Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484369 Feb 5, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I was looking for a test that a person might conduct to decide if the group that sees something really sees it, or is seeing things. Let me give you a concrete "what if" :

You and the rest of your ten man detail are on maneuvers in an Afghani desert when an explosion kills three of your squad, and leaves you blind and limping. Two three-man details go in opposite directions in search of water.

They each return to you claiming that they have seen water in the distance, are planning to go to the water, and will help you get there with them inasmuch as you are not expected to survive long enough for them to return with water for you.

Both groups swear that they have seen water, but it's very hot out, they're dehydrated, and you realize that one or both groups might be seeing things - a mirage. Which will you follow, and how can you decide? In other words, is there a way to decide when a group of people claim to see something whether they actually do?
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
That's a tough one.

I think I would ask(or order) that they dig a shallow pit, drag one of the bodies up next to it and cover it with sand...dig up a couple belts, a knife, and something plastic if possible, and leave me one clip & pistol...take the shortest route available to support, and then send back evac if it is possible. "don't worry - I'll be just fine boys" - now move it!"
The problem was designed to force you to choose which group to follow. Let's say for simplicity's sake that one group has actually found water, and the other saw a mirage. How can you tell which is which?

Here's my solution:

You interview the soldiers. With one group, all three report, for example, an oasis about 500 ft in diameter about three miles away, with two palms on the right side, three on the left, a blue-green color to the water, and a sand dune with the profile resembling George Washington behind it.

The members of the other detail each gives you a different report, with wildly varying descriptions. And when they are questioned a second time, they not only continue to contradict one another, but they begin to contradicting themselves.

So now who saw water and who saw a mirage?

Incidentally, this is the same technique the police use when interviewing suspects. They interview them separately and compare stories to judge if their stories are based on experience or fantasy.

Ask Christians about the god they see some time, and you can solve this mystery for yourself as well.

==========

I used to ask myself, "How can I tell if my god blindness is like color blindness – blindness to something that is really there - or if the claims of seeing a god were like the paranoid's claims seeing danger that isn’t there?" The answer is the same:

The color blind know that normally sighted people are actually seeing something that they are not, because of their ability to identify colors consistently, and to agree among themselves about what they see, such as socks not matching. Not surprisingly, the two groups don't argue or fight about reality.

The paranoids, however, are different. They seldom agree, even with themselves, coming up with ad hoc argument after argument for why the danger is real, each contradicting the last one, with no two paranoids having the same version of their delusion, and most frustrated with and angry at those who "pretend not to see the obvious."

Unlike the color sighted, the paranoid have to plead emotionally and passionately to be believed. Which group do the religious most resemble? Many angrily chide the rest of us for disagreeing, often using the same emotionally charged pleading as the paranoids.

Furthermore, each describes a different god, contradicting not just one another, but themselves from telling to retelling. That's how I know that the god visions are in their heads.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484370 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent post!!!!!!!
Thanks.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#484371 Feb 5, 2013
FOOD FOR THOUGHT

By total coincidence I refresh my torrent site where I download tv shows and literally the first show on the list was

The Bachelor S17E05

Which stands for The Bachelor, season 17, episode 5

If sanctity of marriage in this country really is the issue when it comes to homosexuality, why is this show on its 17th season? Where are all the protests?

IMO this has nothing to do with being lax on sin overall or anybody really caring about the sanctity of marriage and everything to do with how we look the other way when the sin doesn't personally offend us or it is a sin we ourselves may commit. We are still very tough on sins other people commit

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I say this to my brothers and sisters and that is if we all cleaned up own own backyards we would be too busy to see the mote

People have a right to feel how they do and like i have said if you are against hatred and for love then you don't have to defend what you see as a sin. But we do have to explain how we have moved on to what sins other people are committing while we still sin ourselves

That's just basic Jesus Christ 101 if you will

Let us all start here

Titus 2:7
in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ

1Timothy 4:12
Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.

