“Messenger w/ a Message”

Since: Sep 07

planet earth, for now

#474161 Jan 2, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That is because many of my statements are common knowledge among thre learned.
There are not even fragments of a single Bible document earlier than 150 AD and even that is questionable.
The majority view is that at least seven of Paul's leters are genuine. The opinion on Thomas is divided although paleopghraphy indicates that it is much earlier than Biblicl gospel.
The majority view also holds that Mark is earlier than Matthew, Matthew is earlier than Luke/Acts and that Luke/acts were written after Paul's death as well as being earlier works than John.
BTW, the destruction of the Temple is NOT an indicator of the age of a christian document. It is like saying Abraham Lincoln lived before 1812 because he doesn't mention the burning of Washington in the Gettysburg address.
Perhaps the earliest piece of (NT) Scripture surviving is a fragment of a papyrus codex containing John 18:31-33 and 37. It is called the Rylands Papyrus (P52) and dates from 130 A.D., having been found in Egypt. The Rylands Papyrus has forced the critics to place the fourth gospel back into the first century, abandoning their earlier assertion that it could not have been written then by the Apostle John.(Merrill F. Unger, Unger's Bible Handbook (Chicago: Moody Press, 1967), 892.)

(NT) added by me for clarification.

Source, author, publisher, year and page of evidence which contradicts your claim of 150 A.D. which is not substantiated.

So what about the many of your statements which are not common knowledge among the learned? Still, you and others here post things that I'm sure are copy and paste and are rarely properly annotated.

I'm just saying that you seem to post as if you are the authority and no one else has any credibility. From what I gather, there are many here who are as credible, and even more credible than you and your unnamed sources of the learned.

BTW, Happy New Year.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#474163 Jan 2, 2013
reggieboy2013 wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible isn't as simplistic as you think it is. You are adding to the word of God by your statement that our actions play a factor in God's choice of who He has chosen to save.
There again , you are ignoring that man cannot work towards his salvation. The choice is God's. Otherwise God would show favoratism or have respect unto a man's work. The bible does not support that theory. No works.
I didn't add a thing

As usual in these types of conversations you ignored everything I asked and ignored all the scripture

If God wants all men to be saved and nothing we do matters on who he will save despite hundreds of verses to support that it does matter, that we must repent, have faith, obey, then please explain why all men are not saved?

Is God not capable of saving everyone even though he wants all to be saved? Please answer the question

Thank you

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#474164 Jan 2, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Just wanted to add this scripture that is also prevalent to the discussion at hand == > >>
Show Commentary
1 Corinthians 15:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
Show
Thx forat and agree with your last post as well. Rushing out the door, will catch up more later

