Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Romans 8:1.”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#477271 Jan 16, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello friend,
I have been following some of your post and I agree with most of what you say. Lawest is in a man made religion NOT Christianity. Religion has become a cult of believers that rely on their own goodness, works and faithfullness that they feel will earn them something from God. They look down their noses at unbelievers and consider themselves to be above all..Even God. If I was an atheist and ALL I heard and seen from so called christians was post from lawest, quin and CS, I would not want any part of their cult either. They may quote scripture but if you pay close attention, They only post verses that demand their works and obedience...NEVER a verse that tells others just how much God/Jesus Loves them and how much they did for them. The very thing that Jesus came to free them from. They represent a god of hate,revenge and torture. While God is a just God, He doesnt hate one single person. They will throw up ONE single negative verse to disprove 100's of positive verses. Ignoring religious cults like those and focusing on WHY Jesus came and WHO Jesus is will clearly show someone (who is searching anyway) the right path to Christianity. Grace and Peace to you friend
So true!!! Great post Grace!!!

“Romans 8:1.”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#477272 Jan 16, 2013
Drew H wrote:
<quoted text>
They think that works produce faith, but we know that faith produces works, and it that faith that pleases God.
Good afternoon Drew, hope all is well with you and yours. Great post. It's amazing but sad to see just how many have missed the mark about faith producing works rather than works producing faith.

Have a great day my Brother in Christ. God bless.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#477273 Jan 16, 2013
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
The Good Lord didn't say we had to LIKE some folks (lol),
but yep, your right , we are to LOVE them enough to hope and pray for their souls.
The Good Lord don't want to loose not one soul.
The Bible said to love your neighbors AS YOUR SELF.
Jesus said to extend that to love your enemies as well.

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#477274 Jan 16, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasnt trying to be Mean..You just decided to take it that way. I just pointed out WHY he doesnt speak or write english very well. But if you feel that I offended you and want an aplogy then very well, I apologize for that. No harm was intended. You know, I was thinking....I call GOD...FATHER or Heavenly father..He hears me when I dont use his real First name. My earthly father was named John, but I called him "Daddy or Dad or father and quess what??? He KNEW who I was talking to, I didnt HAVE to call Him John. I believe calling GOD "daddy or Abba or Father is well pleasing to HIM. If your Religion requires something more from you then what God requires and you Believe that, then carry on with what you feel will bring YOU closer to God but WHY DEMAND others to tell YOU ( a mere human) what the Name of their God is? You sound like one of those "anti christ" followers who martyred people if they professed that they followd Christ..LOL I am kidding here, But you have NO right to Demand anything from anyone, especially the NAME of THEIR GOD. Have a blessed day in the Name of JESUS CHRIST the Lord of Lords and King of Kings..
There's nothing wrong with calling Him, Heavenly Father, that's fine. Heavenly Father, Abba, Av are ok. You say I demand people, but from the first time no one answered. I am however demanding Dr. Shrink so he knows what it feels like to be a thorn in the side of someone, for he needs to humble himself and calm down. Then and only then will he be able to teach but only if he's also willing to learn.

Also, I don't believe you were kidding, but that's for another time. "God" is not a name, there are many gods. A capitol 'G' doesn't sound any different from a common one, they are both still pronounced 'gawd'. When someone is in ignorance, it is actually ok but when the truth is revealed, I believe one should make an effort to do the right thing, to misunderstand is to err but to shun the truth is to sin. Besides, I don't believe me saying Yahweh or yashua is the first time you've heard it, so it shouldn't be new or unfamiliar.

Just saying.

Shalom!

Andrew (CS).

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#477275 Jan 16, 2013
Drew H wrote:
<quoted text>
They think that works produce faith, but we know that faith produces works, and it that faith that pleases God.
So Drew, tell me something; If you saw someone laying on the side of the street because he was hit by a passing car, who would be doing teh better thing? The one that stands across the street praying and having faith the man will be ok, or the other man who rushes over to help the fallen man?

Just asking.

Andrew (CS).

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#477276 Jan 16, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
<quoted text>
Shalom Duane. Beautiful morning isn't it. Did you receive my last post or two responding to you? One of my responses was to your post about El.
Andrew (CS).
Yes. I haven' thad a chance to respond in depth but the jist of my POV is that the Hebrewss had much reverence for the earlier Sumerian texts and didn't alter the references to the plurality of gods (Elohim) when incorporating them into their "history". There was also a bit of balking at distorting the original mythology too much, just like John doen't completely destroy Gen. 1:1 in his opening verse.

Note that the Torah/Pentatuch is a "hitory of mankind" and probably wasn't preserved as a "word of God".

