Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#501558 Mar 10, 2013
Illuminatrix wrote:
<quoted text>
So you were messing with me? LOL
BTW, I am always 'messing with you'. If I didn't like you I would be insulting or ignoring you. <snile>

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#501559 Mar 10, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. yep. If you're going to cheat, you get to carry the guilt ..
Agreed.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#501560 Mar 10, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>...
1) Continue to reject even the most reasonable answers supported by scripture...
Another reason I reject Christianity.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#501561 Mar 10, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
... So many read Revelation 3 as if it is intended for all people when it plainly speaks to the "messenger" of the 7 churches...
Note that the "7 churches" are the Gentile Churches of Paul.
This supports the theory that it was a warning against Paul's anti-Jewish teachings.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501562 Mar 10, 2013
As far as your next comment, based upon what I know of religious beliefs, I think I can agree that there are some people more committed to the beliefs than others, certainly, whether by strict adherence to the doctrine(say dietary constraints or a ritual observed) or by observing that the person doesn't observe those practices at all, or the degree to which they observe them. Example: No lemons; you see the person eating a lemon, but they avoid limes - both are supposed to be avoided.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
I question that. And my doubt strengthens the longer I'm in Topix. I've come to the conclusion that many people claim to believe in "God." But, reading these posts, I've come to the conclusion that some that make the claim aren't actually sure what it is they believe. I think that some claim to believe in "God," but not because they love "God." Rather, it's because they're afraid of being tormented forever in hell.
I can somewhat agree with what you state above.

With the caveat; Whether a belief is created by fear, desire, love, or by some other process, it's still a belief. You or I might not agree about if those are correct reasons for believing, but as far as that person is concerned. They believe. Like I said in the prefaced part above, we might determined dedication to the belief(in practice or observation), but we can't say they don't believe. Or do believe, for that matter.

They could very well follow every practice, ritual and constraint to the letter, and not believe at all. But we can't say they don't, unless they say:

"No, I do not believe this"

All it takes, however, is to say; "I believe this", and we pretty much have to accept they do, no matter if they suck at it.

I'm not going to dispute that they do. No matter if I think they don't do it like I think they should, I'm not going to say they don't as an absolute statement.

In thinking about it, the only way you can say a person believes in something they say they don't, is if, for example, Bob says he doesn't believe taking vitamins is beneficial. Tomorrow, you see Bob taking vitamins, and saying he believes it's beneficial, and even then, he may have picked up that belief after he made the earlier statement.

Belief is a strange beast, no?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#501563 Mar 10, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. really? For me, a spiritual experience is just that, a spiritual experience, no explanation or dogma necessary ..
Perhaps you haven't had both as their religions teach their followers to have them.
.. in cultures with rigid religious beliefs, that would be somewhat correct however there's always an exception to the rule. Some humans turn from Christianity and become free thinkers, Buddhists or Muslim ..
I'm sorry, I really don't see how that speaks to my point. Spiritual experience is defined through the social - religions train people to experience spiritual in circumscribed ways. Believers learn to ignore sensory input not important to their experience, to carve out that realm of experience that reflects, reproduces their religion's "way of understanding the world around them."

Have you read Thomas Khun?
.. a determinism under which free will, time, motion and change are all illusory (Parmenides philosophy)..
Ok.
.. Newberg is simply stating that religious experiences have not been scientifically reduced to simple brain activity. Until science proves all consciousness emergent, Newberg is correct ..
If that's the argument he's making, it's not a great one. Science does't work like that. It gathers evidence and builds models to explain the evidence. Thus far, the neuronal model of consciousness explains what we observe, despite that it cannot articulate the experience of consciousness - but I am not convinced that it needs to.

That's like claiming that the physics definition of red must also include the feeling one gets when first laying eyes on a spring rose, or jumping back because you nearly put your hand on a hot stove.

The description of experience may not lie within the boundaries of science, but that doesn't mean that we cannot explain the origin of experience.
QUESTION TO NEWBERG:“Do you think your research shows that religious experience is completely reducible to brain activity? Is God all in my head?”
ANSWER:“It might seem that way,” he began,“but I don't think the research necessarily points to that conclusion. This may be a simplistic way of looking at it, but if I were to take a brain scan of somebody who is looking at a piece of apple pie, I can tell you what their brain is doing when they have the experience of seeing that apple pie. But I can't tell you whether or not that piece of apple pie exists in reality based on the scan.
Likewise, if I take a brain scan of a Franciscan nun who has the experience of being in the presence of God, I can tell you what her brain is doing during the experience but I can't tell you whether or not God was really there, whether the experience represented a true reality. Neuroscience can't answer that epistemological
question.”
http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j29/con...
.. what do you find false about that quote ??..
Nothing at all. It backs up my previous statement about red.