(T) peace

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474166 Jan 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Obeying isn't thinking we can do it ourselves, it is simply obeying
I don't follow how being obedient is not giving the glory to God and how not believing we have to do what he tells us is
I understand your premise that Jesus did everything for us but I simply disagree he didn't expect us to follow his teachings after the sacrifice.
Consider if you were speeding and got in a bad accident and killed someone and could be facing life in jail but the judge has mercy on you as he can see you are truly sorry and suspends your sentence and waives the jail time but tells you don't ever speed again and you happily agree. Then as you leave the court room you take off speeding again. To me that is what it is like to claim no matter how much we sin it doesn't affect our righteousness in God's eyes and to claim obedience isn't required.
Jesus didn't die on the cross so we could continue to disobey him and still sin and on top of it claim we don't have to obey him.
Doing what God tells you to do is giving the glory to God
And no we are not always going to butt heads...except maybe on this:)
(T) Peace
Hi Skom...You are correct. I just wish you wouldnt "think that we disobey" Jesus whenever, I say that We are not under the Obedience of Law. That doesnt make me go out and disobey..I actually find myself being more obedient but I realize that theonly obedience God requires of us, IS obedience to His Will, which is believing in WHO Jesus is and WHAT Jesus done. However, or arguments sake, I will give in and say..OK..Yes, we are to be obedient. I just dont believe that we can be obedient to earn salvation and keep it.thats all. God has adopted us as His Children through Jesus Christ. IF you adopted a child and that child disobeyed you, you may punish the child, but you wouldnt un-adopt him. He will still be your child..FOREVER. Lets not focus on the negative things that we are fussing over. It just isnt worth it. OK?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#474167 Jan 2, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul was proud of the faith of the Christians who lived in cruel dangerous Rome.The Colosseum were there where they turned the lions on the Christians as sport for the Emperor Nero.The catacombs,dark and mysterious was the home of many of those who knew Jesus.The world came to Rome the melting pot of the Empire and before long the scttered little band of Christians strong in faith made their witness to them.As the travelers returned home to the far-flung outpost of the earth they remembered they had heard Jesus Christ is Lord!Paul writes I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you.Every one of them stood for Christ even when going down in the mouths of lions,or burned at the stake or crucified.Everyone.Your faith is spoken of thoughout the whole world.Faith that's talked about. We are not told what exactly was said;But this faith got attention.Maybe it's time for the lions and the stake again to weld us together if that's what it takes for the world to speak of our faith to talk of it through out the earth and to say I heard another say Jesus is Lord.Pauls message in Romans is The just shall live by faith.For the righteousness of God in our lives is revealed by our faith.Have you considered that the gospel of Christ is the only thing in the world founded on purely on faith.Paul tells us Faith works.
Corinth was a melting pot of the various socio-economic groups in the Roman Empire and this city was as racially divided as any of in this empire if not more.People receiving Christ don't always allow Him to raise above their social or racial prejudices.This was especially true in Corinth and became such a problem to Paul that he spent more time teaching on the Unity of Christians than in any of his other writtings.Here he beseeches the brethren invoking the Name of Jesus their newly found Lord to agree to speak the same thing and eliminate division among them to use their faith to come into such unity that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind.Isn't this our great need today.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#474168 Jan 2, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Corinth was a melting pot of the various socio-economic groups in the Roman Empire and this city was as racially divided as any of in this empire if not more.People receiving Christ don't always allow Him to raise above their social or racial prejudices.This was especially true in Corinth and became such a problem to Paul that he spent more time teaching on the Unity of Christians than in any of his other writtings.Here he beseeches the brethren invoking the Name of Jesus their newly found Lord to agree to speak the same thing and eliminate division among them to use their faith to come into such unity that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind.Isn't this our great need today.
Well I made four post of Paul and is no reason to take it any futher this is based upon what I am reading in other post.I have choosen to look for the good in Paul and all that he done for mankind.Lastly will say could one of us done his walk he made.
I think not,it is just way too easy to judge Gods work in another.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#474169 Jan 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't add a thing
As usual in these types of conversations you ignored everything I asked and ignored all the scripture
If God wants all men to be saved and nothing we do matters on who he will save despite hundreds of verses to support that it does matter, that we must repent, have faith, obey, then please explain why all men are not saved?
Is God not capable of saving everyone even though he wants all to be saved? Please answer the question
Thank you
First off your foundation cornerstone is totally false, God does not want all men to be saved. He wants all His elect to be saved.He says in another way, that He is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. He's speaking of His chosen [ elect ]. Christ did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him, and that He would not lose one of them, but save all His people [ sheep ].

God is certainly capable of saving the world, but He made vessels of mercy as well as vessels of wrath. All deserve death because we are all guilty and should receive the penalty, but God had chosen some to have mercy upon and paid for their sins by the sacrifice of His own life. If Christ died for all men without distinction, then all men would be saved. But He didn't.

