Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489866 Feb 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Right proof is a higher standard
I remember last time this came up you suggested maybe he forgot he said it and I asked you how does someone forgot they believe its possible creator gods exist?
I know the deal Hididng, IANS lies and his friends all come running to say maybe he forgot or evidence isn't proof even though he never bothered to say that is why he was denying it or jab is different than slam
He has repeated a pattern of denying what he has said
He denied he said anything to indicate all or most Christians are indoctrinated and then went on to say Christians think the way their churches tell them to
He said I got him all wrong when I said he wanted to limit the church's influence on society and politics and claimed he instead was trying to reduce them to all volunteers which he said later he already believes they are and then admitted of course his goal is to limit its influence on society and politics
He denies he was implying Christians lack empathy for those they hurt and then went on to show thats exactly what he meant
The list goes on and on
IANS deals in dishonesty
I disagree. I have found IANS to ever be honest. And meticulous. That's his defining characteristic, the main reason few people can argue with him. It's why he can pull out your posts to show you what you said, his reply, and then point out the mistakes in your reasoning.

You and I aren't so meticulous, so as we write, we refine our ideas and explanations - kind of working them out for ourselves while explaining them to others. Writing like this is generative; it creates new ideas. Hence, your understanding of "evidence" and "proof" has changed through this discussion. B/c IANS began with a clear idea of how both words are defined, and linked to your earlier posts, he was able to show how you altered your interpretation of his writing and understanding of those words as you've gone along.

If what I wrote above is correct - that you refined your ideas rather than dissembled - then IANS' successful demonstration of your changing interpretation of his initial claims more accurately represents development of your thought than dishonesty on your part. If true, then IANS is mistaken in calling you dishonest, despite that altering one's definitions in the midst of an argument resembles dissembling.(I left those last two words that way 'cause they make a mess of the tongue!)

Hmmm. I'd have to agree that Christians have little to no empathy for those they hurt. I don't think lacking empathy is limited to Christians though, but all peoples dealing with other peoples.

The biggest problem in Christianity (or most religions) is the "I'm absolutely right and you're utterly wrong and therefore immature" stance. Christians believe, violently, that it is their duty to destroy other people's cultures and religions and make everyone Christian.

Tell me where the empathy lies in forcing people to your religion?

Now don't get me wrong - all peoples have done this in their history, so I'm not saying "only Christians are X."

History in brief: the European expansion and the world's greatest ethnocides and genocides in large part b/c of Christianity's need to make everyone good Christians.

Let's acknowledge a lot of greed on the part of rulers, too, and move on to contemporary times. In Japan, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to make inroads here. They don't think our culture is good enough and that we should become Christian. That's pretty umempathetic.

Or take any of the Christians on here who cannot admit that other believers in other religions subjectively experience their deities as real as equal to any Christian "knows" God is in their life.

Sorry, but religion does not spawn empathy for other peoples. It does for other believers of the same religion, but not for outsiders - b/c you believers "know" everyone else is wrong. You have the blinders on to other people. That's not empathy; it's ignorance.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#489867 Feb 17, 2013
Le_le wrote:
<quoted text>
I see I have to tread lightly here w you.
LL could stand for many things--how about Lyndsey Lohan??
-Or LifeLover??
I said that you wanted to be
their Pastor, "so to speak"...I said- "so to speak"..
Did you consider yourself an elder (at least) when penning the slate?
LIAR LIAR

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#489868 Feb 17, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PW..
Thank you for this.. The LOVE of Jesus towards people is so much stronger than people realize.
Amen GW, it only takes a little more Love in our Lives to practice it, rather than look for the mote in our brothers/sisters eye, Ja?

I have always loved singing for others rather than talking - as am inclined to sometimes use the wrong word unintentionally - or been misunderstood. Plus if 'speaking' can stutter a lot! I have to be aware of His Love over even my own 'feelings' towards the human race.

So... sometime the Bible stories say enough to how I feel about whatever is taking place! This book has always been a PW's Comfort due to the things we have to deal with, so it becomes a very personal understanding of as an individual.