Much as one might read Bede's "Ecclesiatical Hitory of the English People". It is more a protohistorical document than a divine revelation.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#477277 Jan 16, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible said to love your neighbors AS YOUR SELF.
Jesus said to extend that to love your enemies as well.
Amen G
Do you think that verse gets ignored a lot?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#477279 Jan 16, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What do these scriptures suggest to you about what your god does and doesn't know:
"Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge." - Job 37:16
"Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit." - Psalm 147:5
If that god had perfect knowledge, he knew that man would be a sinner before making him, and deliberately made sinners, right? I realize that you agree that that sounds wrong, and odd. Isn't that why you called the idea preposterous?
Yet what other conclusion is possible for a rational person? And what does it say about somebody who comes to any other conclusion?
It's that kind of unreasonableness to the doctrine that you see when you look at it closely that bothers skeptics. If you value rigor in thought, and sound arguments, you have to go where reason takes you.
But wait. It gets worse:
We're told that the god gave us free will. It's not really possible to say that we had free will if every move we would ever make was foreknown, and not possible to avoid, before we made it.
Want more?
Not only did the god knowingly make a sinful man and give him free will, he gave him curiosity, the gift of reason, and seeded the earth and skies with clues that contradict his bible. That's just not believable to a skeptic. It's impossible and self-contradictory.
I understand that if you need something like that to be true to support your faith, you simply accept it on faith however implausible or self-contradictory.
But I can't.
What those verses don't suggest, to me, is that "God" is omniscient. "Perfect knowledge" does not suggest infinite knowledge of all, past, present, and future, events. Past and present, yes. But, not future. Case in point...

I might have perfect knowledge of numbers and mathematics. But, this does not suggest that I have perfect knowledge of mathematical formulas that haven't been invented yet.

In saying that, "God" did not create man as sinners. Nor did "God" know man was going to sin. The proverbial tree of the knowledge of good and evil was His fail-safe, for the possibility that man might sin. Of course, man did. But, to say that "God" created man as sinners, considering all that's to take into account, is preposterous. It makes absolutely no sense, at all, to believe such a thing.

As to faith, my beliefs of faith might differ from the average believer. In the chapter it discusses faith, Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." My belief in "God" is not based on faith, as faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I've concluded that faith is encouraged and strengthened by what's written of and from Him. But, as to Him, I know He exists. As it's written, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." For example...

You don't have faith in electricity. Your faith is based on the device that causes the electricity to perform. I have faith that if I flip the switch, the light will turn on.

As it's written, "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Faith has no place in the belief that "God" exists. Faith, as I believe and all in all, is in what's written, as I said, and in the promised kingdom. The kingdom is what's "hoped for," but as of yet, "not seen."

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#477280 Jan 16, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
<quoted text>
There's nothing wrong with calling Him, Heavenly Father, that's fine. Heavenly Father, Abba, Av are ok. You say I demand people, but from the first time no one answered. I am however demanding Dr. Shrink so he knows what it feels like to be a thorn in the side of someone, for he needs to humble himself and calm down. Then and only then will he be able to teach but only if he's also willing to learn.
Also, I don't believe you were kidding, but that's for another time. "God" is not a name, there are many gods. A capitol 'G' doesn't sound any different from a common one, they are both still pronounced 'gawd'. When someone is in ignorance, it is actually ok but when the truth is revealed, I believe one should make an effort to do the right thing, to misunderstand is to err but to shun the truth is to sin. Besides, I don't believe me saying Yahweh or yashua is the first time you've heard it, so it shouldn't be new or unfamiliar.
Just saying.
Shalom!
Andrew (CS).
That makes sense but what does it mean then if someone says g-d in a curse word then. In your belief is that taking Gods Name in vain? Why does the bible capitolize G in God but puts little g in false gods? I am being sincere..Just asking questions about your belief. I wont understand if I dont ask questions..although I am NOT looking to change my beliefs in any way, we can all learn something from one another and have civil conversations. Deal?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#477281 Jan 16, 2013
CORRECTION: The proverbial tree of life was His fail-safe.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#477282 Jan 16, 2013
Drew H wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Scott. Well if the truth be told, Le le knows my beliefs, and she knows that I don't agree with her in her belief that all will be saved in the end. The difference is that we have genuine respect for each other and speak to each other in ways that are not condescending, therefore the respect remains. So tell the whole story, not just an excerpt from it.
Furthermore, are we not supposed to encourage others when we see growth?
This is the way it should be Drew. I tried posting something similar to this last night but of course, Nobody cared about being NICE to one another. Just shows WHY they are truly on here. They want to be RIGHT..Win a silly argument seems to be their ultimate goal instead of praying for one another and encouraging one another. Total opposite of what God expects from His children..Regardless of silly, OSAS issues. If we do the will of God and believe in His son and His finished work at the cross then we have eternal life, so why worry about tomorrow? If someone is secure in their faith, no amount of arguing is going to change that. SO, the fighting will continue, it seems.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#477284 Jan 16, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning Grace.
I imagine their idea of "entering into HIS rest" means the rest they get after having done all the work they believe they need to do for God to say "yep you worked that sin off, now get your rest for the next time you sin because you will have more work to do".
Hope you have a great day. God bless.
Good morning RA,
They will be too exhausted to have any type of "loving" relationship..just a slave/master relationship..I enjoy my Father/daughter relationship where I can simply bask in His love for me and have honest little talks with Him, In my own words, Not LOOOONNNGGGGG impressive religious words that men try to use just to make themselves look "good" to their god. LOL.. Like they can fool God :) I vision them frantically trying to write ALL the clever things their preacher man says to them on Sunday so they can bring it here and impress others with all their knowledge. Religion at its finest!! Have a great day also RA

