you.
James 5:5&6

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#502480 Mar 12, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
There shall be upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity;the sea and waves roaring;men's hearts failing them for fear,and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth;for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:25&26
19: The Earth quakes and the heavens rattle; the beasts of nature flock together and the nations of men flock apart; volcanoes usher up heat while elsewhere water becomes ice and melts; and then on other days it just rains. The Sun, it shines, too. Indeed do many things come to pass. The Book of Predictions, Chap. 19

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#502481 Mar 12, 2013
The wise men are ashamed they are dismayed and taken lo,they have rejected the word of the Lord;and what wisdom in them.Jeremiah 8:9

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502482 Mar 12, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
There shall be upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity;the sea and waves roaring;men's hearts failing them for fear,and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth;for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:25&26
An average day on planet Earth for the last 30,000 years.

And in that day the sun will shine and the moon will travel in its course. The rivers will flow and the wind doth blow.
Some will sleep while others are restless. A cow will give birth to a calf and a lion will devour a lamb.

<face palm>

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