God Bless you Grace.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489869 Feb 17, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>hmm--
for a freethinker, you thoughts on deity or spiritual experience is curios.
Deities are not [for the most part] objectivey real, because a deity is a spirit.
when you think about a spirit, even if you no believe in them things. the purest form of a spirit no look like human. a spirit no have human components like arms and nose and legs and feet all that.
No get me wrong now, spirits can take on [form] of humans. the most famous spirit that take on human form is Jesus Christ. But angels are also spirits. Satan, Jesus enemy, is a spirit. Demons, are spirits.
But in essence and form, a spirit is a Force. A spirit is like the wind, a spirit is like a attitude or a mentality. Almighty God YHWH is a Spirit.
a spirit can come in the shape of rage. two people have an argument and the argument rage to the point of one person killing another person. and then the person that kill say they never mean to do it and is like they lose control or it seem surreal to them or they no remember.
if you remember in the bible when Jesus rebuke the spirit, it go out the man and into a herd of swine and the swine run over the cliff.
That why bible say [test the spirits]. because a spiritual experience is subjective. So as I say many times on here, I believe the hindu or the muslim or people from other religions that say they experience god. What they mean, is that they experience a spirit.
There are an inumerable amount of spirits. a lot more than humans.
So the spirit of YHWH through Jesus Christ, there are spiritual experiences two jesus followers will have, like maybe both declare that only through Jesus one can get to father YHWH. there has to be spiritual agreement for two jesus followers to agree that is true.
But another spirit can influence two muslims to declare Allah not have no son. and another spirit can influence a sunni and a shite muslim that they enemies.
Spirits are to be tested.
I no want to go no further, because you is a freethinker and all this might seem baloney to you.
But to answer you main questions, the spiritual experience I have as a Jesus Follower, and the experience say a buddhist or a hindu or muslim would have, would not be the same. because the spiritual source is different.
Wow. Ok. Yeah.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#489870 Feb 17, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Not that you are asking sincere questions here but I'll use it as a springboard so others can know what I believe regarding this.
God... I believe their still children up to the age of 20.
Do they get the pass because they don't know any better? Do people stop not knowing any better exactly when they turn 20?

Why do children get the pass? Whatever that reason is, why wouldn't that reason apply to a person of any age?
Qu_innocence wrote:
Under 20... Yes.
That's just weird.
Qu_innocence wrote:
I believe some people who have been sexually-molested by a adult family member/or some family member or raped by some other have become homosexuals. I hear that a lot via testimonials and people that I've talked to. Some become gay due to peer-pressure (a fad), some due to curiosity and will explore ("questioning"). <---That's due to worldly influence... some become gay due to lack of parental leadership in the home. Others have natural sexual arousal feeling towards men. Aha! See Quin! I told ja.. I tol jah!!! Well, it is an expression of the sin nature. Two identical twins may look alike but have different temperaments... one may have an anger issue... the other may be more easy-going but have a different kind of sin expression. Unfortunately, I believe some are born with being attracted to guys and it has nothing to do with a gay gene... it is simply the sin nature manifesting itself in one way or another...
Are people straight because they were raped or molested by someone of the same gender? Are people straight due to peer pressure? Are people straight due to a lack of parental leadership in the home? If they can turn out gay for these reasons, couldn't they also turn out straight for the same reasons?

What is immoral about homosexuality? Can you come up with some kind of justification for that belief?

When was the last time you suffered a witch to live? You know you're supposed to kill witches, right?

Christians stopped believing that it was acceptable to kill people as witches (in America, but not in Africa), and they're going to stop believing that homosexuality is immoral. It's one of the two or three major shifts that is currently occurring in Christianity.

Examples of these drastic shifts ARE the history of Christianity. It's been changing since day one.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489871 Feb 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
IANS you told Juicy she got you all wrong just like i always do when she said you believe all or most Christians are indoctrinated. Yet here you are posting this:
IANS said
"It seems that way to you because you have been trained to think that way, a characteristically Christian way of thinking. You see the world principally as a decadent and dangerous place that is getting worse, even as it gets better. And you project your own Christian psychology of sitting by helplessly waiting to be rescued. It's so negative, passive and disabling.
I blame your church for teaching you to think this way."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
That's the definition of indoctrination
Why did you lie IANS and deny you feel most Christians are indoctrinated?
The correct word is "encultured" not "indoctrinated."

