“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#482009 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
.... It's the misanthropic garbage ..
That is the philosophical difference between Judaism and Christinity.

The prime assumption of Christianity is that humans are inherently bad and never can be good enough.

The prime assumption of Judaism is that humans are inherently good and need to work at staying good.

Two antithetical paradigms.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#482010 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, and a very good point.
I used to despise Paul relative to Jesus. Jesus had the gentler temperament. It was Paul who demeaned women, for example, not Jesus. Neither seemed to have much use for sex, but it was Paul that wanted the women to shut up and submit.
But later, I came to respect Paul as a rational ethicist. He simply contradicted Jesus and dismissed the Old Testament law, and replaced it with a much improved ethical system, however deficient by modern standards. He didn't have permission to do that. He simply did it.
I don't want to give him too much credit,since I'm not sure that Paul was guided by compassion as much as expediency. His motive may have been to appeal to gentiles rather than make life better for people, but he did use reason to make ethical judgments rather than conform to scripture.
What do you think?
My problem with Paul and the Gentile Church is that they didn;t have the courage to dissociate completely with Judaism. Had they pitched the Hebrew Scriptures and just created a pagan religion around Jesus I would accept their honesty. After all, IMHO the myth is just a vesel to communicate deeper truths. IN fact, the entire story from Gilgamesh to Revelation could be 100% fiction and it could still provide a "spiritual truth" and even further, could have provice a more coherent and understandable mythological framework.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#482011 Jan 30, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry BLL, I am NOT going to believe You over the Holy Spirit.....
One should always go with the voices in their head. LOL

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#482012 Jan 30, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
My problem with Paul and the Gentile Church is that they didn;t have the courage to dissociate completely with Judaism. Had they pitched the Hebrew Scriptures and just created a pagan religion around Jesus I would accept their honesty. After all, IMHO the myth is just a vesel to communicate deeper truths. IN fact, the entire story from Gilgamesh to Revelation could be 100% fiction and it could still provide a "spiritual truth" and even further, could have provice a more coherent and understandable mythological framework.
I personally dont see the connection people are making between jesus and Mosaic law. Yes Jesus was a Jew but not by todays standards and certaintly imo not those of Moses either. When did Jesus ever enforcce Mosaic Law? He changed hate your enemy to love your enemy. he broke bread with strangers. he stopped the stoning of prostitutes. Jesus ushured in the new way imo whereas all law fell under love God and your neighbor. Jmo (T) PEACE
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#482013 Jan 30, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>

He changed hate your enemy to love your enemy. he broke bread with strangers. he stopped the stoning of prostitutes. Jesus ushured in the new way imo whereas all law fell under love God and your neighbor. Jmo (T) PEACE
and He died for ALL, and for ALL our sins, and whosoever BELIEVETH
in Him, shall have everlasting life, no IFS about it.

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#482014 Jan 30, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>He will probably answer you because it is a verse he agrees with. Ask him why the Gentiles are told in Romans that they avoided severity and instead received goodness because they believed but were warned that even the natural branches (jews) can be cut off so all the more reason for them to keep their faith and to remain in God's goodness so they dont also get cut off?You like to mix it up right? or consider it a favor to me! i know i wont get an answer other than being told God has blinded me
Good early morning Skom, this reminds mo of the ol' hit and run double standard.

Peace.

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#482015 Jan 30, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Nah I am repentant when I sin while you revel in it. I like my chances. I wouldnt put money on you. But hey anything is possible, with Christ all things are.(Thats from the Bible btw)
Great response Skom and very true, not to mention that is keeping it REAL.

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#482016 Jan 30, 2013
Senecus wrote:
Allow me to offer an assist...
I think both 'sides' could do well in a little expository study from Galatians 2:15-12:
"We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."
Just a thought;)
Good early morning John, that scripture you posted was very much on time, how've you been?
mike

AOL

#482017 Jan 30, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
Jacob and Esau;Squabbling Brothers.
Jacob and his twin brother Esau did not get along well for much of their lives,because Jacob took Esau's birthright.Their decendants were the Israelites and the Edomites respectively groups that continued to feud throughout their histories.The Bible states that feud began even before the birth of Jacob and Esau:The children struggled together within her(their mother Rebekah's womb)(Genesis 25:22)
Hello lil whis

A "birthright" was actually a tradition, it was not something the un-intended could just take.

