Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#490159 Feb 18, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Priests were jailed and killed who tried to speak out
It was a time of fear for many people
It was a time of fear for many...in Germany. The Vatican had nothing to fear - but they loved them some Hitler. Christian leaders in other countries - no problems with Hitler.

In fact, it was a few moral Catholics that helped the Jews establish the underground railway. Not Protestants and not the majority of Catholics.

But the point here isn't to say "only Christians are evil." The most important point is that Christians acted no morally better than anyone else.

And that's a serious problem for you Christians. You claim to be loved by a Perfect Deity. Not just any old deity, mind you, but a Perfectly Moral one.

Well...sorry. The actions of your churches and your fellow believers do not reflect any kind of communication, through prayer or intercedence, by the universe's only Perfectly Moral deity.

But don't worry - no people's do. So you're not alone in that. In fact, you're just like any other believer in any other religion.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#490160 Feb 18, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Priests were jailed and killed who tried to speak out
It was a time of fear for many people
Hate and fear can cause a ripple effect that lead to a tidal wave and anybody standing in its path gets swept away with little or no evidence they were ever there. But that doesn't mean they weren't. Just what could most people do against that type of power? It took a combination of countries during a world war to stop it
What situation even exists where someone can put blame either on all the church as if it is an entity of itself or all Christians?
I agree with you on the latter which you focused on and would suggest the irony that needs to be considered. Hitler was a bigot of the highest order using whatever he could to advance his personal agenda and stooping to unbelievable lows. When someone's target is Christianity and they are using Hitler in this fashion to advance their own agenda by blaming all in the faith it would seem they haven't learned the lesson history is trying to teach us.
The Holocaust was a travesty but it would a deranged and evil man who through fear and intimidation and appealing to other's hate built himself a powerbase and kept many of its activities hidden from worldview until it was too late. People blew off even the rumblings as propaganda. He invoked whatever justification he needed including religion. Anyone trying to paint Christianity by Hitler might as well paint all Muslims from 9-11. They wont of course as their hate is centered on Christians. They are not too different than those they oppose when it comes to the sweeping disdain. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting everyone that hates Christians would stoop to killing them. I am just saying the underlying motivations are bigotry.
Very true: Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I got into a bit of a disagreement with a friend some time back. I was saying that I know without a doubt where I stand on things. His point was we really can't know until (unless) we happen to be in a place as was Bonoeffer how we will react. Food for thought. Take care bro.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#490161 Feb 18, 2013
dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
I
Yeah that's nice. Thanks for reading my posts.

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#490162 Feb 18, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
*
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
*
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
*
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
*
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
*
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
*
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
*
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
*
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
*
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
*
*
Matthew Henry’s Commentary:
Romans 3:9-18 Here again is shown that all mankind are under the guilt of sin, as a burden; and under the government and dominion of sin, as enslaved to it, to work wickedness. This is made plain by several passages of Scripture from the Old Testament, which describe the corrupt and depraved state of all men, till grace restrain or change them. Great as our advantages are, these texts describe multitudes who call themselves Christians. Their principles and conduct prove that there is no fear of God before their eyes. And where no fear of God is, no good is to be looked for.
Good afternoon HFN, don't see you around here too much, how's everything with you?(:

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#490163 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's pretend your mythology is "real."
In that case, Judas had no choice. From the moment of the Creation of the Universe, God knew that Judas would betray Jesus (God). Recall that you pretend your deity is Omnipotent, Omniscient and All-loving.
Oops! We've hit a snag. Your deity can't be all that all loving if He's willing to force people into those He Hates. But, whatever, neither you nor your theologians are capable of surmounting that one...so, let's pretend that your deity is just Omniscient and Omnipotent. In that case, He Created Judas to betray Jesus. There's no alternative.
It's cute that you believe Judas had an alternative, though. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses have given up on the silly notion of "free will" within Christian doctrine.
Excellent.