Finally, man's will or desire, has absolutely NO bearing on whether or not God will save him. The choice is GOD'S not man's.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#474170 Jan 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it is up to God who will be saved. And he tells us who he will save and why
Why would God call those he had no intention of saving?
You're right. He did tell us who would be saved and why,
All that the Father gives to Me SHALL come to me... John 6:37
Many are called BUT few are chosen [Those that were given to Christ ]Those that are called or invited won't come, because no man seeks God [Romans 3:11 ], therefore only the chosen are left to save. Simple isn't it?
Hard to swallow that God will have mercy on whom He chooses and leaves the rest to live out their time and in the end perish ?
A test of man's pride.
Learn the basics first, no more confusing the issues.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474171 Jan 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have some type of learning disability? How many times does it have to be said man can't save himself? And when we do the good works Christ prepared for us in advance to do it is because we are allowing him to work through us. Yet you feel you don't have to do those works even though Paul tells you that because you don't originally believe what Jesus taught applies to you
YOU are the one who believes the teachings of Jesus Christ do not apply to us. And you are claiming those that believe his teachings and believe him that they have to be obedient, which they do when they allow him to work through them, and he says do that and He promises He will save us is actually man thinking he can work his way to salvation?
YOU cant seem to take the FOCUS off YOURSELF and WHAT YOU are doing all the time. You Keep harping on obeying the teachings of Jesus, Yet, you dont even understand WHAT kind of obedience GOD was refering to. Yes, You believe IN Jesus and His teaching, but DO you BELIEVE WHAT He accomplished for YOU? The obedience from the HEART Skom..Do you understand WHAT that is? You dont seem to grasp nor understand WHAT His death AND burial AND ressurection was all about. Read up on how HE Justified YOU...How HE made YOU righteous in the eyes of God AND HOW He is Sanctifying YOU...Well He did BUT YOU have to RECEIVE those gifts THROUGH Obedience OF FAITH..YOU ..Then we can talk more. I lived the Christian Life that you are preaching and that kind of belief may seem right to a mere human..Gods thoughts and ways are NOT our thoughts OR ways. If it means that we had to forsake all the religious teaching that we have been taught from the pulpit all our lives to learn the TRUTH then thats what we should do..If you dont see that the bible seems to be a bit contradictive, you are confused..God doesnt contradict His own words, so why is there a sudden change in the scriptures? Looking into those things will open your eyes and allow you to come to the same conclusion that most Christians who understand Grace..has finally found...JESUS PAID IT ALL FOR US..Jesus + nothing = EVERYTHING..Isnt Jesus enough for you?

“squuuze me”

Since: Feb 09

Florida, USA

#474172 Jan 2, 2013
reggieboy2013 wrote:
<quoted text>
First off your foundation cornerstone is totally false, God does not want all men to be saved. He wants all His elect to be saved.He says in another way, that He is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. He's speaking of His chosen [ elect ]. Christ did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him, and that He would not lose one of them, but save all His people [ sheep ].
God is certainly capable of saving the world, but He made vessels of mercy as well as vessels of wrath. All deserve death because we are all guilty and should receive the penalty, but God had chosen some to have mercy upon and paid for their sins by the sacrifice of His own life. If Christ died for all men without distinction, then all men would be saved. But He didn't.
Finally, man's will or desire, has absolutely NO bearing on whether or not God will save him. The choice is GOD'S not man's.
So some He means to save while the rest are fodder for the wolves ...I sure am glad I don't follow that God.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#474173 Jan 2, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Which ones would that be ?
the Gospel Paul preached is the Holy scriptures. Christ by His spirit opened up the scriptures to Paul, which really was the old testament scriptures, plus direct revelation from God , which God is no longer doing once the bible was completed.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474174 Jan 2, 2013
sanctify

late 14c., seintefie "to consecrate," from O.Fr. saintifier (12c.), "to make holy," from sanctus "holy" (see saint)+ root of facere "to make" (see factitious). Form altered to conform with Latin. Meaning "to render holy"


sanc·ti·fy/&#712;sæ&#3 31;k&#8201;t&#601; &#716;fa&#618;/ Show Spelled [sangk-tuh-fahy] Show IPA
verb (used with object), sanc·ti·fied, sanc·ti·fy·ing.
1. to make holy; set apart as sacred; consecrate.

Hebrews 2:11..For both HE (Jesus) that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified ( Believers)are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 10:10..By this Will( Gods Will) we have been "Sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" ONCE for ALL.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Its JESUS that does the cleansing..Its Jesus that SANCTIFIES US..

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#474175 Jan 2, 2013
hick-up wrote:
<quoted text>
So some He means to save while the rest are fodder for the wolves ...I sure am glad I don't follow that God.
The truth is not always pretty. People like everything pretty and nice, like their God. They want a God who agrees with their thoughts, and overlooks their rebellion against His law, because they are nice people- He just loves them all, just the way they are, right?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474176 Jan 2, 2013
Justification_(theology)

www.reference.com/browse/Justification_%28the...

In Christian theology, justification is God's act of declaring or making a sinner righteous before God. Justification, from the Greek &#948;&#953;&#954; &#945;&#953;&#972; &#969; (dikaio&#333;), to declare/make.

Romans 5:1..Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474178 Jan 2, 2013
Knowing and believing that all of our sins (past, present, and future) have been completely forgiven through the blood of the Lamb is the doorway through which every child of God must walk before he can begin to truly understand the amazing grace of God. Trying to teach a Christian that he has a new identity in Christ, that the Holy Spirit now actually lives in him, and that his Heavenly Father loves and accepts him unconditionally will make little sense without him first believing that the sin issue between himself and God is over.

