“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#476261 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Juicylu..That was very sweet. I have said this so many times already but will say it again, The thing about witnessing on a forum is this: The reader cannot hear how the writer is delivering their message. They read it and add their own emotions. Example..I know that Your post above was written with sincerity. Now, imagine you were LOOKING for a smart aleck comment and go back and read your post with that mentality..Notice the difference? Unless a person can HEAR the compassion or lack of it.The reader will add their own emotions to anything someone writes. We are all quilty of doing this from time to time; However when a certain poster has constant dislike for another, The only thing they will read from that certain poster is negativity. Thanks for posting this. I hope my response made some sense. LOL..Even when a person adds NOTHING but Gods written scripture, certain people still take that as an insult. They dont read it with love if they are looking for hate, arguments and a "I am right" attitude. Have a blessed day. You have a very kind heart
When you put it that way it makes sense yeah, I guess I didn't really think of it, I've noticed some very offensive stuff on some other threads but I guess subtle insults are harder to spot. I think you have a kind heart too Grace, thank you <3

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#476262 Jan 13, 2013
Juicylu wrote:
I mean no offence to anyone but I don't know what you and BLL are arguing about when most of your beliefs look pretty similar to me, just different in wording, unless I'm missing something.
No offense taken, but...

First, Juicylu, I really don't appreciate when people refer to discussions I'm in as "arguments," as I try, to the best of my ability, to remain as respectful as humanly possible and not argumentative. I don't believe I'm being argumentative simply because I expect the same common courtesy that I extend to all else, addressing assertions and answering questions as expected, and not just ignoring them. And as far as Grace Walker's beliefs and mine go, I'm sure that a lot of them are similar. But, when it comes to the idea that believers can choose whether keeping the commandments is necessary or not, I have no choice but to expose the truth of the matter. The same goes with this "once saved, always saved" doctrine.

I'm sure you've noticed how that either, Skombolis (especially), Qu_innocence, LAWEST100, Counter_Strike, or myself (especially), would compose a post with scripture quotes, with or without commentary and/or interpretation, that shows either, that it's a must we keep the commandments, or how the term "if" is used to indicate a stipulation. The fact of the matter is, such beliefs, as Grace Walker's, could only be valid if all these other verses didn't exist. In this, such beliefs can only exist if the interpretation of the other verses are compromised. Such beliefs only exist because the (most likely, incorrect) interpretation of one verse is highly regarded while the others ignored, or wholly rejected altogether. Case in point...

As a warning to the converted Gentiles regarding the disbelief of Israel, Paul wrote, "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Now, in your opinion, does it sound like salvation is guaranteed? They were told, "Be not highminded, but fear." What's to fear if salvation is guaranteed? If salvation was guaranteed with no chance of losing salvation, then why would Paul write, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"? What's there to work out? And why fear and trembling?

Truly, my posts might come off a bit argumentative. But, believe me, that's not my intention. As we've all come to agree with, at times, the tone of our posts are difficult to determine. But, if anything, pay close attention to our "argument." The same verses, among many others, have been quoted numerous times, but people refuse to address them, to show how either, we're in error, or how they remain harmonious with the verses that they use to attempt to prove their beliefs accurate. All I ask for is the same common courtesy. Why, just last night, I was accused of perverting scriptures when, in actuality, all I did was quote verses while not adding any commentary or interpretation to any of the verses I quoted. And sadly, this has become quite common, not only in this thread, but in almost all threads.

Thank you for your time and consideration, Juicylu.

Until next time...

Shalowm.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476263 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Quin.
Great post. I have a question though. Why is it that a person hears the Grace message and the first thing they say is....They think they can do anything they want and still be saved? Thats the wrong mentality to have when it comes to Grace. I know that there are people who do that,
Good Morning Grace, Amen... they think that no matter what they do... even to the point that if a person who had accepted Christ in the past backslid and never repented and turned back to Christ... that they are forever saved no matter what. But that is not scripturally true. That is false.