In (most of)Judaism, YHWY is not omnipotent. YHWY is constrained by the laws of the Universe It created.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#490164 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's pretend your mythology is "real."
In that case, Judas had no choice. From the moment of the Creation of the Universe, God knew that Judas would betray Jesus (God). Recall that you pretend your deity is Omnipotent, Omniscient and All-loving.
Oops! We've hit a snag. Your deity can't be all that all loving if He's willing to force people into those He Hates. But, whatever, neither you nor your theologians are capable of surmounting that one...so, let's pretend that your deity is just Omniscient and Omnipotent. In that case, He Created Judas to betray Jesus. There's no alternative.
It's cute that you believe Judas had an alternative, though. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses have given up on the silly notion of "free will" within Christian doctrine.
Knowing what choice someone will make ahead time doesn't mean they didn't have a choice. That choice simply can be seen in advance

I don't understand how this keeps coming up and am not going to get into a long debate about it but according to the logic you guys employ if Ms Cleo really could see into the future it would mean man has no free will

It makes no sense. By looking into the future what one is really doing is putting themselves at a point in time where the events they are looking at have already taken place and are now part of the past. Them having the ability to do so in no way altered or dictated those events

I respect you Hiding but this particular way of thinking has never made any sense. The only way someone knowing someone else's future could possible have any impact on that person is if they told the person ahead of time what their future was. Then by knowing that it might cause them to act differently. But being able to see what someone decided to do by looking into the future in no way took away their free will. Had Judas made a different choice than that is what God would have seen by knowing the future.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#490165 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a time of fear for many...in Germany. The Vatican had nothing to fear - but they loved them some Hitler. Christian leaders in other countries - no problems with Hitler.
In fact, it was a few moral Catholics that helped the Jews establish the underground railway. Not Protestants and not the majority of Catholics.
But the point here isn't to say "only Christians are evil." The most important point is that Christians acted no morally better than anyone else.
And that's a serious problem for you Christians. You claim to be loved by a Perfect Deity. Not just any old deity, mind you, but a Perfectly Moral one.
Well...sorry. The actions of your churches and your fellow believers do not reflect any kind of communication, through prayer or intercedence, by the universe's only Perfectly Moral deity.
But don't worry - no people's do. So you're not alone in that. In fact, you're just like any other believer in any other religion.
One must also recall that millions of Christians, Muslims, Hindi, Buddhists and atheists fought and died to stop Hitler, IE: The Allied Powers. USA, Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, China, India, Russian, France, etc.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#490166 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't speak to the other nations, but you're utterly wrong on Japan. Legal age of consent in Japan, legal age to drink alcohol and vote is 20, legal age to buy cigarettes, 20.
That's two decades. Two. Not one and a bit. Two whole decades, rounded to the nearest whole number. Twenty. And when we girls have our twentieth birthday, we dress up in kimono and go prance around the town. Well...to be honest...it's more like when we're 20 on the Emperor's birthday, but sort of the same thing. So all the young girl-cum-adults are strutting their stuff, dressed up like carefully wrapped butterflies, on the same day - becoming legal.
Sorry, baby, English may not be your first language, but that doesn't excuse your inaccurate information. Use the Internet, be careful, choose reliable sources. That's what it's there for.
So if you pick up a 13 year old here, you're going to jail. Right where you belong (if you're like that, which I'm not insinuating).
But if the japaneses government wanted to change the age of consent to say 12, whats to stop them? is not that in their governmental powers to change the age of consent? that my point.

if it all about consenting laws that make homosexuality legal, why not just change the age of consent laws as well.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#490167 Feb 18, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Very true: Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I got into a bit of a disagreement with a friend some time back. I was saying that I know without a doubt where I stand on things. His point was we really can't know until (unless) we happen to be in a place as was Bonoeffer how we will react. Food for thought. Take care bro.
I hear ya brother

People love to think of themselves as the hero sitting behind the computer screen

But when one has a family and speaking out simply gets you shot and doesn't change anything I wonder how many people when the time came would die for no reason or instead would simply do their best to sneak their own family to safety?