Philippians 4:9
What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

..myself included

(T) Peace
Henry

Germany

#484372 Feb 5, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
REVELATION Study
I. Rev 1:11 Part 11 Cont3 (bridged with Rev 2:10)
Rev 1______/TTTTTTTTTTTTT\______Re v 2
II. Jesus: "Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, THE DEVIL will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life." Rev 2:10
**********
1. The Devil - Now Christians shouldn't necessarily be big fans of horror flicks... I hardly ever watch them. But I did see a movie with one of my favorite actors, Denzel Washington, in it. It was a movie called "Fallen". And basically, the plot was that a demon was jumping from people to people and causing them to do all sorts of stuff... and Denzel was attempting to destroy it and I won't give away the ending in case "some of ya'lls" happen to look at it in the future. Perhaps some may be thinking, "Uh, Quin... lol... jumping from place to place?!" Actually there is a situation in the bible where something like that happened... actually, it happened a few times. Once when satan entered Judas at the last supper... once when Jesus allowed legion to go from the demon-possessed man into the pigs.. and in Acts 19:13-16 we see how a man possessed by an evil spirit beat up on some folk. Now here is what Jesus says happens when an evil spirit is cast out of a man:
* Jesus: "When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says,‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits MORE WICKED THAN ITSELF, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.” Luke 11:24-25
1. Now an evil spirit is nothing more but a fallen angel (demon) who used to be one of God's holy angels but got kicked out due to sin with "no hope" of recovery. So they might as well partay, huh? Actually, they try and do everything they can to delay God's will being done on the earth... they come not but to kill, steal and to destroy God's very best for His people and humanity. One of their favorite weapons is ignorance.
a. Apostle Paul: "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2
2. So... referencing Luke 11:24-25... how does one prevent a evil spirit or evil spirits from going back into them? First, if you are genuinely repentant and sorry for your sins.... then believe on Jesus and surrender it to Him. Believe in faith. Ask Him to forgive you and save you from your sins. It's "Been" done some time ago already? Praise The Lord. When you believed you became born again.... Now ask God for the gift of the Holy Spirit and ask in sincerity and in faith. There will be naysayers on this and various denominational doctrines... but put your trust in His Word instead. We saw what Paul asked earlier.... here is what Jesus also said:
* Jesus: "...how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" Luke 11:13
Continued...>>> (fallen)
The bible is a big garbage no more!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#484373 Feb 5, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

Here's my solution:
You interview the soldiers. With one group, all three report, for example, an oasis about 500 ft in diameter about three miles away, with two palms on the right side, three on the left, a blue-green color to the water, and a sand dune with the profile resembling George Washington behind it.
The members of the other detail each gives you a different report, with wildly varying descriptions. And when they are questioned a second time, they not only continue to contradict one another, but they begin to contradicting themselves.
So now who saw water and who saw a mirage?
Incidentally, this is the same technique the police use when interviewing suspects. They interview them separately and compare stories to judge if their stories are based on experience or fantasy.
Ask Christians about the god they see some time, and you can solve this mystery for yourself as well.
==========
I used to ask myself, "How can I tell if my god blindness is like color blindness – blindness to something that is really there - or if the claims of seeing a god were like the paranoid's claims seeing danger that isn’t there?" The answer is the same:
The color blind know that normally sighted people are actually seeing something that they are not, because of their ability to identify colors consistently, and to agree among themselves about what they see, such as socks not matching. Not surprisingly, the two groups don't argue or fight about reality.
The paranoids, however, are different. They seldom agree, even with themselves, coming up with ad hoc argument after argument for why the danger is real, each contradicting the last one, with no two paranoids having the same version of their delusion, and most frustrated with and angry at those who "pretend not to see the obvious."
Unlike the color sighted, the paranoid have to plead emotionally and passionately to be believed. Which group do the religious most resemble? Many angrily chide the rest of us for disagreeing, often using the same emotionally charged pleading as the paranoids.
Furthermore, each describes a different god, contradicting not just one another, but themselves from telling to retelling. That's how I know that the god visions are in their heads.
I generally don't respond to your posts that aren't to me but am going to make a second exception because i am not replying just to trade insults although I do find this post to bigoted as you label people of faith as delusional. But I am going to focus on the last part where you say:

"Furthermore, each describes a different god, contradicting not just one another, but themselves from telling to retelling. That's how I know that the god visions are in their heads"

This is what one would call 'junk science' as your premise is faulty and based on facts not in evidence. Where have you proven for God to be real He would have to appear to look the same to every person? In Acts people all heard in their native tongues. Why would it be so unusual to think people may see God as they have come to think of him? I doubt the human mind could even be capable of staring into the face of God this side of life.

What I found most intriguing about this post though is you wanted to know if your inability to see God was due to some problem with you. So to get an answer to that you looked at other people! Does that make any sense to you? Would you do that in any other area of introspection?

What does make sense to me is you really wanted to find a reason to tell yourself that the problem was not with you which made it very easy for you to convince yourself it wasn't as you rarely think the problem is with you. And true to form you decided the problem wasn't you by putting the blame on others

Look inward

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484374 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
In 1st century Judaism, claiming to be the Messiah was not a sin, however claiming to be a prophet was. They believed (and most still do) that "age of prophecy" was over.