“Messenger w/ a Message”

Since: Sep 07

planet earth, for now

#476264 Jan 13, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Regarding the study on Revelation 2 regarding the church at Ephesus is that one could go too far with "works" and forget the "first works". The very first of the first works is to love God WITH ALL YOUR HEART.... then it goes on to say with all your soul, then mind and the last of it is "with all your strength" Mark 12:30. It seems like they were focusing too much on the last part (the strength) when they should of been focused on the first parts... heart and soul and then the rest of it.
Jesus: "For where your treasure is, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO." Mt 6:21
So rather than treasuring God in their hearts, they were treasuring God with their deeds.
----------
And the pendulum could swing to the other extreme also when it comes to just a message of Grace... as such was the case with the Nicolatians. They felt like they were already saved so they could do whatever they liked. So that is what they did. Now though Jesus rebuked the church at Ephesus for leaving their first love... He gave them credit for hating "the deeds" of the Nicolatians. Look at what Jesus said:
Jesus (to Ephesus): "But you have this in your favor - You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."
Though the term "antinomianism" was coined much later, in deed, this is what they believed in. It was just a message of salvation through grace and faith alone. A lot of the antinomianists (which I was one myself) quote Ephesians 2:8,9 often but they forsake to go further into verses 10 and 11 of the same chapter where Paul refers to "good works'. And James complete the circle also by saying that Faith without works is dead. Just like the body without the spirit is dead. They go hand in hand.
So again, works only is one extreme and is wrong... but it seems to be more preferable than the other extreme message of Grace only. There has to be a balance of both.
Okay, done with Ephesus... good lessons for me. Moving on to Smyrna. Jesus is Lord.
:)
Hey Q, when do you think the book of Revelation was written?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#476265 Jan 13, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Regarding the study on Revelation 2 regarding the church at Ephesus is that one could go too far with "works" and forget the "first works". The very first of the first works is to love God WITH ALL YOUR HEART.... then it goes on to say with all your soul, then mind and the last of it is "with all your strength" Mark 12:30. It seems like they were focusing too much on the last part (the strength) when they should of been focused on the first parts... heart and soul and then the rest of it.
Jesus: "For where your treasure is, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO." Mt 6:21
So rather than treasuring God in their hearts, they were treasuring God with their deeds.
----------
And the pendulum could swing to the other extreme also when it comes to just a message of Grace... as such was the case with the Nicolatians. They felt like they were already saved so they could do whatever they liked. So that is what they did. Now though Jesus rebuked the church at Ephesus for leaving their first love... He gave them credit for hating "the deeds" of the Nicolatians. Look at what Jesus said:
Jesus (to Ephesus): "But you have this in your favor - You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."
Though the term "antinomianism" was coined much later, in deed, this is what they believed in. It was just a message of salvation through grace and faith alone. A lot of the antinomianists (which I was one myself) quote Ephesians 2:8,9 often but they forsake to go further into verses 10 and 11 of the same chapter where Paul refers to "good works'. And James complete the circle also by saying that Faith without works is dead. Just like the body without the spirit is dead. They go hand in hand.
So again, works only is one extreme and is wrong... but it seems to be more preferable than the other extreme message of Grace only. There has to be a balance of both.
Okay, done with Ephesus... good lessons for me. Moving on to Smyrna. Jesus is Lord.
:)
Jesus Himself said we cant mix the "new" with the "old"...Law(old) and Grace (new)..He tells us this with these parables..

"And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a NEW garment upon an OLD; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

And no man putteth NEW wine into OLD winskin..else they ferment and he LOSES BOTH.—Luke 5:36-39, KJV