Anybody that stood up got squashed and some still tried anyway. To place on blame on individuals like they could have done more against Nazi Germany is absurd. Somewhere between 3-10 million people were killed by most estimates and they couldn't stop it. What could one person do?

(T) Peace

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#490168 Feb 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>I understood. Other sins can be discussed (I responded to your post on the sin of adulterous marriages for example) but homosexuality was the sub-topic on hand at the time because others had put a pro-homosexual and pro-gay marriage spin on their posts so it was necessary to zoom in on that for the time being.
There's no confusion regarding that subject in the bible... it is sin. It is wrong and it affects our culture drastically. Take for example the boy scouts. I guess the only positive thing in my own view that can about that is, you know who's who and the nat'l spotlight is on the situation... so the male pedophiles who made younger males their prey aren't going to easily get away with it this time... same with the RCC.
I was under the weather for a few days so I fell behind in here, if I have missed responding to any of your posts to me I apologize. I have jumped ahead for now just to keep up.

I was addressing the fact that some use personal understanding of the Bible as justification to demean others due to what is seen as sin. If I could please ask you to clarify for me, are you are putting pedophiles into the same category as homosexuals in this post?

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#490169 Feb 18, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFLMAO
Sorry Quin but you don't think things through. Unless Jesus nailed himself to the cross, there is someone else to thank.
Caiphus, Pilate, The Jews, The Romans, etc.
If not for them you and I would be 'damned to hell'.
Actually Duane..........Jesus was sent by God for the purpose of a sacrifice to redeem all of mankind, the people that you mentioned all had a hand in his crucifiion true..........but they were given power of God just to apprehend him as the hypocrites and unbelievers had previously tried to do him harm beofre during his ministry and were unable to do so.

John 19:10-11
10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#490170 Feb 18, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What about Clearwater's wife?
She used to be perverted, wouldn't you say?
Yes, she was a pervert, was being the operative word, but now she's saved by the blood of someone named Iesous Kristos aka Jesus Christ.

Why do you ask this question Mr. Catcher?

CS.

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#490171 Feb 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not going way back to look right now unless I think I would need to... but you did make some accusatory statements regarding Christians, remarriage and such... in attempt to take the focus off of the homosexuality discussion going on at the time.
I did not think that I had made accusatory statements… I thought that I gave a balanced view. I gave links to three different discussions when it comes to what people read from the scripture when it comes to divorce. I was not attempting to take the focus off of homosexuality, I was trying to shine a light on it.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#490172 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a time of fear for many...in Germany. The Vatican had nothing to fear - but they loved them some Hitler. Christian leaders in other countries - no problems with Hitler.
In fact, it was a few moral Catholics that helped the Jews establish the underground railway. Not Protestants and not the majority of Catholics.
But the point here isn't to say "only Christians are evil." The most important point is that Christians acted no morally better than anyone else.
And that's a serious problem for you Christians. You claim to be loved by a Perfect Deity. Not just any old deity, mind you, but a Perfectly Moral one.
Well...sorry. The actions of your churches and your fellow believers do not reflect any kind of communication, through prayer or intercedence, by the universe's only Perfectly Moral deity.
But don't worry - no people's do. So you're not alone in that. In fact, you're just like any other believer in any other religion.
Like I stated in my last post (I know you haven't seen it yet, just saying) there aren't a lot of heroes in the world. It is easy to play Monday morning QB. But why do you limit it to those of religions? You say

"In fact, you're just like any other believer in any other religion"

Wouldn't the more accurate statement be people are just like people no matter where they are from?