However they would have to convince Pilate that Jesus was a threat and thus get him to admit that he claimed to be the Messiah and then explain to Pilate that the Messiah was "The King of the Jews" they would surely get Pilate to find him guilty of treason.

It is pretty simple to figure out and makes far more sense than the fantasy trial on 'John'.
Thanks, again.
Doctor REALITY

Searcy, AR

#484375 Feb 5, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Someone suggested the easiest way to diffuse the situation about people pressing for where I stand is to just tell them. They only skimmed the exchanges so I have no issue with that but as I said I felt no desire to because of why I was being asked. Anyway I responded in the t-mail and ended up giving my whole position so I might as well just post it:
MY POSITION
I do support gay marriage because there are civil rights attached to marriage. My feeling is it long stopped being a sacrament or something the church or Christianity can lay claim to the minute they allowed secular and civil rights to be attached such as citizenship, medical decisions, spousal privilege, and so on. The way I see it is marriage should only be called marriage in the church and all marriages should be civil unions. In other words anyone who gets committed for life should have to have a civil union. Then on top of that if someone wants to be 'married' as a sacrament they do it in the church. You can't restrict civil rights based on sexual orientation.
As far as homosexuality itself personally its last on the list as it doesn't affect me or anyone else. I don't think sins ought to be singled out and especially sins that 90% of the population will never commit as it is hypocritical. Either people treat all sins of the flesh as equal which they are or they can't single out the ones they don't do and say they are worse. And as a society the sins we should be concerned about are the sins that hurt others.
Now with that said if someone is against homosexuality and can honestly say that someone gay still falls under one of the three categories of brother, neighbor, or enemy and still is deserving of love then they have a biblical and personal right not to agree with the actions. However I personally feel it is how someone is born. With that said a lot of pedophiles are born that way too but the difference is there is a victim in that scenario. Is gay sex any more immoral that straight couples shoving toys up each other's (I am going to say backside here)? And even having to think about trying to compare stuff like that is why quite frankly I don't think what consenting adult's do in their bedroom is anybody's business.
Part 1 of 2
I'm becoming more and more convinced that you have never actually been saved.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#484376 Feb 5, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I generally don't respond to your posts that aren't to me but am going to make a second exception because i am not replying just to trade insults although I do find this post to bigoted as you label people of faith as delusional. But I am going to focus on the last part where you say:
"Furthermore, each describes a different god, contradicting not just one another, but themselves from telling to retelling. That's how I know that the god visions are in their heads"
This is what one would call 'junk science' as your premise is faulty and based on facts not in evidence. Where have you proven for God to be real He would have to appear to look the same to every person? In Acts people all heard in their native tongues. Why would it be so unusual to think people may see God as they have come to think of him? I doubt the human mind could even be capable of staring into the face of God this side of life.
What I found most intriguing about this post though is you wanted to know if your inability to see God was due to some problem with you. So to get an answer to that you looked at other people! Does that make any sense to you? Would you do that in any other area of introspection?
What does make sense to me is you really wanted to find a reason to tell yourself that the problem was not with you which made it very easy for you to convince yourself it wasn't as you rarely think the problem is with you. And true to form you decided the problem wasn't you by putting the blame on others
Look inward
Edit

Had you involved yourself in the study it would make more sense

Then you would at least be comparing and then could see if perhaps some people that could see God were doing something different than you who can not see God

But that isn't what you really wanted to know so you left yourself out of it

You just wanted to convince yourself people who believe in God are crazy so naturally you couldn't involve yourself in such a study as you hadn't yet ruled out believing in God and weren't going to include yourself in a test whose outcome you had already decided. And you knew how it would play out because you based it on totally subjective beliefs not based on any facts so then you could claim if everybody didn't see the same thing God must not be real

If you wanted the truth you would have involved yourself

You simply wanted a justification for giving up your faith

Anyway, that's that for me. But it is a shame to see all this intellect IMO wasted on trying to stereotype all people of faith as negatively as possible. Why not simply allow for the fact that God may or may not exist since it can't be proven and focus your energy on what can be done to make religion and society interact better? You are never getting rid of religion. You are never eliminating it from people's lives so therefore your goal of eliminating its impact on politics or society is a pipe dream

Set aside what can be easily viewed as prejudice and start looking for the best ways for people to work together. Personally I think it would help you immensely to realize you are no smarter or more informed than many people of faith. IMO your feeling of intellectually superiority over those of faith drives you to oppose faith as you see it as some sort of limitation. I think if you realized you aren't any better than those of faith you could move on to more productive goals

I would normally say I am here to help you realize the first part which is you are no better but I think we both can agree for the most part this has become tedious and we would be better spent focusing on things other than each other

But IMO anyway you should seriously reassess your goals

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484377 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
I was a Lama a few lives ago. I wasn't a good one, so here I am...again. LOL Thanks for the quote.
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/msbrackenri... [image]

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#484378 Feb 5, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>I'm becoming more and more convinced that you have never actually been saved.
I wish words could properly describe how little I care

In lieu of that I will settle for what I just posted

:)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484379 Feb 5, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:
:-/
Oh dear...that was not intentional!
My bad...
I think that I found a blog that you and Senecus do together. Is that right?