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#476266 Jan 13, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't even start with me Skom because I won't be dragged into yet another instance of you going on the attack of someone you don't like. And don't even be so hypocritical as to say I'm taking sides with someone that quote "tell others their beliefs are of the devil and call other people blind". Because your sidekick g_o_d (who you take sides with all of the time) says that to people all the time in here and you never bat an eye when he says it. Because as we all know you count on him for an ally to turn to during your countless attacks you spring on people on a daily basis in here.
Are you ever going to outgrow that?
You're being a complete hypocrite Skom and everybody sees it. So take your juvenile attempt at dragging me into this down the road pal because it won't work.
You couldn't be anymore transparent. The reason you're now mad at me and attacking me as well is because I'm calling it like it is and because I'm defending someone you don't like. I'm calling a spade a spade and exposing your hypocrisy and you don't like it. One would think you'd be use to that by now. Because it's happened to you many many times in here.
Open your eyes Skom. There's more people that have posted in here that you've attacked at one time or another than there are people that you haven't attacked. I would be willing to bet of all the regulars (and of course any grey boxer) that post and have posted in here you could probably count the ones you haven't attacked using just the fingers on your two hands.
So attack away Skom, I've seen it before and I've been a target of it many times as well (like since the first day you showed up in here). And I'm sure I'll see it and be a target again. And even though it's nothing new it has gotten rather old. But it's something that many in here have learned to ignore.
We've all come to expect it from you. Because it's all a part of your broken record pattern that we've all seen over and over and over again. And even though those of us that have been here since you first showed up in here have gotten use to it and have seen it so many times before from you we continue to hope and pray for the day it finally stops. Because it's become very old, very childish, and very boring to watch day after day after day in here.
***Please bookmark this post to refer back to if you're looking for a response from me to the posts to come from you attacking me and trying to drag me into yet another one of the countless juvenile fights you love to be in.***
true.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476267 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Quin.
However, for the most part, They do not think that way.
Some do believe that way concerning Once Saved Always Saved... that no matter what a person does, backslide or whatever, they are still saved no matter what. But some do not go to that full extreme (that a person can do what they want) but they are still in a crux because when they are asked the question of a person who completely left Christ and dies... they may not say that person is not saved but they justify themselves and their own consciences (seared by a hot iron) by saying that we cannot judge because they don't have a better answer... but the scriptures tells us plainly. I think that those who don't go to the full extreme of OSAS, still believe in their hearts (with good intentions) that the person who backslide and dies is saved.

Can't stay that long because have to get ready for work shortly.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#476268 Jan 13, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>No offense taken, but...
First, Juicylu, I really don't appreciate when people refer to discussions I'm in as "arguments," as I try, to the best of my ability, to remain as respectful as humanly possible and not argumentative. I don't believe I'm being argumentative simply because I expect the same common courtesy that I extend to all else, addressing assertions and answering questions as expected, and not just ignoring them. And as far as Grace Walker's beliefs and mine go, I'm sure that a lot of them are similar. But, when it comes to the idea that believers can choose whether keeping the commandments is necessary or not, I have no choice but to expose the truth of the matter. The same goes with this "once saved, always saved" doctrine.
I'm sure you've noticed how that either, Skombolis (especially), Qu_innocence, LAWEST100, Counter_Strike, or myself (especially), would compose a post with scripture quotes, with or without commentary and/or interpretation, that shows either, that it's a must we keep the commandments, or how the term "if" is used to indicate a stipulation. The fact of the matter is, such beliefs, as Grace Walker's, could only be valid if all these other verses didn't exist. In this, such beliefs can only exist if the interpretation of the other verses are compromised. Such beliefs only exist because the (most likely, incorrect) interpretation of one verse is highly regarded while the others ignored, or wholly rejected altogether. Case in point...
As a warning to the converted Gentiles regarding the disbelief of Israel, Paul wrote, "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Now, in your opinion, does it sound like salvation is guaranteed? They were told, "Be not highminded, but fear." What's to fear if salvation is guaranteed? If salvation was guaranteed with no chance of losing salvation, then why would Paul write, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"? What's there to work out? And why fear and trembling?
Truly, my posts might come off a bit argumentative. But, believe me, that's not my intention. As we've all come to agree with, at times, the tone of our posts are difficult to determine. But, if anything, pay close attention to our "argument." The same verses, among many others, have been quoted numerous times, but people refuse to address them, to show how either, we're in error, or how they remain harmonious with the verses that they use to attempt to prove their beliefs accurate. All I ask for is the same common courtesy. Why, just last night, I was accused of perverting scriptures when, in actuality, all I did was quote verses while not adding any commentary or interpretation to any of the verses I quoted. And sadly, this has become quite common, not only in this thread, but in almost all threads.
Thank you for your time and consideration, Juicylu.
Until next time...
Shalowm.
BLL, said.... Why, just last night, I was accused of perverting scriptures when, in actuality, "all I did was quote verses while not adding any commentary or interpretation to any of the verses I quoted"...

Did you miss ALL the verses that I quoted last night that backs up my claim? Just verses..No commentary. There is verses that back up both..However, If you are going to quote Paul, you must know that paul ONLY preached The Grace Messgae. The commandments we are to obey are The 2 that Jesus left..ALL the rest hang on these 2 commandments..Do you need or want the scripture that backs that up as well?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#476269 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
Why is it that a person hears the Grace message and the first thing they say is....They think they can do anything they want and still be saved?
Speaking for myself...