I don't find a lack of perfect understanding of human experience to be a compelling reason to theorize an afterlife. I would find the discovery of a "soul detector" compelling (some future technology that demonstrates the existence of dimensions we cannot so far measure).
.. absolutely agree, we have but today ..
<quoted text>
.. eyes misting ..
<quoted text>
.. if only this could be the standard for Topix debate. You make me think, even tap into my spirituality with your knowledge (case in point: the Yanomami). Now, when can we slip under the sheets and do some shrooms ??..
hmmm....that would be nice :) Best to do them a couple hours before, though, then bathe in our arms, let our scents struggle and mingle.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#501564 Mar 10, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. conflict is created because both sides make statements that support their particular view. At present, neither have the complete picture ..
I fully support the conflict, or as I would phrase it, the competition of ideas. My side is just me.

I think I see a very large picture, in great detail.
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. if we'd end the constant squabbles on Topix, we might be able to get closer to the truth ..
That's a big "if", and a very small "might".
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. science and religion are compatible. Each must be respected ..
Science does not and should not compromise, so for a religion to be compatible with science, it must be subordinate to it. I don't think religion must be respected either. Respect that is not earned is not valuable as a commodity.

A religion can be compatible with science. A religion can be respected. Do any religions like that exist?
mike

AOL

#501565 Mar 10, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>My learning experience was much different. For the most part, I learned the bible on my own. And like you, I don't expect anyone to study the bible with as much intensity as I have. But, then again, not all should have to. For those that haven't, or even can't, there's people like myself that's studied for all of us. Well, that's what I originally believed, anyway. I learned the hard way that people like myself aren't so readily accepted.
<quoted text>No offense intended! You said that the term "flesh" made you chuckle. Your reaction reminded me of how "Beavis and Butthead" reacted when they heard certain words.
<quoted text>For the record, I used the term "flesh" in the literal sense. To reiterate... 1-Breath of Life plus 1-Flesh, or Skin We Exist In equals 1-Soul.
<quoted text>I used to think that way, too. But, then, I've come to the conclusion that of the almost 7-billion people on this planet, at least one has got to know "for sure."
<quoted text>I question that. And my doubt strengthens the longer I'm in Topix. I've come to the conclusion that many people claim to believe in "God." But, reading these posts, I've come to the conclusion that some that make the claim aren't actually sure what it is they believe. I think that some claim to believe in "God," but not because they love "God." Rather, it's because they're afraid of being tormented forever in hell. Their belief is based on a choosing between the lesser of two evils. EVIL 1: Believe in "God," even with doubt, and hope we don't go to hell. EVIL 2: Reject a belief in "God" and hope hell isn't real.
I hope I made sense.
You made alot of sense.

You are so full of yourself, a self appointed pimp/pastor.

Who confirms your position?...

Who confirms what you think you know?

Why hasn't a GOD taken you up, why have you been left behind?

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501566 Mar 10, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Their belief is based on a choosing between the lesser of two evils. EVIL 1: Believe in "God," even with doubt, and hope we don't go to hell. EVIL 2: Reject a belief in "God" and hope hell isn't real.
I hope I made sense.
Yeah, I don't think if the theist believes in his deity, and accepts the doctrine of that belief, he can do what you described above. He might try to look for portions of the deity/religious belief to state there is no hell, and I've seen Christians do that. Maybe it's supported, maybe it isn't. Those that believe there is a hell in Christianity, would disagree that it isn't supported, and those that don't believe there is a hell in Christianity, would also disagree with those that do believe in a hell.

That'd be their belief.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to dispute what a Christian(or any person)says they believe, and say they don't believe it. If a Christian says they believe something I can't say they don't.

You might enjoy this in relation to your above comment:

