“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470105 Dec 10, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly.
"Withdrawals." That's funny.
.
...kinda like a teenager who lost his cellphone...

...kinda like Dr. Reality without unsaved people to minister to...

...kinda like Pee Wee Herman who lost his bicycle...

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470106 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
So how are OUR sins any different? I DO NOT condone homosexual realtionships, However, I dont judge people who SIN differently than I DO...and neither should you..God Bless
Why don't you condone homosexual relationships?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#470107 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Jesus: "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of A GREATER SIN." jn 19:11
2. Apostle John: "If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that." I Jn 5:16
3. Prophet Ezekiel: Ez 8:12-15
4. Apostle Paul: Men will go from bad to worse... Jesus: Men will wax worse and worse and the love of many will grow cold.
1- Hath the greater sin - It is a sin in thee to condemn me, while thou art convinced in thy conscience that I am innocent: but the Jews who delivered me to thee, and Judas who delivered me to the Jews, have the greater crime to answer for. Thy ignorance in some measure excuses thee; but the rage and malice of the Jews put them at present out of the reach of mercy.

2- You have a good point on that one...so I will honestly say..I dont know!!

3- Adulterous wife, who receives strangers instead of her husband" (Ez 16:5-8, 12-15, 30-32).The yearly lamenting for Tammuz was attended with infamous practices; and the worshippers of the sun here described, are supposed to have been priests. The Lord appeals to the prophet concerning the heinousness of the crime; and lo, they put the branch to their nose, denoting some custom used by idolaters in honour of the idols they served...Besides, This was BEFORE the Cross..

4-The love of many shall wax cold - By reason of these trials and persecutions from without, and those apostasies and false prophets from within, the love of many to Christ and his doctrine, and to one another, shall grow cold. Some openly deserting the faith, as Matthew 24:10; others corrupting it, as Matthew 24:11; and others growing indifferent about it, Matthew 24:12. Even at this early period there seems to have been a very considerable defection in several Christian Churches..

Sorry my brother, but this doesn't prove your point..sin is sin is sin..EXCEPCT...UNBELIEF.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#470108 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you condone homosexual relationships?
WHY? Because I know it's not natural. It should be Man with women. Fornication is also sex before marriage and fornication is lined up with evil thoughts, hate, theft and a lie..Even little white lies and such things that We ALL do. I simply try to LOVE all people and let God be their judge. If we continue to purposely point out Homosexuals and not those who are shacking up, cheating on their taxes or even calling in to work and claiming to be sick when they are not, Then what are we showing them? We are not showing them "GOD" and His LOVE. We are showing them OUR biased opinion. Have a blessed night..Love ya brother
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470109 Dec 10, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes...I am well aware of the story about the "doubting Thomas".
I stopped because I did not want to offend anyone.
Too often people to espouse their own beliefs put others down for theirs.
This has all turned in to..."I am right and you are wrong"..."I am a better Christian than you"..."I am being guided by the Holy Spirit and you are not"...etc etc.
Each side here has backed up why they believe as they do with scripture...each believing that they have found the answer.
What I see are friendships being strained...
IMO
It seems we all know the doubting Thomas character, and we have
all been guilty of being him at sometime or another. I think this is good in a lot of ways, though it could be carried too far in life to always doubt.

I haven't seen any 'I am right and you are wrong' attitudes in here
yet or the 'I am a better Christian than you' attitude. I think of it this way, I could learn something from these discussions and could be wrong in my thinking, also. The main thing we do have in common is, we all believe Jesus died for us and we are saved.

God shows no favoritisms to anyone, we are all treated the same, so if anyone feels they are better than their fellow man, whether be another Christian, or not a Christian, they are not. Christians just know that they will have everlasting life, and want so bad for others that have not accepted Jesus, to do so.

If friendships on here is strained, it would be because they are letting it happen, friends should not stress each other, especially
speaking of God, God should always be 'comforting. God Bless

