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“Love much, trust none”

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#473052
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
How could mere mortals like Duane or me twist the almighty Gods words? Thats my whole point. the creator of the universe..........I'm no match for that scoundrel..........
See thats that level playing field that I've been talking about. Surely the good lord god didnt leave a book behind that someone could poke holes through..........
Hmmm Apparently he did....... Why is the question? Free will dont have anything to do wid at..........
Excellent points.

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#473053
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
<<<<<<<Ro lls eyes!!!
Are you serious?
How dense are you Larry?
People try to twist what's written in God's Word all the time.
Look at Graces last post to g_o_d. She just got done pointing out just how badly g_o_d had twisted what Paul had said in God's Word.
And I say you are blinded by Satan and can't see that John perverted Genesis, Paul didn't know anything about Jesus and Christians know nothing of the religion of Jesus.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#473054
Dec 29, 2012
 

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I think it still kind of says what it's meant to, wording is just simpler, could that have been just to make it easier for people to read? Besides, it's not like we can't find originals (you know what I mean) anyway.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#473055
Dec 29, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFLMAO
That was perfect!
Thanks!
Lol...ta. One of Doc's many personas likes to call me a sock aho puppet....lol

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Since: Jul 11

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#473056
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
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There is a difference between works of law and good works
There is a difference between Mosaic Law and the commandments of Jesus Christ
The verses you quote from Galatians are talking about Mosaic Law. They in no way infer we no longer have to obey Christ. And you will see Jesus used the two greatest commandments to essentially cover the old law by the new command of law which would still allow one to fulfill it.
Romans 13
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments,“Do not commit adultery,”“Do not murder,”“Do not steal,”“Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule:“Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
One fulfills the law through love.
What do you think "CONTINUING DEBT" means?
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law
The Law vs Love is the debate between the Pharisees and the Saducees. The Saducees evolved into Rabbinical Judaism of which (it seems) Jesus was a participant.

It is much like the current US debate between a Democracy (popular election) and a Republic (Electoral College).

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#473057
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
...No matter how much you don't like the message, the message of the Bible is that believers are no longer controlled by sin, are given a way out of every temptation, and that no man born of God will continue to sin and those that deliberately keep sinning are no longer covered by the sacrifice...
Many are called but few are chosen. <smile>

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#473058
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
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Not fictional! Not only in book of Job! Btw, your pic is creepy :p
Why do you find a medieval depiction of God creepy ?

According to the religion of Jesus, the Book of Job is a non-historic allegorical tale. In other words, fictional. Like 'The Old Man and the Sea' or 'All Quiet on the Western Front'. Inspirational and spiritual but fictional none the less.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

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#473059
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Sin is a man made concept.
Concept? An idea only? What do you call murder then, if not a sin? Or do you just call it murder? And stealing or raping? Now, we have a group of things, what name would you give these group of things, if not sin?

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#473060
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
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Ignore my last post, I misread what you said. I checked John and I see what you mean, but wasn't it 5:7 that was left out? About the record in Heaven?
John added the Greek word Logos to Genesis. While the actual philosophical meaning of Logos makes sense, it something not a single Christian understands and altering Genesis is blasphemy according to the Bible itself.

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#473061
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
I think it still kind of says what it's meant to, wording is just simpler, could that have been just to make it easier for people to read? Besides, it's not like we can't find originals (you know what I mean) anyway.
Yes, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls which prove that the Christian Bible(s) is full of errors. Meanwhile the Hebrew Scriptures have remained all but unchanged in over 2000 years.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#473062
Dec 29, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you find a medieval depiction of God creepy ?
According to the religion of Jesus, the Book of Job is a non-historic allegorical tale. In other words, fictional. Like 'The Old Man and the Sea' or 'All Quiet on the Western Front'. Inspirational and spiritual but fictional none the less.
Sorry, I meant statnin wasn't fictional and that he wasn't only in the Book of Job.
I don't know, it looks like Conan or something close up but far off it looks like a hunching creature...:)

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#473063
Dec 29, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
The Law vs Love is the debate between the Pharisees and the Saducees. The Saducees evolved into Rabbinical Judaism of which (it seems) Jesus was a participant.
It is much like the current US debate between a Democracy (popular election) and a Republic (Electoral College).
I was reading an exchange when following up on a verse John posted about being set free. And what I found interesting is prior in the verse it Jesus says those who don't believe He is who He says will die in their sins and that isn't what caused the problem. It was when Jesus said a man who sins is a slave to sin and if they were really his disciples they would hold to his teachings (all that said not to sin btw) and the truth would set them free

John 8

31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said,“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33They answered him,“We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34Jesus replied,“I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

This exchange led to them trying to stone him!

People can take what they will from it but for me personally I found it telling.

