Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#491073 Feb 19, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
You see that the concept of "love" is not universally defined.
I think much of Christian theology can only be described as a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe Battered Spouse Syndrome would be a better explanation.
Having been a battered spouse, I can assure you it is not like knowing JESUS. Not even sure why you posted this, because I have lost so many pages, but let me tell you from experience, being scared to death is literally scary. Not sure if you recall when I wrote that I took my 2 children and 'ran away' with them, and encountered evil where I was living. This was the start of continual Prayer, and the encounter with the Golden Labrador that came knocking on my door..... Amazing stuff!!

Thank GOD for being there; but I guess we only thank HIM when we know HE has been there when we needed HIM.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#491074 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You are absolutely correct here. I don't "just have faith" in treatments that cannot be shown to have any effect outside of the placebo effect (the social meaning system).
It's a failing, probably. I just can't believe in all that crazy stuff.
And the funny thing is, practitioners of faith-based healing systems often say things like "if you don't believe, it won't work" and "when you scientists come around, it never works!"
You know, there was a medical anthropologist, a skeptic, who studied a kind of African sorcery and magical healing. He started out by saying "this isn't medically real" and, by the end, actually became a shaman and changed his position to "belief is the most important part of healing."
The funny thing is that I understand that position, but I just can't live it - and you understand it more than me! Well done :)
I just have huge FAITH :)

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#491075 Feb 19, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sorry, don't mean to butt in between twins, but... had any dreams lately Serah??? >>>HUGS<<< Sister Friend.
You could never butt in PW ~ we are linked :)

Just one small incident - my daughter jumped off a ledge, and I told her not to do it, and she broke her leg (in my dream that is) but the reality was a couple of weeks later, an argument between a couple of men who had drunk too much, and one hit the other and parents and relatives were getting involved.

While I was busy calming down one situation, my daughter was outside yelling at the mother of one of them that had been hit.... I still think she should have stayed out of it, but there you are, these little dreams are just perhaps forewarning us for some reason.

I'll drag out the dreams that I was listing in my journal/book, before I stopped writing of them, because they were a lot more specific and not just of a simple situation :)

(((HUGS))) also to you, Sister from the North and I hope to see your words again soon xx

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#491076 Feb 19, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Always up to talk about almost any subject and give another worldview... unless of course someone brings it back up then I may simply give my opinion on it or some other data.
Sometimes taking a break allows time to gather our thoughts. Beating a dead horse does little to help anyone.

How about the recent investigation on Gethsemane being a wineyard and winepress facility rather than a private 'garden'?

The word means "winepress" but some argue it could have been used for making olive oil as well.
It does present a different image than the lush garden portrayed in Christian artwork.

The English translation also may indicate a building rather than an outdoor area. Note the similarities to "Kindergarden" and "Beer Garden".

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491077 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't seem to realize that you're making excuses for God's removal of "sacred" free will and caveats for having it.
The Pharaoh in Moses' time and the other Pharaoh's which proceeded him closed their eyes to the suffering of the Hebrews under them... through depopulation efforts they killed their kid (starting with Exodus chapter 1) and they would have done the same to Moses' and you already know the story about how he was drawn fromt the water by one of Pharaoh's relative. So anyways, they hardened their own hearts. When one hardens their heart to the cries of the poor and shows no mercy that is one thing... but when God begins to hardens a person heart it is because that is what that person has sown and it is time for God's judgement (that is, pay back). No excuses, just biblical facts and spiritual truths.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't believe that God perfectly created the universe and planned everything out? It's kind of random, but he knows the outcome?
I believe God perfectly created it both "deterministic" and "indeterministic" (free will)... Like Adam and Eve for example, God didn't create them so that they could sin later... but He knew what would happen if they sinned - they would die not only naturally but a 2nd spiritual death. And God knew what would happen if they chose to trust God and not sin. In this instance, their was mutual trust so what A&E would choose was indeterministic. I say mutual trust because when they sinned God didn't know about it... What did God say when He arrived on the scene? Adam, where are you?