The Hell! Law says that Hell! is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell! is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't. HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501568 Mar 10, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>Dr parnia book has nothing to do with religion.
I did not bring up this scientific discovery for you to somehow choose religion.
I already told you only YHWH God makes the Jesus Follower. It is none of my business whether you become religious or choose Jesus or Krishna or Whoever.
The Scientific Fact, is that You. Your "self", what plato called the "psyche" known more broadly as the "soul" is a separate and distinct entity from the human brain.
All the NDE'S and ADE's that have been documented for decades where people scoffed and say it was hallucinations or a chemical reaction or drugs from the resusitation process, Science now says there is no way, the brain had anything to do with that.
Yes NDE's and ADE's have been around forever. But it was always in the realm of the religious, now its scientific Fact.
Also the the AWARE research. many ADE's experience interaction with a higher being.
That is a game changer writer.
Because the soul of a person comes back to them when they body is fixed so that the soul can come back into that body. The conclusion really is since the soul and psyche is not part of the brain, if you die and did not get resuscitated, what happens to your soul?
This is now my summary, but I say that soul will be judged, by a higher being, namely God.
Your soul exist, outside of your brain. Scientific Fact.
What happens to that soul if your body is destroyed, you can believe your soul floats around forever in a bed of roses if you like.
Supply your evidence, so far all I'm seeing is you asserting something to be so. Give some links to your claims or something.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#501569 Mar 10, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you haven't had both as their religions teach their followers to have them.
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, I really don't see how that speaks to my point. Spiritual experience is defined through the social - religions train people to experience spiritual in circumscribed ways. Believers learn to ignore sensory input not important to their experience, to carve out that realm of experience that reflects, reproduces their religion's "way of understanding the world around them."
Have you read Thomas Khun?
<quoted text>
Ok.
<quoted text>
If that's the argument he's making, it's not a great one. Science does't work like that. It gathers evidence and builds models to explain the evidence. Thus far, the neuronal model of consciousness explains what we observe, despite that it cannot articulate the experience of consciousness - but I am not convinced that it needs to.
That's like claiming that the physics definition of red must also include the feeling one gets when first laying eyes on a spring rose, or jumping back because you nearly put your hand on a hot stove.
The description of experience may not lie within the boundaries of science, but that doesn't mean that we cannot explain the origin of experience.
<quoted text>
Nothing at all. It backs up my previous statement about red.
I don't find a lack of perfect understanding of human experience to be a compelling reason to theorize an afterlife. I would find the discovery of a "soul detector" compelling (some future technology that demonstrates the existence of dimensions we cannot so far measure).
<quoted text>
hmmm....that would be nice :) Best to do them a couple hours before, though, then bathe in our arms, let our scents struggle and mingle.
I agree with Hiding on this "debate" (sorry HL), and this is the critical statement (by Hiding):

"The description of experience may not lie within the boundaries of science, but that doesn't mean that we cannot explain the origin of experience."

This doesn't mean we can, today, explain the origin (and nature) of experience, but this should be the quest. To want more is to engage wishful thinking, in my view.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501570 Mar 10, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I've not anything to say except that I agree with you 100%. Before we're anything, we're human. And every human-being deserves to live the life that's been given them.
Thanks. I ask this, try to instill that thought in the people around you that might not feel the same.

No one deserves to be treated as less than another.
You know we(all here) debate, argue, jump up and down and get heated. These venues are good for that.

All I can say is. I'm "that guy", were you not there to help, that if your wife was broken down on the side of the road on a remote roadside, or in a bad part of town at 3AM , you'd want to stop and render assistance.

If it was within my ability to do so, she'll get home safe and secure, and tell you about the guy that stopped to help.

I know that's easy enough to say here, but I do mean that.

hahahaa

EVEN IF THERE WERE JESUS STICKERS ALL OVER THE CAR!

That makes no difference to me. I'd stop.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501571 Mar 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You atheists crack me up. First you say God isn't real, then you try to prove to me or convince me that He lives in the sky....
Which is it?
God has no address, so I can't tell you, based on the Bible, exactly where He is, but i know He's beyond the sky.
Science will not enable us to be closer to God or to find the true whereabouts of God's location.
“The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say,‘Here it is,’ or ‘there it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.”
-Jesus
Luke 17
If we were discussing Thor right now, and you said from what you'd read of the myth, you thought his hammer was made of Titanium, and I said from what I'd read, I thought the myth indicated it was "magical iron".

Does not mean we believe Thor is real.

We are making observations based upon a mythic story.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501572 Mar 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Your son's gonna looooove that!
I know my 16 year old boy would love to loan his bed to a cute 19 year old girl....
Make sure you change the sheets.
Yeah, I typed that when he was standing behind me.

It was his idea to put the part about the foot odor in.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501573 Mar 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
This is where experience & wisdom comes into play.
1. Don't cheat.
OR
2. Don't tell.
derp
Just don't cheat.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#501574 Mar 10, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Well to b serious for a second I found that out. In fact considering some of the things I saw after made me realize I was lucky to only get the year as they hand those sentences and much worse out like candy and for far less. Not to mention they brought over 100 people in under supeona and it took them 18 months to even charge me. If I was black or didnt have a good lawyer or wasnt college educated with people fighting for me I probably would have gotten worse. This country still has indentured servitude and slavery. They just re-named it. The system is set up to screw the poor and for people to fail. And that's when they play fair which they often don't as I'm sure you know. Not that everybody is innocent but who they target, why, and howw plays a huge role
One time, I was accused of stealing a $30 dollar camera from a yard sale. When the police first came to my house, just a few hours later, to make me aware of the accusation, I straightway offered him full access to my house. He refused after numerous requests. The next morning, he returned with a search warrant and a warrant for my arrest. They found nothing and I, without resistance, was taken into custody. After three court appearances, I was found guilty of "felony larceny," granted "time served," given 1-year of "supervised" probation, and a $1,000 dollar fine. Here's the funny part to my most unfortunate story, though.