Bible stories were fabricated after the "fact".

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#482018 Jan 31, 2013
mike wrote:
<quoted text>Hello lil whis
A "birthright" was actually a tradition, it was not something the un-intended could just take.
Bible stories were fabricated after the "fact".
Good early morning Mike, long time no hear from, how've been?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482020 Jan 31, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I didnt see you deny every person exibits the characteristics she described.
I deny that all people - even most people - are properly characterized as she characterized them, especially when she announced that "I fully realize mankind is a total failure."
Skombolis wrote:
And you dont understand what bigotry is as it isnt bigotry to have an opinion based on actual actions displayed by all people. Bigotry is stereotyping one group negatively over another and normally a group someone is not part of. How can someone be bigoted against all humans that is human for forming an opinion on human characteristics.?
I think it is bigotry.

Whatever else it is, it is a deprecatory over-generalization that I find offensive and consider an unhealthy way to think.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482021 Jan 31, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, several Christians just gave me an education on the subject.
They don't seem to agree on OSAS or no OSAS. I see it as a very poor policy, given the Christian belief that humans are by nature bad and require the fear of eternal damnation to abstain from sin.
Perhaps the pedophile priests rely on the doctrine to maintain their behavior, and their superiors for their cover-ups.
This was my comment, which agrees with yours:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482022 Jan 31, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
You've misunderstood, and purposefully so.
Please don't put your failures on me. Here are your exact words:

"Blasphemy is failure to recognize and respect the authority of The Most High and those He has sent to complete task. "

This sentence has a compound direct object: A is B and C, where "B and C" is the object. It can be rewritten as: A is B and A is C

Blasphemy is failure to recognize and respect the authority of The Most High and blasphemy is failure to recognize and respect the authority of those He has sent to complete task.

Let's look at "A is C," or in this case, blasphemy is failure to recognize and respect the authority of those He has sent to complete task.

You wrote it, and I did not misunderstand it. Apparently, you did, assuming that you are denying meaning what you wrote.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482023 Jan 31, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
What does it profit you to behave so dence when I know you're not?
Dence? I'm dence? It's spelled "dense"
Counter_Strike wrote:
Your position wouldn't change even if an angel held up a neon sign and said "This Way to heaven".


That's not correct. Try me.

I am sensitive to evidence. Christianity has offered nothing remotely like an angel - just unsubstantiated claims and specious arguments. Bill Maher said it well:

"Iím open to anything for which there is evidence. Show me a god and I will believe in him. If Jesus Christ comes down from the sky during the halftime show of this Sundayís Super Bowl and turns all the nachos into loaves and fishes, Iíll think ...ďOh look at that, I was wrong. There he is. My bad. Praise the lord!"
Counter_Strike wrote:
The fact is, you've come on here to waste people's time
You don't get too many "facts" correct, do you? That comment isn't even remotely likely to be correct. Even Dr. Shrink, whose opinions are a waste of time, doesn't come here to waste other people's time, does he? He comes here to express his opinions.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482024 Jan 31, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
The Bible gives strict instructions that the duty of the believer is to fear God and obey the commandments.
Fear and submit, huh? Don't forget begging for forgiveness and mercy for being human. Because mankind is a total failure, right?