In Judas case, he was simply up to no good... not only the betrayal but he would often steal money that was meant for alms for the poor. Now like us, sometimes it is easy to spot someone on the street who is up to no good but God simply has better perception with these types. Those are my views.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491078 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
hahaha! I have to admit, I burst out laughing with your words - totally funny.
Allow me to distill them: "God is all loving, so He Created hell, a place of eternal torture, for His favored Creation. He will Lovingly send His Creation to hell. God Created hell because He is honest."
No kidding you don't "believe" in biological science. With the kind of rationality you've demonstrated above, I can't imagine why you'd accept the precepts of evidenced based reasoning, either.
Actually, the lake of fire (hell is different) was originally prepared for the devil and his angels due to their sin...(Matthew 25:41)... but because of sin that entered into human race God has to judge that too. That is why Jesus came and died for us... to spare us from that eternal fire. Jesus didn't die for the angels that sinned though, only for human beings. The angels knew better than to rebel but they did so anyways.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#491079 Feb 19, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>well lady you say this---
[First, I do not believe in the concept of "free will" nor the concept of a Creator-deity. So...I see the responsibility of the repercussions of human action falling squarely on human actors within a social network and society]
Ok then. No one making you believe on Jesus or a Creator. But in your own words you must agree Judas responsible for his own actions.
So to sum up you writings, People make Choices. It no matter for whatever sociological or psychological or whatever brand of study you want to put to it. You say People make Choices. And people are responsible and accountable for those choices.
You CHOSE not to believe a deity exist. You CHOSE not to believe in a free will. You CHOSE to be an atheist/freethinker.
YOU CHOSE.
I no care what motives or what explanations you give, you no answer to me.
Never before has such an important point of mine been so utterly misunderstood and mis-stated. You left out the context and constraint within which people are able to make choices. Let's take another look at what I wrote, since you missed the nuanced meaning:
Hiding wrote:
Sure, you are capable of making choices - but you know what, you make choices because of who you are, your past, and everything in your life. They're predictable, not random, and usually have some kind of rationality to them. Hence, the disciplines of psychology, sociology, history and anthropology are able to study and make sense of human action.
So, to answer your question, there are multiple levels of responsibility. The society that creates social inequalities, thereby restricting access to wealth, food and health resources. The culture that promotes alcohol as a relaxant and social drink, while largely covering up or ignoring its more dangerously addictive qualities. Individuals who fall into certain paths that lead them into stress and drugs. The bar for needing profits, the bartender for needing tips, the customer for becoming inebriated and making poor choices, the friends for not getting the customer home, the lack of public transportation options that would enable safe passage home, etc.
So no, I did not have a choice to become an atheist or disbelieve in your particular deity. I am the product of my life. My personal journey through development, education and an ongoing battle with maturity led me to the atheist position I hold.

We cannot separate "I" from "everything that has happened to 'I' from birth through development to adulthood."

You were encultured to be a Christian. For all kinds of reasons, you were unable to not be a Christian. Had you a different upbringing, you'd be a different person. Choice has nothing to do with your Christianity - you only have the illusion of choice.

Some of the atheists here grew up in Christian cultures, like you. They tacitly perform Christian culture, though they reject Christianity and its belief system. However, their maturation brought them into contact with ways of thinking that they could not ignore - you can.

I don't believe for a second that you could just choose to be an atheist - you value the spiritual experiences you've had through your faith and, for you, they reinforce your subjective reality.

Unlike you, I'm incapable of experiencing your subjective reality with such naivety. Oh, I can share in the spiritual experiences you have - or in Buddhism, or whatever - but unlike you, I understand how those experiences are shaped by the social, made real by social and cultural forces and produced in and by physical, material brains and bodies.

Free will doesn't exist; you have the illusion of choice. But the chooser - you - is the product of the cumulative myriad bits of your past.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#491080 Feb 19, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
When are we going to see these "brilliant" ideas of yours?
You? Never. That was one that whooshed over your head.

Your mind is as unprepared for such ideas as it would be for the same ideas written in Mandarin.