(T) Peace

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#473064
Dec 29, 2012
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
John added the Greek word Logos to Genesis. While the actual philosophical meaning of Logos makes sense, it something not a single Christian understands and altering Genesis is blasphemy according to the Bible itself.
Well, he may have to pay for that one day..

Since: Mar 09

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#473065
Dec 29, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
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Many are called but few are chosen. <smile>
I understand people are not advocating sin but IMO even excusing it is a form of passive condoning. When verses meant for unbelievers on why they need Christ for salvation are taken instead to essentially tell people it is only human to sin I have a real problem with that

I am not going to pretend I don't sin but the truth is there is no excuse to sin, no justification to sin, and no reason if someone really put their mind to it that they would necessarily have to continue sinning. Especially in light of the fact we are no longer under Mosaic Law but are given the two greatest commandments

I don't believe nobody is capable of sticking to loving their neighbor and loving God. It may not be a high percentage but with God's help and knowing the truth I find it hard to believe that nobody can do it. But in any event what I think is possible doesn't matter. It was most certainly what Christ expected of us, taught us to do, and wanted us to do.

Now was this more of a goal than an expectation? Only Christ knows that. But obviously when teaching people you teach them wrong is wrong all the time. You don't tell them, well it is only natural if you sin once in a while. So the message was clear.

And if obedience was guaranteed we would never sin again. I doubt anybody can tell me any sins they had no choice but to commit. And I doubt anyone was stealing bread to feed a starving family. When we sin we basically do so because we give in to the flesh. We had a choice. Now I think Jesus told us things like we must forgive others for the father to forgive us because he knew what the deal was. But no question the benchmark we are to always be striving for is to be perfect like the father is perfect

To me this in a way isn't even about OSAS. It should be agreed upon by everyone the message was we aren't supposed to sin any more. But because this whole argument has come up about how obedience is a consequence of belief not a choice despite glaring evidence to the contrary as we continue to sin, it has now caused people to actually start to take the approach that Jesus didn't really think we were capable of not sinning or that the message for believers is all men sin and fall short instead of what is clear in John that the message is no man born of God will continue to sin

If we start moving away from anything but Jesus taught us we are not supposed to sin any more then IMHO something is very wrong. Whether there is recourse or what most men can or will do or if the sins are automatically forgiven when we do are totally different conversations. But Jesus taught we are not to sin any more. To me, that just simply is not in dispute

(T) Peace

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#473066
Dec 29, 2012
 

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"Being a slave to sin"

That is the problem with sin. "Lies beget more lies" in a sense.

There was a medieval Christian story of a man whose glutony in the form of drinking lead him to rape his mother and murder his father.

It was used to show how what may appear to be a "small sin" leads to greater ones.

"half measures avail us nothing" comes to mind.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I was reading an exchange when following up on a verse John posted about being set free. And what I found interesting is prior in the verse it Jesus says those who don't believe He is who He says will die in their sins and that isn't what caused the problem. It was when Jesus said a man who sins is a slave to sin and if they were really his disciples they would hold to his teachings (all that said not to sin btw) and the truth would set them free
John 8
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said,“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33They answered him,“We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34Jesus replied,“I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
This exchange led to them trying to stone him!
People can take what they will from it but for me personally I found it telling.
(T) Peace

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#473067
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
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I understand people are not advocating sin but IMO even excusing it is a form of passive condoning. When verses meant for unbelievers on why they need Christ for salvation are taken instead to essentially tell people it is only human to sin I have a real problem with that
I am not going to pretend I don't sin but the truth is there is no excuse to sin, no justification to sin, and no reason if someone really put their mind to it that they would necessarily have to continue sinning. Especially in light of the fact we are no longer under Mosaic Law but are given the two greatest commandments
I don't believe nobody is capable of sticking to loving their neighbor and loving God. It may not be a high percentage but with God's help and knowing the truth I find it hard to believe that nobody can do it. But in any event what I think is possible doesn't matter. It was most certainly what Christ expected of us, taught us to do, and wanted us to do.
Now was this more of a goal than an expectation? Only Christ knows that. But obviously when teaching people you teach them wrong is wrong all the time. You don't tell them, well it is only natural if you sin once in a while. So the message was clear.
And if obedience was guaranteed we would never sin again. I doubt anybody can tell me any sins they had no choice but to commit. And I doubt anyone was stealing bread to feed a starving family. When we sin we basically do so because we give in to the flesh. We had a choice. Now I think Jesus told us things like we must forgive others for the father to forgive us because he knew what the deal was. But no question the benchmark we are to always be striving for is to be perfect like the father is perfect
To me this in a way isn't even about OSAS. It should be agreed upon by everyone the message was we aren't supposed to sin any more. But because this whole argument has come up about how obedience is a consequence of belief not a choice despite glaring evidence to the contrary as we continue to sin, it has now caused people to actually start to take the approach that Jesus didn't really think we were capable of not sinning or that the message for believers is all men sin and fall short instead of what is clear in John that the message is no man born of God will continue to sin
If we start moving away from anything but Jesus taught us we are not supposed to sin any more then IMHO something is very wrong. Whether there is recourse or what most men can or will do or if the sins are automatically forgiven when we do are totally different conversations. But Jesus taught we are not to sin any more. To me, that just simply is not in dispute
(T) Peace
Although I find it challenging to stop myself from sinning more often than I'd like, I agree with everything you just said. Thanks for sharing <3