It is weird to me you seem to single out those of faith for somehow what you see as their failing to stop something they had no power to stop and say nothing of people in general

And like you noted, it was people of faith that started things such as the underground railroad

What are you basing your statements on that Christians leaders around the country or those within the Vatican approved of Hitler? I have done a lot of research on the subject and have never seen anything that pure speculation by basically anti-Christian movements that perhaps anti-Jewish sentiment shared by some within the faith led to them not speaking out. Of course there is no proof that is the case and anybody who did speak out for the most part got jailed or killed so i don't know what they are forming their conclusions on

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#490173 Feb 18, 2013
Epiphany2 wrote:
Today's Prayer
Dear God, Today I feel led to pray for Christians to stand up for their beliefs when confronted with moral issues. I pray that we will know when, where, and what to say and do to let our voices be heard. I pray that we will be involved in our communities, schools, governments as possible. I pray that we will have the courage and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to do what is right, what is biblical, and what honors you. Thank you for the guidelines you have given us through the Holy Bible. Thank you for the leaders you have provided to inspire, teach, and guide us. Thank you for all of your provisions and blessings. With love and appreciation I come to you, Father. In the name of Jesus, amen.
Prime time with God
Amen.

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#490174 Feb 18, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
He disagreed with them.
That is the root of most of the angst on this thread.
People get pissy when their beliefs are questioned.
I beat them to it, I question my own beliefs. Then again my beliefs are pretty simple:
I believe in a Creative and Guiding Force of the Universe (God)
I believe Jesus's life and death justified ending Ritual Sacrifices.
I believe that following the teachings of Jesus can make me a better person.
I believe I do not need more than that spiritually.
I do not have a problem with being disagreed with.
I have a problem with self righteous fools using religion
to further their hate adgendas.. Whether they think they are
forcing their beliefs on others for God or not..It bothers me and I'll speak
out against it- if I choose too.

Not sure why you think you can speak for me..
Wish you wouldn't- for you aren't being truthful..

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#490175 Feb 18, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
As someone thats posted here for a time you may want to scroll. Do what you need to but many will ask questions they don't want an answer to. Its just a game. My wife lived a homosexual lifestyle for years and was set free by the blood of Jesus Christ. Glory to God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =OggJ1pIPxUEXX
I am very happy your wife has been set free Mr. Clearwater, and I'm happy you're by her side not to remind her of her past, but to reassure her of the wonderful present and an even greater future with you and by The Savior.

Shalom.

Andrew (CS).

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#490176 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a time of fear for many...in Germany. The Vatican had nothing to fear - but they loved them some Hitler.
The article is very long but you may want to scroll down to this part and then continue reading from there

The Historical Record: What Pius XII Did for the Jews

Despite allegations and misrepresentations to the contrary, it can now be documented conclusively that Pope Pius XII was responsible for saving hundreds of thousands of Jews during the Holocaust. Although the villainous "silence" of the Pope has been repeatedly alleged since the early 1960's, there is much historical evidence to confirm that he was not silent, that before and after he became Pope he spoke out against Hitler and that he was almost universally recognized, especially by the Nazis themselves, as an unrelenting opponent of the Nazi regime.

Pius XII publicly and privately warned of the dangers of Nazism. Throughout World War II, he spoke out on behalf of Europe's Jews. When Pius learned of the Nazi atrocities in Poland, he urged the bishops of Europe to do all they could to save the Jews and other victims of Nazi persecution. On January 19, 1940, at the Pope's instruction, Vatican radio and L'Osservatore Romano revealed to the world "the dreadful cruelties of uncivilized tyranny" that the Nazis were inflicting on Jewish and Catholic Poles. The following week, the Jewish Advocate of Boston reported the Vatican radio broadcast, praising its "outspoken denunciation of German atrocities in Nazi [occupied] Poland, declaring they affronted the moral conscience of mankind."

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/f...

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#490177 Feb 18, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Doctors responsible for patients at the end of their lives would be ones you would expect even more to make a personal relationship with their patient.
.. the purpose of a hospice physician is to ensure pain control, not to provide emotional or spiritual guidance. In most instances, the doctor never sees the patient ..

.. are you confusing the role of a physician and a social worker ??..

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#490178 Feb 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>If I was committing adultery, married without fornication having been involved, into beastiality or engaged in some homosexual relationship with another male and then spoke against gay marriage and the other sins then I would agree with you. That would be hypocritical.
But since I'm not engaged in neither I can speak to the sin of fornications.
Some Christians believe that simply looking at someone of the opposite sex with lust in your heart is committing adultery. I don’t agree, do you?

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