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470110 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
1- Hath the greater sin - It is a sin in thee to condemn me, while thou art convinced in thy conscience that I am innocent: but the Jews who delivered me to thee, and Judas who delivered me to the Jews, have the greater crime to answer for. Thy ignorance in some measure excuses thee; but the rage and malice of the Jews put them at present out of the reach of mercy.
2- You have a good point on that one...so I will honestly say..I dont know!!
3- Adulterous wife, who receives strangers instead of her husband" (Ez 16:5-8, 12-15, 30-32).The yearly lamenting for Tammuz was attended with infamous practices; and the worshippers of the sun here described, are supposed to have been priests. The Lord appeals to the prophet concerning the heinousness of the crime; and lo, they put the branch to their nose, denoting some custom used by idolaters in honour of the idols they served...Besides, This was BEFORE the Cross..
4-The love of many shall wax cold - By reason of these trials and persecutions from without, and those apostasies and false prophets from within, the love of many to Christ and his doctrine, and to one another, shall grow cold. Some openly deserting the faith, as Matthew 24:10; others corrupting it, as Matthew 24:11; and others growing indifferent about it, Matthew 24:12. Even at this early period there seems to have been a very considerable defection in several Christian Churches..
Sorry my brother, but this doesn't prove your point..sin is sin is sin..EXCEPCT...UNBELIEF.
1. Grace, thanks for the response. I have to respectfully disagree with you on this though. Greater Crime, Greater Sin... same thing in this passage

2. We can talk about it later... smile.

3. The Scriptures from Ezekiel point to greater abominations. Greater being the key word in those scriptures. Remember that we are talking about greater sins. When one say greater abominations it is the same thing.

4. In the KJV, when it says 'shall wax worse & worse'... it means from bad to worse.

I've seen that you've gave me commentary answers.... sin is sin... but I'm trying to point out that not all sins are equal. Also, depends on the motive of the person. Eve was tricked, Adam wasn't tricked for example. That is why Adam had the greater sin than his wife even though she sinned first... also why sin entered the world through Adam.

I'm glad that you are meeting the challenge (as in friendly sparring) Here's some others... which peoples had the greater sin:

1. Jesus: "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you." Mt 11:21-22

2. Jesus: "And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.d If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.” verses 23-24 of same chptr in Mt.

3. Jesus: "That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows." Luke 12:47-48

4. Jesus: "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." Luke 12:10

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470111 Dec 10, 2012
@ Grace Walker: Edit for last post - In the verses provided, which peoples had the greater sin?

No commentary answers please..

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470112 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
WHY? Because I know it's not natural. It should be Man with women. Fornication is also sex before marriage and fornication is lined up with evil thoughts, hate, theft and a lie..Even little white lies and such things that We ALL do. I simply try to LOVE all people and let God be their judge. If we continue to purposely point out Homosexuals and not those who are shacking up, cheating on their taxes or even calling in to work and claiming to be sick when they are not, Then what are we showing them? We are not showing them "GOD" and His LOVE. We are showing them OUR biased opinion. Have a blessed night..Love ya brother
Now, I'm just pickin' on ya on this one so don't take offence okaY?

Now when you say that homosexual relationships are not natural... who are you to say that it's not natural? What's not natural about it? Who made you a judge to say whether it is natural or unnatural? Would you vote against gay marriage or just be neutral? Haven't you judged already in your heart against gay people who just want to love the person that they love?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#470113 Dec 10, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Then, let's begin.
Obviously, you're going to have to initiate the volley.....
OK. Let's start with a simple one:

Paul says:

"For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living." Romams 14:9

Jesus says:

"He is not God of the dead, but of the living" Luke 20:38

AND God of the dead vs NOT God of the dead. > Logical Contradiction; AND function incompatible with NOT function.
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470114 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Welp, I've said that I would get back with you on this. Yes it is true that we will always be our parents' child (by blood as you say).. even if we (by our own choosing) wander off from their instructions and find ourselves in a place they have warned us about.
<quoted text>Let's say a person who lived the homosexual lifestyle receives Christ. They are following Christ for years... they are fine with no wish to be with the opposite sex ever again. Later on, they see an old flame and are tempted and tintillated. Through poor choices they find themselves back into homosexuality, they find scriptures condoning their lifestyle and continue to live in that situation, get married to their life-partner. You mean to tell me that - that person was never saved to begin with because they fell into temptation? Shouldn't once saved always saved keep them from falling from grace? Jesus, friend of sinners right?
A tough little question there, but here goes a shot at it.

You said, that he followed Christ for years, this could be a few years, a couple years, or would you say for many years? And was he a 'born again Christian'?

If it was a few years (about 3 is a few) he is still a child in Christ, and would be easily tempted yet, same with a couple of years.

If he was a mature true 'Born again Christian'(many years) he would not fall for the temptation, if the temptation did exist to him, he would shun it,(turn the other cheek), knowing that after many years of reading the Bible and talking with God, that homosexuality is called an abomination to God. Not too many sins were called 'abomination, or any descriptive words like that, they were just called SINS, so it must have been something God very much detested.

Course, we do not know that persons heart, only God does and only God would know how to handle this.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#470115 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
....Sorry my brother, but this doesn't prove your point..sin is sin is sin..EXCEPCT...UNBELIEF.
That depends on your interpretation of 1. Blasphe,y and 2. Holy Spirit.