Perhaps no other aspect of our salvation in Christ has been so confusing, paralyzing, and even divisive within the body of Christ as the forgiveness of our sins. How tragic that one of the most glorious and foundational truths of the gospel has deteriorated into a perplexing doctrine that many Christians would prefer to argue was an incomplete work of our Savior rather than one that is actually "finished" (John 19:30).

http://www.forgivenforever.org/forgiven_forev...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474180 Jan 2, 2013
Why the confusion on something so elementary and crucial to our salvation? Your enemy, the father of lies, does not want you to know and believe that you have been forgiven, once-and-for-all. Since he cannot alter your eternal destiny if you are in Christ, then he will do all he can to deceive you into thinking that your behavior is to be the primary focus of your life.

Some Christians seem to think that the key to experiencing the "abundant life" that Jesus promised is to "keep short accounts with God." Let’s wake-up, Church! The last thing that Satan wants is for you experience the freedom you now have in Christ (Gal. 5:1) through setting "your mind on the things above" where "your life is hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:2-3).

You see, the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10) knows that if you believe the truth that your sins have actually been "removed" by God, "as far as the east is from the west" (Psalm 103:12), you will begin to shift your attention off of yourself and onto your blessed Redeemer! The result? The supernatural, miraculous life of Christ will be expressed through you, bringing glory to God and producing the righteous behavior your new heart longs to display.

Many teachers today tell their listeners that the sinner can come to God just as they are and receive forgiveness of sins (salvation is much more than just getting forgiven). But just as quickly as the sinner responds to Christ by faith and is saved, they are told to make sure they keep all their sins confessed so they will stay forgiven! Huh?

http://www.forgivenforever.org/forgiven_forev...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474181 Jan 2, 2013
If He has saved you, then "by His doing you are in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:30). Why is that important to know? Because, "in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" (Eph. 1:7). Is our having forgiveness based upon our confessing, asking, pleading with God? No, we have forgiveness (now and forever!) "according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7). His grace really is amazing!

But didn’t Jesus teach that we would only be forgiven if we made sure we forgave others (Matt. 6:14-15)? He sure did. At the perfect time in all of history, with the old covenant still in effect, "God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law" (Gal. 4:4-5). How was God going to redeem those who were under the Law? By coming down to earth Himself to show man and teach man that "by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight" (Rom. 3:20). Jesus’ teachings took the Law to a whole new level…impossibly unachievable! He took the Law past the realm of external performance to the realm of the heart to reveal the wickedness and hopelessness of all men. Why? So that they would come to Him for life (John 6:33; 8:24; 14:6)! Do you ever struggle with unforgiveness toward others? Then just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day, friend, you need the Savior!

Through His once-and-for-all sacrifice on the Cross almost 2,000 years ago, we have been forgiven (Col. 3:13). Unlike the old covenant sacrifices, Jesus’ blood did not atone or cover our sins…He took them away (John 1:29; Heb. 9:26). There will not be a future payment (Heb. 10:12). He will not, and does not, get up on the Cross again and again to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (Heb. 10:10, 18; 1 John 2:2). When He said, "It is finished," He meant it!
http://www.forgivenforever.org/forgiven_forev...

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#474182 Jan 2, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you say Drew has a "somewhat knowledge of Christ"?
Now that's hilarious!!!
Newsflash Lawest. If you ask all the Christians that post in here they will tell you that Drew has a knowledge of Christ that you don't even come close to.
Your overblown ego has taken control of you Lawest!!!
Yes Apples that IS hilarious, but for a very different, when you say " all the christians that post in here"..........that's just further confirmation that I am on the correct side of Christ, think you much.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474185 Jan 2, 2013
Hebrews 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember NO MORE.

Thats WHAT Jesus did for Us..Thats OUR LORD..All the Praise, Glory and Honor goes to HIM..

Knowing ALL this should not make a person say..ooohhh boy..now I can do whatever I want?? That makes NO sense.If somebody thinks that way, they need Jesus

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#474186 Jan 2, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Yes Apples that IS hilarious, but for a very different, when you say " all the christians that post in here"..........that's just further confirmation that I am on the correct side of Christ, think you much.
Correct side of Christ should be on this side of the cross..

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