Christians are encultured to the precepts of their religion; it pervades their thoughts - all of them. Christians truly live in a Christian reality. Events that happen in your life are connected to God's plan; you see God's Creation all around you.

That's enculturation and not indoctrination.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#489872 Feb 17, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
By the way, I understand why Liar Liar and Grace would say such, but to the genuine Christians I appeal to you... whether here or on Facebook... If you posted and passed on that I set myself up as a Pastor then please take a look at that list again and tell me where you see me at.
If you see me where I'm at and passed on that I was the Pastor or something then please get with our heavenly Father on that for repentance. Thanks.
SO, You admit there is a List. thats a start. Did you get with the Heavenly Father for repentance when you lied about who I was and NEVER apologized like you promised you would?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489873 Feb 17, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your Bible, God sent the Evil among us.
That wasn't super all loving.
Just like throwing a rattlesnake in a crib.
Certainly not good parenting.
Bible God is Evil.
Ok. I accept this as truth.
That you can't accept the truth is your problem, not mine.
No, but I just accepted it as truth!
Most of you are so afraid of your deity you can't even admit the truth about it.
Well, shouldn't we be afraid of an all powerful, all knowing, rattlesnake-tossing-into-cribs deity?!? If that's not a thing to be afraid of, I don't know what is!
Very sad.
Totally.

:)

“Painters Find Beauty in Life ”

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#489874 Feb 17, 2013
Juicylu wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Skom, I do love you very much but I am compelled to answer this question.
My pagan/Catholic mother blanked my real Brasilian father out of my life with lies, so that I could be raised with my Catholic step father, who physically, mentally, sexually, emotionally and (my mother) spiritually abused me from the ages of 4-12, she accused me of being possessed by demons and yet never took me to their Priest for an exorcism. Have you been aware of world events for the past 2000 years or so?
Things are not always as they seem my friend <3
Luke 11:19-20
"And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
Jesus
Bonsoir Luciana,

Meu amor, não tínhamos idéia o que você passou por nós...* derrama lágrimas * estamos com o coração partidos, sobre o que você e outros passaram nas mãos daqueles que se chamam cristãos. Uma pessoa real pode ser vista através de suas palavras e ações, se eles têm compaixão ele irá amnifest-se, se não não, mas devemos amar e cuidar de todos igualmente não porque nos é dito para mas porque nós deve que queremos para nós mesmos. Sora e eu te amo Luciana e seu testemunho é a chave para o fato de que você deve influenciar o mundo em que vivemos, você deve ver!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489875 Feb 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody has claimed we don't argue but the difference is the people in this room didn't come here with the intention of arguing nor is anyone IMO normally seeking out a fight. When differences in opinion over doctrine or interpretation arise it can create tension and lead to disagreements and fights.
Do you deny you guys came here in a group effort to stir things up?
But you have a point, it does start with us. We can simply choose to ignore anything that looks like it is designed solely to provoke an argument. I personally don't care who believes what as far as who is welcome if they are here to be civil. But to me there is a difference between civil and passive-aggressive. I see nothing civil about the goal being to create problems no matter how subtly someone goes about it. Sincere inquiries and debates are a different matter
Sorry.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489876 Feb 17, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe I was the first visitor, and mentioned the thread over at the PTAG and Atheism forums. Others then came over, some shortly after I did, others later.
I do deny that there was any group effort to stir things up, or for any other purpose.
There was no "conspiracy."
As for the "civility" factor, I do see some bad stuff going on here between certain Christians. Hardly sincere inquiries and debates; more like nasty jabs and personal insults. I mentioned this only because we "outsiders" have been blamed.
You would be mistaken. I came here about a year ago, realized that these people were enjoying their happy times and apologized and left. I tried to drag IANS over at that time, but he didn't come for reasons of his own.

So, like the Norse, I made the first foray and then vanished! Although there may have been others before me...and this in no way decreases your accomplishments, sir!

:)

(I only wrote this for fun)

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#489877 Feb 17, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
LeLe,
How nice to see you. I posted to you awhile back and it must have got buried, this thread moves so fast.
I was wondering if you remembered where that thread about the supernatural events is, I've tried to find it but to no avail.
I miss Ham's posts, also Micah's. They both wrote so well, Ham's faith and Micah's talks of going fishing with God. Good old days, huh?
JW {S}
Hey!
So nice to see you, JW!
Just read you have limited internet..