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#477285 Jan 16, 2013
And because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.Matthew 24:12

And take heed to yourselves lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with sufeiting and drunkenness and cares of this life ao the day come upon you unwarees.Luke 21:34

Watch ye therefore and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all theses things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of man.Luke 21:36
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#477287 Jan 16, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning RA,
They will be too exhausted to have any type of "loving" relationship..just a slave/master relationship..I enjoy my Father/daughter relationship where I can simply bask in His love for me and have honest little talks with Him, In my own words, Not LOOOONNNGGGGG impressive religious words that men try to use just to make themselves look "good" to their god. LOL.. Like they can fool God :) I vision them frantically trying to write ALL the clever things their preacher man says to them on Sunday so they can bring it here and impress others with all their knowledge. Religion at its finest!! Have a great day also RA
lol, Robots?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#477288 Jan 16, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Amen... hey also, please explain the flaming sword, so to speak, around the tree of life. I think I have a fair understanding of it but would like to know your interpretation of that. My own understanding of that is Adam and Eve having already sinned was sent out of the Garden lest they partake of that tree of life and remain in their sinful condition forever. Now I'm paraphrasing because I'm going by bits of memory but what is your take? Thanks.
I haven't really studied this event much. But, you might be right.

As we examine the scriptures, fire is always symbolic of one of two things. One, judgment. Two, purging. The sword is, symbolically, the word of "God." In the case of the flaming sword, I believe it's symbolic for divine judgment, the word being "instant death," and not a purging, at all.

I believe that the garden symbolizes the same kingdom of heaven that the most High's about to restore. In this, Adam and Eve already had everlasting life. And I've always believed that the one went hand in hand with the other, so I'm not sure the reference as to the concern of their partaking of this tree of life while they were still in the garden. I mean, all in all, everlasting life is a gift of "God," in the literal sense. And they were cast out of the same garden in which the tree of life was in the midst of it.

How could they have taken hold on something that's, literally, a gift of "God" and in His control? There's more to that story that meets the eye.

You've given me something to study, my friend. I'll share what I learn if you share with me what you learn! lol

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477289 Jan 16, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
I believe and I know, you don't. That's fine....for now.
What do you know that I don't?
Counter_Strike wrote:
Forgive me ahead of time but didn't I already address this?
Perhaps, but not with me. However, I have heard the apologetics defending concomitant omniscience and free will from many others.
Counter_Strike wrote:
If your son throws a stone and hits another child in the head, are you responsible for it happening? Your child exhibiting free will had nothing to do with you or what you want for your child. Sadly, he chose to exercise his free will outside of your command and your loving teaching of morals and shalom. You wouldn't be considered a sinner unless you exercised the will to sin and enact it in thought or deed. It is a choice, as hard as it is. If you truly loved your child, your very own, would you force him or her to your will or would you allow them with guidance to grow and eventually choose their own path?
This sounds like an argument for why your god grants free will, not one explaining how omniscience and free will can coexist.

And I tried to control my children's thinking as much as I could in the areas that I had a strong opinion about how they should behave.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477290 Jan 16, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
Love doesn't hold one bound with chain and rope, it sets free, and the choice is yours whether you choose to stay or go. Forced love isn't love, it is fear and bondage.
If I could magically make another person love me that I wanted to be loved by, it would be as good for me as if they had done so naturally. I did try to make my wife love me when we were dating, and I realized that I loved her.
Counter_Strike wrote:
Caring is sharing, but give a child too much candy that's not great for their health. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a terrible act. Men, women and children perished in a consuming inferno. However for the sake of the righteous and the continued existence of a righteous people upon the earth it was the right thing to destroy the city.
Disagree.

