“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#502416 Mar 12, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
If he puts a BIG boat under it and then gets a bunch of animals and...
never mind.
That's just plain ridiculous.
It isn't going to end by water this time. It will be fire.

I am building this big asbestos house and then I will get two of every animal, seven of the tasty ones......

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502417 Mar 12, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
No not interested in debate.
Just here to preach? No prob.

:)

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502418 Mar 12, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi wilderide
1 Corinthians 6:11 tells us this.. But you were "cleansed"; you were "made holy"; you were "made right with God" BY calling on the NAME of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If Knowing this makes a believer say..OH BOY, I can do WHATEVER I want now and still be saved....Did not genuinly accept Jesus Christ. How or WHY would a believer want to go back to their old life. God knew we could never obey Him Perfectly. Nobody has ever has been able to do that, except for Jesus. We Obey because we want too, NOT to earn salvation. When we become a child of God, we work in the mission fields, feed the homeless, visit the nursing homes, prisons ect..ect..because we have a New desire in our heart to do so, Not to earn anything. As an adult, When you go visit your earthly father, Do you help him work around his home because you HAVE to or because You want to without expecting anything in return? We do what we do out of Love, Honor and admiration. I understand that you don't believe and I am not pushing anything on you, I just wanted to explain this to you. I hope I was able to give a reasonable explanation as to WHY Christians...(at least most Christians) Do what we do. I don't hate an unbeliever. They are not an enemy to me. Have a nice night my friend.
And yet there are many examples of people who claim to be Christians who do terrible things regardless. So obviously the transformation you describe does not happen with any regularity. Conversely, there are many people who do live saintly lives who are not Christians. It seems logical to conclude that accepting Christ does not reliably result in a change of behavior.

The Bible claims that anyone is eligible to receive forgiveness if the believe in the story of the sacrifice of Jesus for their sins. The person's actions don't enter into it. It's not as if Jesus only suffered and died for the sins of those who would both believe and act in a certain way. Only belief is required.

And yet even that is contradicted by other passages which claim that works are required for salvation too. Paul, for example, opined that women were saved by faith and bearing children (1 Timothy 2:15), blaming Eve (and by extension all women) for the downfall of all humankind. This would seem to leave out women who were born barren.

Romans 4:2 - "For if Abraham were justified by works he hath whereof to glory?"

vs.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 - "For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

vs.

Romans 4:13 - "For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

vs.

Matthew 16:27 - "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

It's a puzzlement.

“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#502419 Mar 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>Which one, Zeus or Jupiter ?
You're silly. Jupiter is a planet. Duh.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502420 Mar 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Which one, Zeus or Jupiter ?
Ugh....

Here we go again.

A Christian asks to prove God doesn't exist and the dumb ass has to ask which god.....

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#502421 Mar 12, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
Mine goodness Epi... Things have changed a bit since those times Sister!
But... we all have ways of expressing our feelings.
I'm afraid I'm a bit less noisy than that.
>>>smile<<<
I thought you liked your pow-wows and your people?
That is "my people"...The TRIBE of Judah (Levi)

:-)

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502422 Mar 12, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
@Wilde...this is the easiest way I can think to explain it. God can see across the entire timeline at once. Visualize it like this though...say when God looks in the future lets just use you as an example and a calendar. Pick any date on the calender in the future, lets say March 15, 2014. Then imagine God in the same room but invisible watching to see what you do all day. He doesnt make you do anything, anything you do you do of your own free will but God writes down everything you did that day and doesnt tell you. Well for all practical purposes for March 15, 2014 already took place. You cant do something diff than you already chose to do once on March 15, 2014 when March 15, 2014 rolls around in present time. God watching to see what decisions you made never took away your free will to make them
But again, if the future is knowable, then fate exists, and free will is impossible. Let's imagine God did not create fate, but can only see it. You still can't do otherwise. If you look at what you wrote "You cant do something diff..", you yourself seem to grasp this. You can't do anything differently. That means you have no free will. If you aren't omniscient you might not realize you have no free will, but that doesn't mean you aren't still an unknowing slave to fate. Assuming the future is predestined.

But if God, who purportedly created everything, is not responsible for fate, then who is? Did the creator and one who set the universe in motion really have nothing to do with the consequences?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502423 Mar 12, 2013
Adam wrote:
Chapter 170
God says thus to the man who shall faithfully serve him: "I know your works, that you work for me. As I live eternally, your love shall not exceed my bounty. Because you serve me as God your creator, knowing yourself to be my work, and ask nought of me save grace and mercy to serve me faithfully; because you set no end to my service, seeing you desire to serve me eternally: even so will I do, for I will reward you as if you were God, my equal. For not only will I place in your hands the abundance of paradise, but I will give you myself as a gift, so that, even as you are fain to be my servant for ever, even so will I make your wages forever."'
Wow, Adam posted something that didn't involve gay male sex! Bravo Adam, you are making progress.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502426 Mar 12, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
Evil is not outside of God's plan, as far as I can understand it. However, much like Job and what I've already written to you, part of a Christian's refinement is to resist and rebuke the evil that is allowed to test them. By resisting temptation, not an easy thing, resisting the evil concepts of the world and resisting the evil within. A Christian is not meant to embrace evil but resist it, in order to pass the test, so to speak.
So God is responsible for evil and inflicts it on humans to test them. And the consequences for failing the test is eternal damnation? Or will your faith alone save you, and succumbing to evil does not ultimately matter? Moreover, if God is omniscient, what is the point of such testing? It seems like gratuitous pain and suffering at the hands of a not-so benevolent God.
babysan

United States

#502429 Mar 12, 2013
I am a recent convert to atheism. What can I say? I decided to grow up and embrace reality.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502431 Mar 12, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't speak for all homosexuals.
That may be YOUR view, and you're entitled to it.
I don't give a rats ass about gays, Wilde, I don't. But to say that they are "normal" is a pointless and baseless arguement.
When did I purport to speak for anyone but myself?