IIt's all good, my friend.. we are very nastalgic for yesterday in
here,, but, there were also still many bumps and unexpected turns-- right? Much understanding and friendship too ..xoxoox.

Ham and micha, literally- ring in my brain- many many days..
-and they are always in my heart.

Love you- sincerely..
Thanks for the shout out..

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#489878 Feb 17, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pretty sure I arose from an insertion event.
Pretty sure.
hahaha!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#489879 Feb 17, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Do they get the pass because they don't know any better? Do people stop not knowing any better exactly when they turn 20?
Why do children get the pass? Whatever that reason is, why wouldn't that reason apply to a person of any age?
<quoted text>
That's just weird.
<quoted text>
Are people straight because they were raped or molested by someone of the same gender? Are people straight due to peer pressure? Are people straight due to a lack of parental leadership in the home? If they can turn out gay for these reasons, couldn't they also turn out straight for the same reasons?
What is immoral about homosexuality? Can you come up with some kind of justification for that belief?
When was the last time you suffered a witch to live? You know you're supposed to kill witches, right?
Christians stopped believing that it was acceptable to kill people as witches (in America, but not in Africa), and they're going to stop believing that homosexuality is immoral. It's one of the two or three major shifts that is currently occurring in Christianity.
Examples of these drastic shifts ARE the history of Christianity. It's been changing since day one.
Hi Tide,
A Christian who has the Love of Jesus Christ in their heart knows that we are not to condemn unbelievers. He changed our hearts and we know that it is the goodness of God that leads people to repentance..Not Religious people who try to "scare" them with something they dont even believe in. Its exactly that kind of condemnation that keeps people away from God. That kind of religion has become a stumbling block for so many who are really searching for a loving God that is not being represented correctly by His own people.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#489880 Feb 17, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Do they get the pass because they don't know any better?
No in a yes kind of way.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Do people stop not knowing any better exactly when they turn 20?
Yes in a no kind of way.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do children get the pass?
For such is the Kingdom of God.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever that reason is, why wouldn't that reason apply to a person of any age?
Because we can't stay a kid forever in this life... there comes a time when one has to be accountable for our own actions and choices
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just weird.
That's what some 18 year olds say... they can join the military to die for the country but supposedly can't drink until they're 21. Why 18? Why 21?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#489881 Feb 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. That's quite a lot.
That is what we have available, hundreds more did not survive the Imperial Roman Church's burning policies.

“Romans 8:1.”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#489882 Feb 17, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
By the way, I understand why Liar Liar and Grace would say such, but to the genuine Christians I appeal to you... whether here or on Facebook... If you posted and passed on that I set myself up as a Pastor then please take a look at that list again and tell me where you see me at.
If you see me where I'm at and passed on that I was the Pastor or something then please get with our heavenly Father on that for repentance. Thanks.
Do you really want those on facebook to come in here and give there honest testimony about what you did quin? Because many that are a part of that friends group on facebook can back up what Le_le said because they were regular posters in here when you did it. And you know who they are because you labled many of them "minister of this or that" as you attempted to turn this thread into your own delusional self made ministry. Which by the way failed miserably.