Your god should have just made them the way he wanted them instead of killing them. You seem to judge whatever your god does as good because he did it. That's not a moral code at all.
Counter_Strike wrote:
The Most High Yahweh (barack be He) is Almighty, this knows good and evil inside out.
Your god does evil things by my standards.
Counter_Strike wrote:
There is nothing that He doesn't know or is incapable of doing.
He was incapable of producing a sinless man even after two tries. He is said to be incapable of being in the presence of sin.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#477291 Jan 16, 2013
Counter_Strike wrote:
He may do things that we human beings may say is horrible or 'Not Good', but in the end, He always does the RIGHT thing.
Not by my standards.
Counter_Strike wrote:
Our finite understanding of good and evil cannot reason with the infinite wisdom, understanding and knowledge of the Almighty Creator.
This is the "puny minds" argument. It's used to quench the cognitive dissonance that conflicting ideas produce - the voice that says, "that doesn't make sense."

That is done by making the ridiculous acceptable using the puny minds ruse, and in Christianity, calling the inner voice Satan. The claim is that our minds are simply too puny to understand the god's infinite wisdom and transcendent justice. We're like ants compared to him, so we shouldn't trust our own puny ant minds when they tell us that something attributed to the god is immoral or absurd.

We should just believe, however crazy it sounds to our puny ant minds, because it would be arrogant of us to think for ourselves. That's your message, too, is it not?

The puny mind ruse is deplolyed whenever you are asked to accept the ridiculous, which comes in two flavors, one for each of the two distinctly human cognitive faculties: intellection - what is true - and conscience - what is good and right:

Here are examples of each. First, the intellectually ridiculous:

"Everything that exists must have a creator, therefore god exists. God doesn't need a creator because he is out of time. If that seems contradictory to you, it is because your mind is too puny to comprehend it, like an ant trying to learn calculus."

Morally ridiculous:

"God's love for man is perfect. Those that don't worship him will be turned over to a demon to be tortured forever. That is perfect love even if you can't see it because of your puny mind, like a child crying about getting a vaccine."

Once you perfect this, cognitive dissonance is dead, and so are your hopes of escaping the matrix.
Counter_Strike wrote:
I'm not making excuses for Him either, because He doesn't need it.
I think you are. They call what you are doing apologetics.

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#477292 Jan 16, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello friend,
I have been following some of your post and I agree with most of what you say. Lawest is in a man made religion NOT Christianity. Religion has become a cult of believers that rely on their own goodness, works and faithfullness that they feel will earn them something from God. They look down their noses at unbelievers and consider themselves to be above all..Even God. If I was an atheist and ALL I heard and seen from so called christians was post from lawest, quin and CS, I would not want any part of their cult either. They may quote scripture but if you pay close attention, They only post verses that demand their works and obedience...NEVER a verse that tells others just how much God/Jesus Loves them and how much they did for them. The very thing that Jesus came to free them from. They represent a god of hate,revenge and torture. While God is a just God, He doesnt hate one single person. They will throw up ONE single negative verse to disprove 100's of positive verses. Ignoring religious cults like those and focusing on WHY Jesus came and WHO Jesus is will clearly show someone (who is searching anyway) the right path to Christianity. Grace and Peace to you friend
I think another apology from you would suffice, and not really for me, but for Lawest and Quin. You full well know that Faith without Works is dead, therefore the Commandments (Commands) are not void yet you teach people here that it is Grace through Faith absent Law. Worse, you call our beliefs man-made cults.

When did the Hebrew Qahal become man-made and a cult? Why does one who believes different from you, who expanded on their knowledge and have been discovering truth bit by bit become a part of cults? When does seekers of the Kingdom of The Most High become cult members and those who sit down in church, sermon after sermon while not seeking anything become ok? Your post is negative and incendiary.

This is really poor and the people who I expect much better from have let me down. This is a sad state of affairs because you know better, but you do not think, you just recite what sounds good based on church doctrine. A lot of recital of scripture without substance, skimming around texts and not stating truth. They say Christianity is an Abrahamic religion; what part of it resembles anything Abrahamic? think about that before you criticize. yes, yahweh (barack be He) loves us, but we were called First to obedience, not to save souls, for you and I can't save anyone, but we teach, and the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) does the work. It was the disobedience of our foreparents that landed us in this mess in the first place. It will profit you noght but ash to teach Lawlessness.

Andrew (CS).

“Quo Vadis”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#477293 Jan 16, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
So true!!! Great post Grace!!!
What a disgrace. For a pious man such as yourself, you seem not to do well with answering valid questions. So you pick up for those who insult others. Quite poor and very shameful.

In either case, I hope you're feeling much better today.

Andrew (CS).

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 8 min confrinting with ... 670,354
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 8 min RiversideRedneck 100,589
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 10 min Joe Fortuna 980,174
Bush is a hero (Sep '07) 8 hr Sky Writer 31 184,288
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 11 hr Jehowa Witness 46,179
Treating others with respect 12 hr UnderstandPeople 14
Do any attractive cougars or milfs want to trad... (Dec '11) 14 hr Seejay 4
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) Wed Pegasus 286,455
More from around the web