I noted earlier that one excellent reason for skeptics and humanists to be post on these Topix threads is to learn from one another - that this can be considered "atheist school."

But there is nothing there for you except maybe the odd remedial English lesson if you can understand it.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You're as welcome to my opinion of you as anybody else.
Counter_Strike wrote:
Sorry, invitation denied.
Did you mean "declined"?

Invitations are not denied. Claims, applications, appeals, accusations and the like are.

Some of you Christians have become much more agitated with me lately. Since I have been as anti-ecclesiastical as possible right from the beginning, it must be due to my call to all good Christians to take a stand against Dim. Even Lil Whiskas has come out of the her cat box hissing and with claws bared to retaliate.

Sorry if I make you uncomfortable.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491081 Feb 19, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>These things have a way of working themselves out through economics. Corruption...Prejudice maybe...good luck defining that one too. I suppose there are those instances where the line gets crossed in some ways, but not enough to define "law", or incursion...like LW says...it'll all come out in the wash...I just thought I would put my 2 cents worth in for what little it is worth in the big picture...
Thanks Capn... I most definitely appreciate it....and Chick-fil-et still got support for a store in Chicagoland. So Chick-fil-et won that battle at least when it really shouldn't have been a battle imho.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#491082 Feb 19, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>...The angels knew better than to rebel but they did so anyways.
But that is the same arguement against mankind esp. Adam and Eve.

So why does God hate angels so much that they are not offered forgiveness ?

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491083 Feb 19, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes taking a break allows time to gather our thoughts. Beating a dead horse does little to help anyone.
How about the recent investigation on Gethsemane being a wineyard and winepress facility rather than a private 'garden'?
The word means "winepress" but some argue it could have been used for making olive oil as well.
It does present a different image than the lush garden portrayed in Christian artwork.
The English translation also may indicate a building rather than an outdoor area. Note the similarities to "Kindergarden" and "Beer Garden".
Winepress would be symbolically significant imho.. as red wine represents blood biblically (usually)...

Jesus: "Take, drink this is my blood..." But if I remember correctly it was more of an olive garden or olivepress... olive-oil would be symbolically significant also as the olives are "crushed" in order to yield into oil eventually... oil represents "the anointing" biblically (usually):

"But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was CRUSHED for our iniquities..." Isaiah 53:5

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491084 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, that's kind of you.
I don't excuse anyone. Or maybe I excuse everyone. I don't think you really understood my words. Allow me to paraphrase: Christians aren't especially bad people. Their religion is like any other in that it makes impossible, non-objectively real claims that are subjectively real to its believers.
You'll note that doesn't speak to atheists. Some of the topix posters here are not actually atheists, but simply non-believers. There's a subtle difference. I'm full on atheist. And, unlike other atheists, I understand that my stance is one of belief - I believe in the non-existence of deities. Not just your particular one that (notice I'm not using "who" purposefully) has captured your mind, but all of them - just like you are an atheist with regards to every deity but your own.
To quote Dawkins "I just go one god further" than you in my disbelief.
Thanks for the info... Dawkins is absolutely correct when he say he goes "one god further"... if it is meant in the context I think that he is saying it in.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#491086 Feb 19, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
But that is the same arguement against mankind esp. Adam and Eve.
So why does God hate angels so much that they are not offered forgiveness ?
You are now encroaching on the definition and description of ANG[EL] and "in our image". One which will also require a definitive frame of time of/for the creation of each, and/or both in order to ascertain the purpose and duties of either.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491087 Feb 19, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
But that is the same arguement against mankind esp. Adam and Eve.
So why does God hate angels so much that they are not offered forgiveness ?
Because they were actually in the very Presence of God in heaven... more powerful than us and having lived in heaven they know better from on-hand experience, so to speak. A 2nd reason is that they aren't "created" in God's image and likeness, we are. A third reason, we are more like family to God... they are more like employees.

Say you have a live-in nanny who has been with the family for a long time and enjoy certain privileges that the family enjoys... the woman of the house gets preganant and eventually give birth... who would take precedence? the child or the nanny? When it comes down to it the child (though he/she been on this earth for a short time) will always be the true family. The nanny works for the child even though she may have some authority over him/her.

