Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#477909 Jan 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Christian theology, that's going to be true for most of the human race; "Good were it for that man if he never been born."
What fraction of the human race do you estimate will be saved, that is, worships Jehovah-Jesus and asks for forgiveness for sins from him? I've generally estimated that value at between 5% and 20%, since less than a third of the world calls themselves Christians, and many if not most of those are not what most Christians call "true Christians". I will use the value of 10% in the following analysis, which means that if you accept Christian theology at face value, most of humanity would be better off having never been created or born. Let's look at just how rotten a universe this would be if the bible were authentic:
Imagine that before you were born, you were given a choice to be born into any one of several possible universes, each created and ruled by a different god with different qualities and different rules from the others.
[1] In one universe – this universe, the one we actually know - the god ruling there will remain hidden from view. You will be born with reason, free will and a rebellious sin nature. There will be many false religions for you to choose from to make you suspicious of all religions, and the world will be seeded with deceptions like stratified fossils to trip you up, and a bible that is both contradicted by those clues, and which contradicts itself. Only a fraction will correctly guesses that this god exists and worship it - perhaps 10%("many are called, but few are chosen" - Matthew 22:14) will do so. The other 90% or so will be forced to remain conscious in an eternal torture chamber to suffer for no better reason than that it pleases that god to preserve them awake rather than to let them sleep.
[2] In another, the rules are the same as in the first universe, except that the god there makes himself plainly visible, and everybody manages not just to choose religion, but to choose the right religion, and in so doing, please him and earn eternal bliss praising him.
[3] In another, the rules are the same as in the first universe, except that after death, the deity allows the failures, still over 90+%, to return to the oblivion from which they came before birth. There is no torture after death.
[4] In another, it’s just like [3] except that, based on a coin flip, half get bliss and half get oblivion.
[5] In another, they also flip a coin. Except that heads it’s eternal bliss, tails it’s eternal torture. You have no say.
[6] In another universe, one ruled by Satan, everybody goes to eternal torture. This is the worst universe imaginable. If you are born into this one, prepare to meet the monster that runs it.
You are asked to list the universes in order from your first choice to your last.
This isn’t hard. Number [2] is first, then [4], then [3]. These offer decreasing chances of the prize with no risk of torture. Then [5], then [1], then [6], where the risk of torture increases from 50% to 100%.
By this reckoning, our actual universe is next to the worst of all of the possible worlds listed, making the Christian god almost as bad a god as there could be, just a notch above his under-lieutenant, Satan. This makes Jesus less than ten percent better than the worst imaginable monster god. Jesus’ universe is almost as malevolent a universe as one run by Satan alone. What a horrible world we have been born into according to Christian dogma!
For about ninety percent of mankind, it would have been better never to have been born at all. Of all of the aborted fetuses, at least ninety percent were luckier than those of us who were born - assuming that aborted fetuses all go to heaven.
I have a question what type of religion are you trying to promote here on this thread????

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477910 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
We human beings certainly don't create but we seem to take pleasure in destroying.
Think how inspirational that would be embroidered into a pillow for the sofa.
Counter_Strike wrote:
Mankind's main purpose is to worship or serve The Most High Yahweh (barack be He)
Then you would advise me to submit just like you, right?
Counter_Strike wrote:
Man in his very nature is destructive, covetous and lustful.
I see another potential throw pillow apophthegm possibility here. Or maybe refrigerator magnets.
Counter_Strike wrote:
We are like locusts, only worse.
This is the most beautiful one yet.
Counter_Strike wrote:
We are fortunate and barack (blessed) to be seen as worthy enough of salvation by the Creator.
What a prince. Or shar.

This psychology reminds me of a dog that has been beaten into submission, and now considers itself born to whacked by the rolled up magazine, and blessed on the days that it isn't.
Counter_Strike wrote:
his love supercedes the emotional wreckage type of love that we have, which usually ends up being lust, evny and covetousness
That might be a tight squeeze on a pillow.
Counter_Strike wrote:
their acursed disease called sin.
That's a more reasonable size for a pillow.

Seriously, dude - The world you see depends on what glasses you have been fitted with. I have no interest in inhabiting your world with you. You see a world of failure, death, disease, strife and the like. I live in a beautiful world, where people are mostly friendly and trying to do good.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477911 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
Because your flaws are highlighted, singled out and made known as abominable such as the gay, pagans, demon lovers, bestial sex practitioners, you feel hard done and downright agry that whatever debase practice you enjoy so deeply is called debauchery, profane and a sin.
Look at how you post. I think that we all have an interest in seeing fewer people trained to think like you do.
Counter_Strike wrote:
You see, one [crucified criminal] recognized who the Savior, was respectful in His presence and wanted to be with Him in paradise. The other was rebellious, disrespectful and not being very accountable for his sin.
I'm guessing that you're advising me to submit again, right? You understand, do you not, that that is your cardinal message here - submit, you wretched scum - not love or whatever else you might claim.
Counter_Strike wrote:
People find various excuses even under teh kitchen sink to justify their wrongs or their sinful deeds and thoughts.
I feel like breaking into song:

"Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near? Just like me, they long to be close to you."