Thanks for the great advice, but no thanks. You can tremble and grovel for us both. I recommend dignity, courage and autonomy instead.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482025 Jan 31, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Edit Tide....this may sound like kind of a funny way to characterize Jesus but I think it is very fitting to say he was a no-nosense type of teacher. He expected people to follow his teachings to the letter and left no room for people to substitute their own ways.
And yet he chose to write in parables. How shrewd.
Skombolis wrote:
Jesus taught us to love. His message was that of love and leaving judgement to God. What else could He have taught?
Fear and submission.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#482026 Jan 31, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
Then turn right around and say they follow the teachings of Christ. Jesus did not teach people that they were capable of being perfect.
Our anointed Savior said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Peter wrote, "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." And finally, the author of Hebrews wrote, "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

You truly don't know anything about the son of "God." It's rare to witness such foolishness from someone that claims to be a believer.
Grace Walker wrote:
He even took one commandment and raised the standards even higher just to get them to see that they cannot be as obedient as they think they can. He wanted them to see that they needed a Saviour.
Are you out of your tree?!

He was teaching us how to defeat sin by revealing to us where sin originates! If we remove lust from our hearts and minds, we'll never commit adultery!! And how do we remove lust from our hearts and minds? With prayer, and replacing such an unrighteous thought with a righteous thought!

You have got to be kidding me right now!!! What a cop-out!!!
Grace Walker wrote:
If anyone thinks he can go and sin no more are unhuman. They are seeing the "results" of SIN..I.E..lying, cheating, stealing ect..ect..are a RESULT or ACTION of SIN..The Sin nature.
And THAT explains it!!

You asked me why I stopped going to "church"? What you said was one reason. Because you so-called "Christians" are destroying the world!!! You've succumbed to defeat before you even started the battle!!!

How do you know you can't be perfect if you've never tried? How will anyone ever reach perfection with an attitude like yours?

You should be ashamed of yourself! It's attitudes like yours that have so many so-called "believers" living such a lukewarm lifestyle. Many of you, as I've witnessed, only do "good" when it's done with your congregations; for others to see! And that's "good" enough for you.
Grace Walker wrote:
The Sin God will NOT forgive is UNBELIEF in Jesus Christ. Churches have tried to keep their congregations under bondage and fear way too long.
What bible are YOU reading?

The wages of sin is death. Sin is the transgression of the law.

You believe what you want. I'll believe the bible.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482027 Jan 31, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
when creatures started evolving, what evolved first, the legs for the creature to walk, teh eyes to see, the ears to hear or the mouth to eat?
You really shouldn't post on science.

Protostome worms had the first mouths [1]. Their primitive eye spots weren't really eyes, just light sensitive tissue in depressions. Eyes that were chambers with pinholes came in later invertebrates like snails (molluscs)[2]. Leg-like appendages appeared in some fish [3]. Hearing first appears in amphibians [4].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryological_or...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the...

[3] http://www.jesusbelievesinevolution.com/fish_...

[4] http://evolvingsenses.blogspot.mx/

You couldn't do this? Of course you could. You don't really care about the answers. You just hope that the question will suggest that man is stumped by such questions, and that therefore a god must have been involved, don't you?

But the opposite comes out. Your god belief keeps you in the state you're in. It's you that is unknowing, not mankind, and deliberately so. You consider the science invalid and not worth knowing if it challenges your faith. But that doesn't stop you from taking pot shots at science from your position of abject darkness.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#482028 Jan 31, 2013
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Grace Walker 5:48
Ye can never be perfect, so don't even bother.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#482029 Jan 31, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
I don't think Jesus was any more than the personification of a social movement. The myth was probably based on a preacher, or a few, but I have no reason to think that the words attributed to Jesus were actually spoken by him, or that the stories about him actually happened.

As far as the religion that resulted from all that, I disagree with most of it. The few little things I do agree with, are not original or unique to Christianity. I have no reason to value it, at all.
Good post. Nicely articulated.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 5 min Lumajuice 793,143
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 23 min Pegasus 267,248
Israel's end is near, Ahmadinejad says (Jun '07) 1 hr Rathore 38,042
Does science disprove biblical teachings??? 1 hr Ninja of Reason 5
Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 2 hr truth 567,239
Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 3 hr samanthar 97,403
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 3 hr lovewithin 39,640
Scientific proof for God's existence 4 hr Rick in Kansas 475
More from around the web