In much the same way, some of those angels are like that Nanny. That is why the bible says that they are "ministering spirits" for those who are "heirs" of salvation. In another place, your Uncle Paul <<<smile>>> says that we will one judge angels.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#491088 Feb 19, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Gay/bisexuals has highest rates of HIV infection even though representing 2% of population according to this.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/
It's b/c of where they fit on the discrimination ladder. HIV travels along the lines of social inequalities.

Worldwide, HIV infects mostly heterosexual women, because of unequal access to monetary resources.

I honestly don't expect you to understand what I'm writing.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#491090 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
You don't seem to realize that you're making excuses for God's removal of "sacred" free will and caveats for having it.
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>The Pharaoh in Moses' time and the other Pharaoh's which proceeded him closed their eyes to the suffering of the Hebrews under them... through depopulation efforts they killed their kid (starting with Exodus chapter 1) and they would have done the same to Moses' and you already know the story about how he was drawn fromt the water by one of Pharaoh's relative. So anyways, they hardened their own hearts. When one hardens their heart to the cries of the poor and shows no mercy that is one thing... but when God begins to hardens a person heart it is because that is what that person has sown and it is time for God's judgement (that is, pay back). No excuses, just biblical facts and spiritual truths.
Allow me to repeat:
Hidingfromyou wrote:
You don't seem to realize that you're making excuses for God's removal of "sacred" free will and caveats for having it.
I believe God perfectly created it both "deterministic" and "indeterministic" (free will)... Like Adam and Eve for example, God didn't create them so that they could sin later... but He knew what would happen if they sinned - they would die not only naturally but a 2nd spiritual death. And God knew what would happen if they chose to trust God and not sin. In this instance, their was mutual trust so what A&E would choose was indeterministic. I say mutual trust because when they sinned God didn't know about it... What did God say when He arrived on the scene? Adam, where are you?
In Judas case, he was simply up to no good... not only the betrayal but he would often steal money that was meant for alms for the poor. Now like us, sometimes it is easy to spot someone on the street who is up to no good but God simply has better perception with these types. Those are my views.
So you're arguing that God is evil for Knowing how His Creation would behave and Creating rules for them to be punished for their Created behavior?

Ok.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#491091 Feb 19, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for the info... Dawkins is absolutely correct when he say he goes "one god further"... if it is meant in the context I think that he is saying it in.
No worries. Dawkins meant "You are atheists, too, for all gods that are not Jehovah. I simply go one god further."

Or something like that.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491092 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's b/c of where they fit on the discrimination ladder. HIV travels along the lines of social inequalities.
Worldwide, HIV infects mostly heterosexual women, because of unequal access to monetary resources.
I honestly don't expect you to understand what I'm writing.
Please post the link to that info... heterosexual woman due to prostitution and/or rapes perhaps.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#491093 Feb 19, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
if you try to demoralize my environment with what YOU think is apporiate behavior rather than what the Creator says it is, you're gonna have me up in yur grill, AND i'm gonna be consistent about it:-)
You seem to be saying that if anybody objects to their demonization according your church's version of what is appropriate, that you will fight them.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#491094 Feb 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're arguing that God is evil for Knowing how His Creation would behave and Creating rules for them to be punished for their Created behavior?
Ok.
Nope.. I didn't say or argue that at all. That is what you are attempting to project in a sort-of-subliminal way to make it seem like God is evil.

Try again in a non-subliminally way.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Secular Humanism VS Christianity 2 min Lonestar 126
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 2 min RiversideRedneck 88,119
Play "end of the word" part 2 (Dec '15) 9 min Al Capone 3,388
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 18 min New Age Spiritual... 665,309
News Medicare looms over Trump-Ryan alliance 39 min Taco-smacko 2
The Future of Politics in America 42 min Buck Crick 222
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 42 min New Age Spiritual... 977,292
Christians cannot debate with ATHEISTS 59 min Buck Crick 551
More from around the web