Because I've seen many a believer that not only believed in such a doctrine, but preached the same, and got caught committing adultery, fornication, or what-have-you. And all the while before they became exposed, they were highly regarded as "spiritual," and as having the Holy Spirit. Then, they would come on television crying and begging for forgiveness.

What thoughts and beliefs led them to think and act as they did? And how many of them would have came out and admitted their sins had they not been exposed?

Now, I understand that this isn't the normal mode of operation for all that believe in such doctrines, but we've been given enough evidence that this mode exists, nonetheless. I don't think numbers matter in this case, as if such doctrines shouldn't be examined and re-examined because only a minority gets exposed as hypocrites. To understand more my contention, look into Jose Luis dejesus Miranda and see just how far this issue goes.

Until next time, my friend...

Shalowm.

https://www.google.com/webhp...

http://www.youtube.com/results... .

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476270 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
A person who believes in The Grace Gospel understands that ALL their sins are forgiven and from that, they tend to stay away from willful sin out of adoration and respect.
I respect and understand that they believe in the message of God's Grace... everyone who claims to be a follower of Christ ought to believe in this note:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God <--- NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. FOR WE are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:89

That is a balanced way of looking at that particular scripture. You have the Grace message there that we all know about in 8,9... and then it goes on to verse 10 about Good Works... Grace, Faith and Good Works go hand in hand.

The demonic teaching is the Antinomianistic "Once Saved Always Saved" Gospel, not the Grace Gospel. The Grace Gospel is fine.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476271 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth be told, People who disagree with Justification by Faith sin just as much as those under grace...
Actually, I think justification by Faith and Grace go hand in hand... Those who are followers Christ should believe in both and they should not be separated in the life of the Believer... and to include with those... Faith without works is dead.

But what should be separted from the balanced approach of Justification by Faith, Grace and good works....is the Once Saved Always Saved gospel. OSAS isn't scriptural at all...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#476272 Jan 13, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Good Morning Grace, Amen... they think that no matter what they do... even to the point that if a person who had accepted Christ in the past backslid and never repented and turned back to Christ... that they are forever saved no matter what. But that is not scripturally true. That is false.
The word “backslider” or “backsliding” does not appear in the New Testament and is used in the Old Testament primarily of Israel

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#476273 Jan 13, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Speaking for myself...
Because I've seen many a believer that not only believed in such a doctrine, but preached the same, and got caught committing adultery, fornication, or what-have-you. And all the while before they became exposed, they were highly regarded as "spiritual," and as having the Holy Spirit. Then, they would come on television crying and begging for forgiveness.
What thoughts and beliefs led them to think and act as they did? And how many of them would have came out and admitted their sins had they not been exposed?
Now, I understand that this isn't the normal mode of operation for all that believe in such doctrines, but we've been given enough evidence that this mode exists, nonetheless. I don't think numbers matter in this case, as if such doctrines shouldn't be examined and re-examined because only a minority gets exposed as hypocrites. To understand more my contention, look into Jose Luis dejesus Miranda and see just how far this issue goes.
Until next time, my friend...
Shalowm.
https://www.google.com/webhp...
http://www.youtube.com/results... .
AND the same sort of things happen to those who DONT believe in the Grace Message. Its was a choice they made. Doctrine had nothing to do with that. Weak defense there BLL...ALL sin regarding of doctrine.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476274 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no difference there and no difference in sin, weather it be willful or not.
That's where a lot of people get hung up. But God judges the motives and intentions of the heart also. For example, it was Eve who sinned first... Adam sinned secondly but yet it was Adam's fault. What was the difference between the two? There is a difference.

Another example, God told Ezekiel that He would show him greater sins that the people of Israel were doing. And I think we already discussed about Jesus saying that sodom's judgement would be more tolerable than some of those towns that He preached to. Then we have the parable of the "talents"... I could go on and on but don't have the time unfortunately.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#476276 Jan 13, 2013
Not here to judge,nor find fault only to share.
What you decide to do is up to you.

How does God regard backsliding.