To say that gays are normal or not is irrelevant to anyone beyond the person making such a subjective statement. Your problem is that you confuse subjective opinion for facts in the world at large.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502432 Mar 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>they require both. But if one believes and don't have access to the bible or a church, YWHW will lead that person to act in a way pleasing to YHWH.
But if salvation requires both, then you just greatly reduced the sacrifice of Jesus, because now it's not sufficient in itself.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#502434 Mar 12, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I'm honest?
A single tear rolls down my cheek....
If somebody says they can't stand black people, does he get points for honesty?

Come on, dude.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502435 Mar 12, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, Adam posted something that didn't involve gay male sex! Bravo Adam, you are making progress.
It's a miracle!

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#502436 Mar 12, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't speak for all homosexuals.
That may be YOUR view, and you're entitled to it.
I don't give a rats ass about gays, Wilde, I don't. But to say that they are "normal" is a pointless and baseless arguement.
Right.

You told us you have anal sex with your wife.

Some would say that's not "normal".

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502437 Mar 12, 2013
dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
g_0_d is not only dumb ass,but also brain inside burnt up by drugs,alcohol and own delusions causing his inside of his 0.1% brain only few black holes
What about his outside brain?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502438 Mar 12, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I purport to speak for anyone but myself?
To say that gays are normal or not is irrelevant to anyone beyond the person making such a subjective statement. Your problem is that you confuse subjective opinion for facts in the world at large.
OK, if you keep using words like "purport", this conversation is over.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502439 Mar 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If somebody says they can't stand black people, does he get points for honesty?
Come on, dude.
Oh Gawd, Catcher. Don't compare gays to races....

I don't mind gays at all. I can accept them for who they are. I'll never berate them or criticize them or attack them just because they're gay (aside from a gay joke here & there).

I just can't see them as normal.

Big deal.

I don't have to.

Chances are, some of them don't see me as normal. They don't have to.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#502440 Mar 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Right.
You told us you have anal sex with your wife.
Some would say that's not "normal".
Yup, they probably would.

Do you have a point?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#502441 Mar 12, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>Reasonable? iyai!lol.
You must think you dealing with a human when it comes to YHWH.
Most Christians anthropomorphize Yahweh. And after all, in Genesis doesn't it say humans were created in Yahweh's image? What is the significance of that statement? God is like humans when you want to rationalize it's behavior, and then not like humans when you can't explain it's actions rationally?
My thing is, everybody will not have access to the bible. millions of people have lived and died since Christ was on earth and never have the bible or hear of Jesus. I don't believe all of those people are in hell.
It would be unfair, but that doesn't mean it's not what happens. The idea of eternal torute and suffering with no hope of redemption for the sin of guessing wrong in life is itself as unfair a thing as can be imagined anyway.
I believe YHWH has a special eternal punishment, substantially more punishing, than a person who die just out of naturally being evil and wicked, than a person that die knowing the gospel of Jesus Christ, and choose to refuse the gift.
It sounds like you just make up your ideology as you go along.
YHWH has a right to be insulted, angry and vengeful that someone would reject the sacrifice of the Son Jesus Christ.
Why? Didn't God know in advance what would happen? Moreover, if belief in the sacrifice were so important to God then God could provide objective evidence for it, rather than expecting people to believe such a story on it's face with no proof (and then punishing them forever for guessing wrong). It's like God punishes only the intelligent people, but saves the gullible. Or at least the gullible who have the good luck to fall into Christianity's hands first rather than some other religion.
Same I believe the opposite. That many of those millions of people that died never hearing about Jesus Christ, will be saved. God won't punish someone that never had a chance to reject a gift. The gift of Christ was never presented to them so they could not reject. YHWH will save many of those people based by means that I don't know.
Really? Where does it say that in the Bible? Or is that what you'd like to believe?
So YHWH does not need the bible to save someone. How a person condemn themselves, is to know about YHWH Son the Christ, and reject that gift. That soul have some explaining to do to YHWH why they reject the Christ.
What if someone rejects Christ simply because they don't believe a story with no evidence to back it up? If someone said the same thing to you about Islam, or Scientology, you'd think it was ridiculous.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 2 min Stilgar Fifrawi 797,354
Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 3 min June VanDerMark 568,723
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 11 min Rick in Kansas 267,639
Thousands march in Holocaust memorial (Apr '06) 17 min Clear Dharma 527
There is Everything Wrong with Abortion (Nov '07) 19 min Grunt56 221,553
I live with my cousin, we had sex and we loved it. 37 min Ed Teach 16
New World Order: Redistribution of the world we... 53 min Doctor REALITY 1
Blaming Israel for carnage (Jul '06) 2 hr Just Think 120,799
Scientific proof for God's existence 7 hr karl44 649
More from around the web