Don't ask what did the 300 AD Roman Church say, rather ask what did that mean to a righteous Jew in 30 AD.

Here's a hint, look up Ruach Ha'Kodesh in the Jewish Encyclopedia.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#470116 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
WHY? Because I know it's not natural....
Actually it IS quite natural. So is murder and adultery.

Sitting at a computer, driving a car, using electricity, ad indinitum is NOT natural.

You may have a case but your terminology is lacking.
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470117 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>There is a Pastor named Carlton Pierson. I believe he went to Oral Roberts University and he isn't gay btw, but he ministers to homosexuals and has a gay-accepting church.(By gay-accepting church, by that I mean they believe that God condones homosexuality and Carlton also believes that there is no such thing as hell... le le believes this also, now that I think about it... it's called neo-saduceeism)
So, based on the Once Saved Always Saved gospel, Do you believe that it's okay for these gays to continue as they were? Jesus, friend of sinners btw... do you also believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =JphY46IjQEsXX
First off, God doesn't condone homosexuality.

Do I believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here do? Do you?

Asking me , no, I would not. But , I do believe that Jesus would want us ,as Christians to go to the sinners and spread the word of Christ, as He most certainly did, go into the Sinner's house.

A sexual sins (adultry,prostitutes, gays, lesbian, pedophiles, cross dresser, etc, etc) I feel has to be handled straight from God , we have turn that over to God.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#470118 Dec 10, 2012
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation 5:1&7&9
Book with seven seals
Revelation 6:1-14
Revelation 6:15-17
Revelation 8:1
Opening seals
Revelation 8:2
See Revelation 8&9 and 11:14-19
See Jeremiah 4:19&20
See Joel 2:1-11
Trumpets
Revelation 8:7-13
Revelation 9:1-3
See Revelation 8:10&11
Revelation 9:4&11
Revelation 9:5&12-16
One by one
Revelation 11:14
Revelation 10:7
See Ephesians 3:3-6
See Galatians 1:11&12
Revelation 11:15-18
See Daniel 12:1
See(battle of Armageddon spoken of)Revelation 16
Revelation 11:19
See Ecclesiastes 12:13&14
See Romans 2:12
See James 2:8-12
See Revelation 16:17&18
God finished

See Daniel 11:40-45
See Revelation 9
See Revelation 16:12
See Isaiah 8:7
See Revelation 17:15
Daniel 11:44&45
Revelation 16:12-16
Daniel 12:1&2
See Daniel 11:2-4,7,14,20,21,12:1
See Jude 9
See Thessalonians 4:16
See John 5:25
See Luke 19:11-15
See Revelation 11:15
See Revelation 3:5 and 20:12
1 Thessalonians 5:2&3
Eastern Question

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#470119 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
`{/QUOTE]Before I begin, I'm going to include the link to the site you retrieved this information from.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-leave...

[QUOTE who="Grace Walker"]We ALL fall into some sort of temptation. You are refering to a homosexual, However, Sin is sin and I dont believe God has a sliding scale from 1 to 10...
1John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Grace Walker wrote:
If a TRUE Believer has been born again, been baptized with the Holy Spirit, then The Holy Spirit will never leave a true believer. EVER!! For example, Romans 8:9
Romans 8:9 does not insinuate as much.
Grace Walker wrote:
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,“who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption.
And a remarkable manifestation of this sealing is what?

2Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The latter is instruction expected to be performed by each individual.

And as to this "guarantee," this does not indicate that our being saved is guaranteed. Rather, this "guarantee" is a pledge, provided as evidence of a coming kingdom, as promised and to encourage faith and obedience.
Grace Walker wrote:
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit”(1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit”(Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”(1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
I agree. BUT, "Believer" is the key word, here.

As James proved, faith produces obedience while obedience serves as evidence of our faith. If we decide to return to willful sin without repenting, this proves a lack of faith which means, all in all, we now doubt, or no longer believe.
Grace Walker wrote:
We didn't SAVE Ourselves...Jesus bought and paid for our sins. HE Bacame Sin SO WE could become righteous..You will have to take it up with Jesus.. He SAVED US...and yes, we ALL still fall into sin...some sins we don't even know about..So how are OUR sins any different? I DO NOT condone homosexual realtionships, However, I dont judge people who SIN differently than I DO...and neither should you..God Bless
The term "judge," according to scriptures, possesses two definitions. One is "to condemn," while the other, "to discern between righteousness and unrighteousness." We are allowed to discern, but not to condemn. You'll notice that it's written, at Matthew 7:5, "..FIRST cast out the beam out of thine own eye; AND THEN shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Our anointed Savior wasn't prohibiting judging, but hypocrisy.