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Since: Jul 11

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#473068
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
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Well, he may have to pay for that one day..
Maybe not.

I am not judging his soul, just his words.

He may have been just trying to explain Genesis in Greek terms.

The Logos with God before creation is, in Greek philosophy, simply stating that the concept (logos) of creation was with God from the begining.
In common parlance:

God had an idea to create the world.

An idea always precedes an intelligen act.

The word Logos does not mean Jesus regardless of the interpretation of Christianity. Just another erroneous twisting of the word IMHO.

One might as well claim the Red Ridinghood's basket is Ben Franklin.

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Since: Jul 11

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#473069
Dec 29, 2012
 

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Agreed.

It is like driving a car. We know we should obey the laws but sometimes don't. We are still speeding even if we don't get caught. If there were no enforcement of traffic laws then people would follow them even less. If the laws were abandoned completely then there would be a pile of corpses on the highways.

We can't be perfect but we can still strive for progress in that direction.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand people are not advocating sin but IMO even excusing it is a form of passive condoning. When verses meant for unbelievers on why they need Christ for salvation are taken instead to essentially tell people it is only human to sin I have a real problem with that
I am not going to pretend I don't sin but the truth is there is no excuse to sin, no justification to sin, and no reason if someone really put their mind to it that they would necessarily have to continue sinning. Especially in light of the fact we are no longer under Mosaic Law but are given the two greatest commandments
I don't believe nobody is capable of sticking to loving their neighbor and loving God. It may not be a high percentage but with God's help and knowing the truth I find it hard to believe that nobody can do it. But in any event what I think is possible doesn't matter. It was most certainly what Christ expected of us, taught us to do, and wanted us to do.
Now was this more of a goal than an expectation? Only Christ knows that. But obviously when teaching people you teach them wrong is wrong all the time. You don't tell them, well it is only natural if you sin once in a while. So the message was clear.
And if obedience was guaranteed we would never sin again. I doubt anybody can tell me any sins they had no choice but to commit. And I doubt anyone was stealing bread to feed a starving family. When we sin we basically do so because we give in to the flesh. We had a choice. Now I think Jesus told us things like we must forgive others for the father to forgive us because he knew what the deal was. But no question the benchmark we are to always be striving for is to be perfect like the father is perfect
To me this in a way isn't even about OSAS. It should be agreed upon by everyone the message was we aren't supposed to sin any more. But because this whole argument has come up about how obedience is a consequence of belief not a choice despite glaring evidence to the contrary as we continue to sin, it has now caused people to actually start to take the approach that Jesus didn't really think we were capable of not sinning or that the message for believers is all men sin and fall short instead of what is clear in John that the message is no man born of God will continue to sin
If we start moving away from anything but Jesus taught us we are not supposed to sin any more then IMHO something is very wrong. Whether there is recourse or what most men can or will do or if the sins are automatically forgiven when we do are totally different conversations. But Jesus taught we are not to sin any more. To me, that just simply is not in dispute
(T) Peace

“Love much, trust none”

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#473070
Dec 29, 2012
 

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A man once asked his Rabbi, "Do I have to stop sinning to be a good person ?"

The Rabbi smiled and said, "When you become good person you won't want to sin."

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
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Although I find it challenging to stop myself from sinning more often than I'd like, I agree with everything you just said. Thanks for sharing <3
Thanks

And believe me, I sin as much as the next guy

But it certainly isn't going to help our walk and progress to take the mindset that it is impossible not to sin and everybody does it and we need to decide sinning doesn't affect our righteousness. IMO that is the argument I would use if I was trying to talk myself into sinning, not out of it.

The goal should be to be sinless

I know people will say that is their goal as well. But how can it be if they don't even think it is possible?

I have found two truisms in life in regards to behavior and those are

1) When we raise expectations, we raise results

2) The more we do the right thing, the easier it becomes

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting anyone wants to sin. I am just saying if the two choices are to think:

1) The best I can hope for is to sin less

or

2) I want to be perfect like the father is perfect, just like Jesus told me to be

I just think the second one is probably going to yield better results more times than not

JMO

(T) Peace

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