Thy backslidings shall reprove thee it is an evil thing and bitter that thou hast forsaken the Lord thy God of hosts.Jermimah 2:19

If any man draws back My soul shall have no pleasure in him.Hebrews 10:38

What has ever been the tendency of God's people.

My people are bent on backsliding from me.Horea 11:7

Continued next post

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#476275 Jan 13, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>I respect and understand that they believe in the message of God's Grace... everyone who claims to be a follower of Christ ought to believe in this note:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God <--- NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. FOR WE are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:89
That is a balanced way of looking at that particular scripture. You have the Grace message there that we all know about in 8,9... and then it goes on to verse 10 about Good Works... Grace, Faith and Good Works go hand in hand.
The demonic teaching is the Antinomianistic "Once Saved Always Saved" Gospel, not the Grace Gospel. The Grace Gospel is fine.
Understood. OSAS will be argued about until Jesus returns and then we will all know. In the meantime, If we continue as we are, we have nothing to fret over.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#476277 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
Jesus Himself said we cant mix the "new" with the "old"...Law(old) and Grace (new)..He tells us this with these parables..
"And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a NEW garment upon an OLD; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
And no man putteth NEW wine into OLD winskin..else they ferment and he LOSES BOTH.—Luke 5:36-39, KJV
"Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."

The point our anointed Savior was making as he referred to new wine in old wine-skins is that, we can't expect to achieve spiritual enlightenment without, first, changing our worldly thoughts and feelings. What good is it to learn the spiritual significance of the law if we're only going to remain thinking, acting, reacting, and speaking, the same way we did prior to our learning? In the end, we'll only lose our lifestyle and that which we've learned.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Until next time, my friend...

Shalowm.

“Romans 8:1.”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#476278 Jan 13, 2013
THREE WORDS THAT PROVE
ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED

NOTE: This Bible study should only be read by those who know or who are willing to learn their English grammar and those who know how to use the Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary.


The three words that prove “once saved, always saved” as a valid doctrine are ALL, NEVER and IRREVOCABLE. The following definitions are taken out of the Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary:

as an adjective -

All - entire, complete
1. The whole number of...
2. The whole quantity of...
3. Every one of...
4. Any, any whatsoever
5. Every
6. The greatest possible

Bible Proof Verses:

“and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.” 1 John 1:7c

“He made you alive with Him, having forgiven us ALL our transgressions.” Colossians 2:13b, c


Greek Word Used in Bible for Above Verses:“pas”

Vine’s Greek Dictionary Definition of “pas”:


1. All, every, every kind or variety.
2. Highest degree, the maximum of what is referred to
3. Totality of the things being referred to (in plural)

COMMENT: Those who say that a person can “fall away”,“walk away”,“turn away”, or “backslide away” from the Lord, do not understand that the Lord has cancelled their sin debt completely. This includes ALL “fall aways”, ALL “walk aways”, ALL “turn aways” and ALL “backslide aways” from the Lord, since ALL these things are sins and therefore have ALL been paid for into the future until we die. To say that a person can “walk away” or “turn” from the Lord and thus lose salvation, assumes that Jesus forgot to pay for the “walk aways” and “turn aways”. He didn’t forget them, however. Those sins were also paid for at the cross and that’s why ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. There is no way that we can lose our salvation.

http://www.gnbcbible.com/threewords.htm

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#476279 Jan 13, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
The word “backslider” or “backsliding” does not appear in the New Testament and is used in the Old Testament primarily of Israel
"shall depart from the faith" then... that, similarly among others phrases like that are in the NT.
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#476280 Jan 13, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Good Morning Grace, Amen... they think that no matter what they do... even to the point that if a person who had accepted Christ in the past backslid and never repented and turned back to Christ... that they are forever saved no matter what. But that is not scripturally true. That is false.
you are right
Jesus died for His chosen ones,and save His chosen ones predestned EPH 1;3-12 .....always saved

And Jesus dies for His second flock own to Him-rev 7;9 ..for great great also saved but not always saved

also Jesus redeem only His chosen ones,protect His chosen one, give a grace only to His chosen ones

Jesus did,nt die for members of satan kingdom,also he didn't die or save THEM NOT BELONGING TO HIS OWN 2 FLOCKS,HE IS SHEPHERD ONLY HIS FLOCK FOR WHOM HE DIED AND SAVE

HIS WORD IS FIRST AND LAST,

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