Also, three verdicts exist to judging. Innocent, not guilty, and guilty.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470120 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
A tough little question there, but here goes a shot at it.
You said, that he followed Christ for years, this could be a few years, a couple years, or would you say for many years? And was he a 'born again Christian'? If it was a few years (about 3 is a few) he is still a child in Christ, and would be easily tempted yet, same with a couple of years.
If he was a mature true 'Born again Christian'(many years) he would not fall for the temptation, if the temptation did exist to him, he would shun it,(turn the other cheek), knowing that after many years of reading the Bible and talking with God, that homosexuality is called an abomination to God. Not too many sins were called 'abomination, or any descriptive words like that, they were just called SINS, so it must have been something God very much detested.
Let's say He was born again, sanctified and filled with Holy Ghost for 15-20 years... and let's say a Pastor of a large, mega-church who preached against homosexuality all 'dem years by saying, "Love the homosexual, hate the sin." ... and many people got saved and water baptized... and the church is running efficiently.
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Course, we do not know that persons heart, only God does and only God would know how to handle this.
Remember, he's saved now. Does once saved always saved still continue to be applied in this circumstance? He's still a brother in the Lord, right? Even though he is married to a person of the same sex. What say you?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#470121 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
`
Before I begin, I'm going to include the link to the site you retrieved this information from.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-leave...
Grace Walker wrote:
We ALL fall into some sort of temptation. You are refering to a homosexual, However, Sin is sin and I dont believe God has a sliding scale from 1 to 10...
1John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Grace Walker wrote:
If a TRUE Believer has been born again, been baptized with the Holy Spirit, then The Holy Spirit will never leave a true believer. EVER!! For example, Romans 8:9
Romans 8:9 does not insinuate as much.
Grace Walker wrote:
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,“who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption.
And a remarkable manifestation of this sealing is what?

2Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The latter is instruction expected to be performed by each individual.

And as to this "guarantee," this does not indicate that our being saved is guaranteed. Rather, this "guarantee" is a pledge, provided as evidence of a coming kingdom, as promised and to encourage faith and obedience.
Grace Walker wrote:
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit”(1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit”(Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”(1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
I agree. BUT, "Believer" is the key word, here.

As James proved, faith produces obedience while obedience serves as evidence of our faith. If we decide to return to willful sin without repenting, this proves a lack of faith which means, all in all, we now doubt, or no longer believe.
Grace Walker wrote:
We didn't SAVE Ourselves...Jesus bought and paid for our sins. HE Bacame Sin SO WE could become righteous..You will have to take it up with Jesus.. He SAVED US...and yes, we ALL still fall into sin...some sins we don't even know about..So how are OUR sins any different? I DO NOT condone homosexual realtionships, However, I dont judge people who SIN differently than I DO...and neither should you..God Bless
The term "judge," according to scriptures, possesses two definitions. One is "to condemn," while the other, "to discern between righteousness and unrighteousness." We are allowed to discern, but not to condemn. You'll notice that it's written, at Matthew 7:5, "..FIRST cast out the beam out of thine own eye; AND THEN shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Our anointed Savior wasn't prohibiting judging, but hypocrisy.

Also, three verdicts exist to judging. Innocent, not guilty, and guilty.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#470122 Dec 10, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That depends on your interpretation of 1. Blasphe,y and 2. Holy Spirit.
Don't ask what did the 300 AD Roman Church say, rather ask what did that mean to a righteous Jew in 30 AD.
Here's a hint, look up Ruach Ha'Kodesh in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Yes, that pesky 'reader/audience relevance' does tend to put a kink or two in many a theological treatise.

:)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#470123 Dec 10, 2012
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man become a living soul.Genesis 2:7

And the rib of which the Lord God had taken from man,made he a woman and brought unto man.
Genesis 2:22

Therefore shall man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto him a wife and they shall be one flesh.Genesis 2:24

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470124 Dec 10, 2012
@ SimplyPut
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Let's say He was born again, sanctified and filled with Holy Ghost for 15-20 years... and let's say a Pastor of a large, mega-church who preached against homosexuality all 'dem years by saying, "Love the homosexual, hate the sin." ... and many people got saved and water baptized... and the church is running efficiently.
<quoted text>Remember, he's saved now. Does once saved always saved still continue to be applied in this circumstance? He's still a brother in the Lord, right? Even though he is married to a person of the same sex. What say you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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