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#477912 Jan 18, 2013
Morning.....

Wow....The thread has been "active" lately

“Do not get angry because others question what you believe, be calm and loving, for anger is the root of a faulty belief.”

~ Leon Brown

Thought for the Day

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#477913 Jan 18, 2013
You O Lord set before us life and good, death and evil, in that you command us to love the Lord our God, to walk in His ways and to keep Your commandments,Your statutes and Your judgments so that we may live and multiply and the Lord my God will bless me in the land which I go to possess. But if my heart turns away so that I do not hear, and I am drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I surely will perish and not possess the land you have prepared for me. You have set before me life and death, blessing and cursing, I will chose life so that myself and my descendents will live. We will love the Lord our God, obey Your voice and cling to You for You are life and length of days and we will dwell in the land which You swore to our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.(Deuteronomy 30)

Prayer for Today

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#477914 Jan 18, 2013
Encouraging Words....

God's voice is glorious in the thunder. We can't even imagine the greatness of his power.

Job 37:5

K-Love

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#477915 Jan 18, 2013
You know some of you people but not all of you almost appear to have a fear of the living word as well as God himself.

One must wonder what type of religion you are promoting and what your motive is for it all.

You take it on yourself to attact anothers beliefs but fall real short in stating why and what purpose it serve you in doing so.

one must wonder is it jealousy,satisfation to destroy someones pleasure and contentment.How can someone elses beliefs harm you personally.Maybe it just simply a way to entertaining yourselves to condemn someone else.

People have followed God for way to long for it to every change and the living word it is still around and going to be around until the end of time.I heard some say is almost 2000 years according to your time table that the living word has survived.What was generations ago is still right here today.

When you really give it some thought no one has to answer to anyone for what they believe.Even the sharing can be limited.One does not have to debate,argue or justify themselves to another human being.Most especially over the internet system.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477916 Jan 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Your bible story tells us about a god that failed at making sinless people just like he failed at making sinless angels. He also failed as a parent when he left his children unattended in the presence of the evil god he had fashioned, tossed out of heaven, and set loose on earth. And then he punished everybody else but himself.
Counter_Strike wrote:
If you continue your disrespectfulness, I will quit the conversation.
Disrespectful of what or whom? Your god? I've already made it clear that "I don't respect faith, I don't believe in gods, I find the bible to be flawed and inauthentic, and I consider the church to be a net societal burden. If you can hear those ideas without experiencing them as a personal attack or a reason to retaliate - and I believe that you always have - then you are OK with me"
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

If you need me to censor those opinions, then we probably have little left to discuss.
Counter_Strike wrote:
I enjoy our conversation, but you being anry or contemptuous won't change the price of rice or send your children to school.
Angry? I am critiquing what I consider to be a failed moral system and decadent psychology - one that you hold dear. You don't approve, and so you call me rebellious and angry. Sorry that you think so.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477917 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
You probably figure I'm a Christian much like you figure several other things. Again you're wrong.
Odd that you didn't volunteer what you consider yourself to be, just what you aren't. How are you different from a Christian apart from the Jewish references?
Counter_Strike wrote:
You have failed to grasp the understanding just so you can stick to your guns (lock, stock and empty barrels), use this conversation to air your disgruntlements but not regard any of my responses.
What response of yours have I disregarded? Did you mean considered and rejected, or ignored?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477918 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
basically, you're just using the conversations you're having on this thread to say what you want to say.
How unreasonable of me to express my opinions.
Counter_Strike wrote:
You really don't care for answers nor do you care to reason.
What answers have I asked you for? What answers have you offered that don't boil down to the world being horrible, people being wretched and duplicitous, and for me to submit to your ideology?

Sorry, but I happen to disagree with all of that. Your side has had the podium for centuries. Now, at long last, we have a voice, and it's our turn to rebut. If that's what you don't like, well, I guess that I'm not surprised.

These are mixed forums, and the population in the West is becoming increasingly secular and anticlerical. We are anonymous here, and free to express ourselves without fear of the usual reprisal. You might consider rethinking your position in the light of that.
endtime

AOL

#477919 Jan 18, 2013
.

PROOF Obama's ReElection = ANTICHRIST_______



.

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#477920 Jan 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
hmmmmm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =rB_fGxdq8FUXX
Awesome....Think how hard it was giving Mouth to Snout CPR to a wild animal like a Wolf....It could have turned on them at any time, but they had faith that they could help...