Did you really think people had forgotten what you tried to do? Because there are many posters (including me and many that are friends on facebook that can expose you as well) that know that Le_le is telling the truth. Once again you've been caught in yet another lie.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#489883 Feb 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. I have found IANS to ever be honest. And meticulous. That's his defining characteristic, the main reason few people can argue with him. It's why he can pull out your posts to show you what you said, his reply, and then point out the mistakes in your reasoning.
You and I aren't so meticulous, so as we write, we refine our ideas and explanations - kind of working them out for ourselves while explaining them to others. Writing like this is generative; it creates new ideas. Hence, your understanding of "evidence" and "proof" has changed through this discussion. B/c IANS began with a clear idea of how both words are defined, and linked to your earlier posts, he was able to show how you altered your interpretation of his writing and understanding of those words as you've gone along.
If what I wrote above is correct - that you refined your ideas rather than dissembled - then IANS' successful demonstration of your changing interpretation of his initial claims more accurately represents development of your thought than dishonesty on your part. If true, then IANS is mistaken in calling you dishonest, despite that altering one's definitions in the midst of an argument resembles dissembling.(I left those last two words that way 'cause they make a mess of the tongue!)
Hmmm. I'd have to agree that Christians have little to no empathy for those they hurt. I don't think lacking empathy is limited to Christians though, but all peoples dealing with other peoples.
The biggest problem in Christianity (or most religions) is the "I'm absolutely right and you're utterly wrong and therefore immature" stance. Christians believe, violently, that it is their duty to destroy other people's cultures and religions and make everyone Christian.
Tell me where the empathy lies in forcing people to your religion?
Now don't get me wrong - all peoples have done this in their history, so I'm not saying "only Christians are X."
History in brief: the European expansion and the world's greatest ethnocides and genocides in large part b/c of Christianity's need to make everyone good Christians.
Let's acknowledge a lot of greed on the part of rulers, too, and move on to contemporary times. In Japan, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to make inroads here. They don't think our culture is good enough and that we should become Christian. That's pretty umempathetic.
Or take any of the Christians on here who cannot admit that other believers in other religions subjectively experience their deities as real as equal to any Christian "knows" God is in their life.
Sorry, but religion does not spawn empathy for other peoples. It does for other believers of the same religion, but not for outsiders - b/c you believers "know" everyone else is wrong. You have the blinders on to other people. That's not empathy; it's ignorance.
Hi Hiding..
Very nice and very intelligent post. You are absolutly correct and I am as guilty of that as anybody. I do try to show compassion towards others though. Some are just harder than others, I guess. I always appreciate when someone innocently opens my eyes about something. Thanks..You seem to have a great heart and mind. Have a goodnight.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#489884 Feb 17, 2013
Le_le wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PW,
I am sorry, I did not catch this post before signing off on Friday night..
-another beautiful post!
I have always admired who you are through your posts.
How could one not - is there anything better in our world than
- a Peace Warrior?
I too have known the presence of Christ since I was a very little
child..I was raised Catholic and just knew there was so very much more to Christ's Love than what was being taught
in that church.
- don't get me wrong- Christ's Love knows no bounds- and can
indeed be found in members of the Catholic church.
Deb is also one, who I can identify with- regarding "knowing"
Christ as a small child.
I like what you say about the blade of grass..
Too many times, those of us who can not "see" something in another-
believe that person to not have "Life"..Yet, Christ sees all..
And that's good enough for me..
Wishing you much Love and happiness-- today and always..
Thanks for taking the time..
Hey Le Le,
Here's little Paddy - the Irish singer of the Kelly Family - and such a heart felt rendition of Amazing Grace.



My favorite words in this song are...
"When we've been there 10,000 years
bright shining as the sun;
we'll know less days to sing God's praise
than when we first begun."

Can't wait for Peace on Earth!

Little Paddy grew up, and by +- 19, he committed suicide. I don't know why... but there is so much individual tragedy... everywhere!

When I see a pack of dogs fighting - even if I don't know why either - I will go for the one with the most dogs at it's throat. No questions asked if it's a rescue!
mmmmmmmmm

I don't attend any church building, but do hold fast to 'the bride of Christ'... which like ALL today, has scored bad names as cult reference. I just think of the words of Jesus tho...
"My sheep know my voice..." and feel very strongly even if the world should be against all or anything I might believe.

Don't think of a PW as a higher calling... it is a HEAVY job, which calls for more grace than we sometimes personally have, more truth than we might like to face, and more forgiveness than is sometimes within us... But when dedication is what it is... only God is the judge of a soul.

Peace be with you all ways in His Love

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#489885 Feb 17, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Are people straight because they were raped or molested by someone of the same gender?
People are straight because it is the natural order of God. People being raped is abnormal whether they are being raped by a pedophile, a perverse homo or perverse hetero-sexual person.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Are people straight due to peer pressure?
People are straight because it is natural to be straight. It's unatural not to be straight.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Are people straight due to a lack of parental leadership in the home?
That is mostly the case also being a natural function of mankind.

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