1) It was witnessed by both attorneys and those in the courtroom that while in the courtroom, the plaintiff's tears flowed almost uncontrollably. But, during recesses and outside the courtroom, she filled the air with laughter and jesting.

2) It was stated by my wife and her boyfriend that there was no recollection of my shopping her yard-sale items, at all. During our second appearance, she changed her testimony to say that the camera was actually in her house and not among the yard-sale items.

3) During our first appearance, she claimed that the camera was brand new and still in the box, and that I had shoved the whole package, box and all, into my back pocket. During our second appearance, she brought the actual box and a receipt as proof of the type of camera it was and the price of it. Included was her further testimony that she was more concerned with the memory card that came with the camera because of all the pictures she had taken of her newborn child that were saved on it.

4) A week prior to my going to her house, I had been hit by a car. I suffered temporary amnesia, 6-broken ribs, a torn rotator-cuff (left shoulder), a dislocated right shoulder, a dislocated hip, and a dislocated knee. My attorney asked her that if her and her boyfriend witnessed my stealing her camera, as according to her testimony, then why didn't any of them try to stop me considering the condition I was in? She said they were afraid of me.

5) During our third appearance, her boyfriend admitted to my attorney that the camera wasn't stolen, but the judge wouldn't allow him to take the stand. He admitted that she had a drug addiction and thought that her plan would bring her fast money, to get more drugs.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501575 Mar 10, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I got wood! Hallelujah!
It was a pretty straight white oak. It didn't have any large branches for 20 ft so it should split easily. I hope. I'll find out tomorrow. I think it was probably standing dead for 3 or 4 years. My mom and dad will probably burn it if it gets colder again. They ran through their supply already.
I have access to some shagbark hickories but they're all alive so I won't take them. I should have enough standing dead trees to work with this spring. I wish I could find enough ash, but there's just not enough of it.
I cut one shagbark hickory two years ago that was struck by lightning. That was before I had my 346XP. I think I used a little Craftsman saw. It struggled. I think it was even shooting sparks.
Good deal. When a saw kicks sparks like that, either the bar needs oil, or, the tree has small rocks(sand size, even) in the grain as it has grown. I avoid pine just for that reason, it picks everything up. It's similar to cutting sandpaper. Always keep that in mind.

I've cut trees that had a a good sized rock in the exact middle of the trunk, 30 ft off the ground.

Old spikes, all kinds of stuff.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#501576 Mar 10, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I got wood! Hallelujah!
It was a pretty straight white oak. It didn't have any large branches for 20 ft so it should split easily. I hope. I'll find out tomorrow. I think it was probably standing dead for 3 or 4 years. My mom and dad will probably burn it if it gets colder again. They ran through their supply already.
I have access to some shagbark hickories but they're all alive so I won't take them. I should have enough standing dead trees to work with this spring. I wish I could find enough ash, but there's just not enough of it.
I cut one shagbark hickory two years ago that was struck by lightning. That was before I had my 346XP. I think I used a little Craftsman saw. It struggled. I think it was even shooting sparks.
Nice avatar.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#501577 Mar 10, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. I ask this, try to instill that thought in the people around you that might not feel the same.
No one deserves to be treated as less than another.
You know we(all here) debate, argue, jump up and down and get heated. These venues are good for that.
All I can say is. I'm "that guy", were you not there to help, that if your wife was broken down on the side of the road on a remote roadside, or in a bad part of town at 3AM , you'd want to stop and render assistance.
If it was within my ability to do so, she'll get home safe and secure, and tell you about the guy that stopped to help.
I know that's easy enough to say here, but I do mean that.
hahahaa
EVEN IF THERE WERE JESUS STICKERS ALL OVER THE CAR!
That makes no difference to me. I'd stop.
If they doubt that you would stop...it might mean that some have taken "enemy" and "wicked" beyond what it is supposed to mean.

On the flip side...

I think we have to ask ourselves...if they don't support what we do...do they become the "enemy" and "wicked"?

IMO It is not what someone believes it is what they do with those beliefs and how they impose them on to others.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#501578 Mar 10, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nice.
Sorry, baby, I haven't been bullying anyone on here. You're just upset b/c I'm demonstrating that your religious beliefs are imagined realities. Tough.
Your inability to argue against me creates your desperate need to label me as a bad person - so you can maintain your illusions. No worries. Keep them.
So you say. Which means diddle squat

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