I enjoyed "Stuck In The Middle" :

"For the Christian ... we stuck-in-the-middle people are the worst of the worst ... so I have been told ... luke warm they call us! For the non-Christian ... we stuck-in-the middle people are the worst of the worst ... so I have been told ... just can’t give up on the delusion!"

I'll assume that those are your words.

FWIW, I don't consider it a delusion the way you handle it. I also have intuitions that might be similar to some of your own. I just don't know what to make of them. They don't guide at all.

But they are pleasant to experience, and I foster them. I try to engage that faculty - the spiritual faculty - that shines in colors of awe, gratitude, mystery and connection. Why not? It's exhilarating.

For me, the danger is in letting the priests have access to your mind through that. They will exploit you, and cheapen the experience with ghost stores. So, I avoid any kind of narrative to go with that experience. For all I know, I'm only experiencing myself. But who cares?

Theists like you and G_O_D are much more interesting than I am accustomed to on these threads. We might not be too different. We might actually be more like one another than either of us are like the kind of theists that we see so much of in these threads.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484380 Feb 5, 2013
Juicylu wrote:
It's not that simple and it's not for us to judge. He was judged by the Law of man and he will be judged by God as well. Asking me what God's judgement will or might be is an exercise in futility, how could I possibly know? I like to think Jeffrey Dahmer would be punished by God for his crimes, regardless of what he says or feels but at the end of the day, we don't know.
That's a good answer.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484381 Feb 5, 2013
Juicylu wrote:
I see someone who is passionate and defensive of his beliefs and people seem to like prodding him into his reactions.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
So Skombolis' reactions are other people's faults? He has no choice in the matter? Here's that accountability stuff again. My version is different than what I see here. Skombolis is accountable for his choices, as when he chose to sling sewage at me because he didn't like some of my opinions. In my opinion, you're excusing his choice to indulge himself, and I'm holding him accountable.
Juicylu wrote:
Now you're posting words I did not write. To incite an argument perhaps or a debate? Because we see things differently? Yes he chooses to argue with you. I choose not to but it doesn't seem to stop you trying anyway does it? I wrote what I see, it was very simple and very short, if you don't like what I see, that's your problem and does not give you license to 'put words in my mouth', so to speak. All I was trying to point out is that Skom is not the only combative one in these 'debates'.
Sorry, Juicy. I am not trying to pick a fight with you. If things like the above provoke you to anger, I'll try to confine my comments to you to things like butterflies and zebras, and moonbeams and fairy tales. Better?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484382 Feb 5, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
Ha ha. Yes. Except nano is a "she" to most people.
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#484383 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Not foing to get into the whole 'John' thing over that. I am too tired. <smile>
all it will be is a bunch of words that you made up with no meaning.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#484384 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFLMAO
You are such a funny guy. Stupid, but funny.
you looking in the mirror when you write this?

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#484385 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no such thing as Christ. When you find one drag him out here and show us the thing. Until then its just textbook fiction.
Drop the double edged sword.
anything you write is fiction. dreams of delusions in you head you writing on the billboard.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#484386 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
It's called History, Archeology and Science. Something you should have at least heard about before beconing cloistered.
its called delusions and myths you dreaming about and you writing. you need some medication for that.

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#484387 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what many people think about the Abram of Uruk story. I see you do too.
no. I think you and anything you write is a myth. I not talking about Abram. Abram is well documented in historical records. nothing you write is history, is just bizarre fascinations about paul being gay.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#484388 Feb 5, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
I am convinced that if Constantine had put Aesops Fables in the Bible, Christians would be claiming the the Tortoise is Jesus and the Rabbit is Satan and that animals can talk.
From Bill Maher's Religulous:

"Do you think if, when you were a kid, they transposed the bible stories with the fairy tales, you would know the difference as an adult? If they told you that “Jack and the Beanstalk” was religion, and that the man who lived in a whale was in a fairy tale book, you think when you got to be an adult you’d be defending the one instead of the other."

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