:-)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477921 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
You seem a touch sensitive. Be careful what you wish for.
That sounds ominous.
Counter_Strike wrote:
This is an internet thread. Real life or cyber space I'm rarely ever intimidated.
Did you feel threatened by me? How so?
Counter_Strike wrote:
I maintain however that respect begets respect and that a certain civility can still be maintained.... somehow.
Please don't confuse respect and politeness or civility. I can offer you the latter if you return it, but respect has to be earned, including respect for ideas.
Counter_Strike wrote:
I'm not sure you think for yourself at all bub ... While you do raise some decent point and make a good argument several instances.
I think that you just contradicted yourself.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477922 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
You seem quite easily unravelled friend. You're way to wound up and emotional.
Is this gong to be about me? I need to remind you that I don't really care what you think of me or my motives. Please limit your comments to my ideas.
Counter_Strike wrote:
what the world are you talking about "Your Species"?
I mean your species - the species to which you belong.
Counter_Strike wrote:
Are you of another kind or do you mean humanity?
Humanity - your species. My species.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477923 Jan 18, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
When we learn to accept and appreciate how flawed we are ...
You're certainly doing your part.
Counter_Strike wrote:
... and accept responsibility for our own shortcomings ...
And what does that mean specifically? What are you suggesting that I should do differently to accept responsibility for my shortcomings? Submit and beg forgiveness for being human?
Counter_Strike wrote:
... maybe we could effectively work together to make this planet a better and safer place to live
That's secular humanism's agenda,not the church's. It's philosophy is divisive, pessimistic, misanthropic, obstructionist, and sterile. What has it produced of value that couldn't be done as well or better without it?

The planet has become better every time authoritarian, faith based thought has been replaced by reason and evidence based thought,as when theocracies became secular democracies, and revelation and superstition became science.

This is the legacy of Judeo-Christianity:

”Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Lutherm, father of Protestantism.

Here's is one of your most prominent intellectuals today -a philosopher, no less - on reason

"...And my view here is, that the way in which I know Christianity is true is first and foremost on the basis of the witness of the Holy Spirit. In my heart. And that this gives me a self-authenticating means of knowing that Christianity is true wholly apart from the evidence. And therefore, if in some historically contingent circumstances, the evidence that I have available to me should turn against Christianity, I don't think that that contraverts the witness of the Holy Spirit. In such a situation, I should regard that as simply a result of the contingent circumstances that I'm in, and that if I were to pursue this with due diligence and with time, I would discover that the evidence, if in fact I could get the correct picture, would support exactly what the witness of the Holy Spirit tells me. So I think that's very important to get the relationship between faith and reason right..." . William Lane Craig

Unbelievably, he just described a closed mind. He said that if reason contradicts his faith, he would ignore reason and wait for his faith to seem reasonable again to him.

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#477924 Jan 18, 2013
Think I will post Todays thought again.....

“Do not get angry because others question what you believe, be calm and loving, for anger is the root of a faulty belief.”

~ Leon Brown

Thought for the Day

Have a great day...God Bless everyone

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477925 Jan 18, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
JUST CYBER INTERNET WORLD ARE LOOSERS
You tell them, tiger.

BTW, you misspelled "losers"
Dr Shrink wrote:
bum living inside of walmart dumpster with full head of fat cucumbers and out of date thrown hamburgers
that is with what kind of creatures you deal,and dr Shrink who is watching their activities with bad future
Thanks for the heads up, and keep up the good work watching them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477926 Jan 18, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the liturgical interpretations are in great conflict.
This reminds me. A few years ago a schism arose in the Episcopal church over the acceptance of homosexuals and the ordination of gay ministers. The "national" organization was accepting, and the vicarages (Board of Directors) of several parishes here in Socal began to speak of "secession," because they refused to accept homosexual ministers. An acquaintance of mine was a vicar in one of the rebellious parishes, and he would tell me how much they agonized until late in the night in attempts to determine what their god really wanted, or meant--they engaged in attempts to interpret the biblical texts as a guide to action.

In the end, they seceded (and joined the international Anglican church, under the Bishop of Uganda for Christ's sake).

Bigotry triumphed.

The sequel, still in play, is a court battle over ownership of the real estate. You see, legal title was in the name of the local parish; but under church law, the property was to be held in trust for the national organization. And of course, our secular courts are now charged with resolving the legal dilemma.
How exemplary!

Perhaps that is what Counter_Strike was referring to when he wrote, "When we learn to accept and appreciate how flawed we are and accept responsibility for our own shortcomings, maybe we could effectively work together to make this planet a better and safer place to live."

Speaking of unity, I am reminded of this from Emo Philips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist church of God!"

I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist church of God!"

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477927 Jan 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you playing Troll Ball again, IANS?
Why? Are you missing one?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477928 Jan 18, 2013
Doctr REALITY wrote:
You're on your way to hell.
Are you shaking the Scary Chicken On The Stick With Jingly Bells at me again?

"Arise, chicken, arise!"

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