Why Should Jesus Love Me?
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470114 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Welp, I've said that I would get back with you on this. Yes it is true that we will always be our parents' child (by blood as you say).. even if we (by our own choosing) wander off from their instructions and find ourselves in a place they have warned us about.
<quoted text>Let's say a person who lived the homosexual lifestyle receives Christ. They are following Christ for years... they are fine with no wish to be with the opposite sex ever again. Later on, they see an old flame and are tempted and tintillated. Through poor choices they find themselves back into homosexuality, they find scriptures condoning their lifestyle and continue to live in that situation, get married to their life-partner. You mean to tell me that - that person was never saved to begin with because they fell into temptation? Shouldn't once saved always saved keep them from falling from grace? Jesus, friend of sinners right?
A tough little question there, but here goes a shot at it.

You said, that he followed Christ for years, this could be a few years, a couple years, or would you say for many years? And was he a 'born again Christian'?

If it was a few years (about 3 is a few) he is still a child in Christ, and would be easily tempted yet, same with a couple of years.

If he was a mature true 'Born again Christian'(many years) he would not fall for the temptation, if the temptation did exist to him, he would shun it,(turn the other cheek), knowing that after many years of reading the Bible and talking with God, that homosexuality is called an abomination to God. Not too many sins were called 'abomination, or any descriptive words like that, they were just called SINS, so it must have been something God very much detested.

Course, we do not know that persons heart, only God does and only God would know how to handle this.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#470115 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
....Sorry my brother, but this doesn't prove your point..sin is sin is sin..EXCEPCT...UNBELIEF.
That depends on your interpretation of 1. Blasphe,y and 2. Holy Spirit.

Don't ask what did the 300 AD Roman Church say, rather ask what did that mean to a righteous Jew in 30 AD.

Here's a hint, look up Ruach Ha'Kodesh in the Jewish Encyclopedia.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#470116 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
WHY? Because I know it's not natural....
Actually it IS quite natural. So is murder and adultery.

Sitting at a computer, driving a car, using electricity, ad indinitum is NOT natural.

You may have a case but your terminology is lacking.
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470117 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>There is a Pastor named Carlton Pierson. I believe he went to Oral Roberts University and he isn't gay btw, but he ministers to homosexuals and has a gay-accepting church.(By gay-accepting church, by that I mean they believe that God condones homosexuality and Carlton also believes that there is no such thing as hell... le le believes this also, now that I think about it... it's called neo-saduceeism)
So, based on the Once Saved Always Saved gospel, Do you believe that it's okay for these gays to continue as they were? Jesus, friend of sinners btw... do you also believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =JphY46IjQEsXX
First off, God doesn't condone homosexuality.

Do I believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here do? Do you?

Asking me , no, I would not. But , I do believe that Jesus would want us ,as Christians to go to the sinners and spread the word of Christ, as He most certainly did, go into the Sinner's house.

A sexual sins (adultry,prostitutes, gays, lesbian, pedophiles, cross dresser, etc, etc) I feel has to be handled straight from God , we have turn that over to God.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#470118 Dec 10, 2012
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation 5:1&7&9
Book with seven seals
Revelation 6:1-14
Revelation 6:15-17
Revelation 8:1
Opening seals
Revelation 8:2
See Revelation 8&9 and 11:14-19
See Jeremiah 4:19&20
See Joel 2:1-11
Trumpets
Revelation 8:7-13
Revelation 9:1-3
See Revelation 8:10&11
Revelation 9:4&11
Revelation 9:5&12-16
One by one
Revelation 11:14
Revelation 10:7
See Ephesians 3:3-6
See Galatians 1:11&12
Revelation 11:15-18
See Daniel 12:1
See(battle of Armageddon spoken of)Revelation 16
Revelation 11:19
See Ecclesiastes 12:13&14
See Romans 2:12
See James 2:8-12
See Revelation 16:17&18
God finished

See Daniel 11:40-45
See Revelation 9
See Revelation 16:12
See Isaiah 8:7
See Revelation 17:15
Daniel 11:44&45
Revelation 16:12-16
Daniel 12:1&2
See Daniel 11:2-4,7,14,20,21,12:1
See Jude 9
See Thessalonians 4:16
See John 5:25
See Luke 19:11-15
See Revelation 11:15
See Revelation 3:5 and 20:12
1 Thessalonians 5:2&3
Eastern Question

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#470119 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
`{/QUOTE]Before I begin, I'm going to include the link to the site you retrieved this information from.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-leave...

[QUOTE who="Grace Walker"]We ALL fall into some sort of temptation. You are refering to a homosexual, However, Sin is sin and I dont believe God has a sliding scale from 1 to 10...
1John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Grace Walker wrote:
If a TRUE Believer has been born again, been baptized with the Holy Spirit, then The Holy Spirit will never leave a true believer. EVER!! For example, Romans 8:9
Romans 8:9 does not insinuate as much.
Grace Walker wrote:
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,“who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption.
And a remarkable manifestation of this sealing is what?

2Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The latter is instruction expected to be performed by each individual.

And as to this "guarantee," this does not indicate that our being saved is guaranteed. Rather, this "guarantee" is a pledge, provided as evidence of a coming kingdom, as promised and to encourage faith and obedience.
Grace Walker wrote:
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit”(1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit”(Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”(1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
I agree. BUT, "Believer" is the key word, here.

As James proved, faith produces obedience while obedience serves as evidence of our faith. If we decide to return to willful sin without repenting, this proves a lack of faith which means, all in all, we now doubt, or no longer believe.
Grace Walker wrote:
We didn't SAVE Ourselves...Jesus bought and paid for our sins. HE Bacame Sin SO WE could become righteous..You will have to take it up with Jesus.. He SAVED US...and yes, we ALL still fall into sin...some sins we don't even know about..So how are OUR sins any different? I DO NOT condone homosexual realtionships, However, I dont judge people who SIN differently than I DO...and neither should you..God Bless
The term "judge," according to scriptures, possesses two definitions. One is "to condemn," while the other, "to discern between righteousness and unrighteousness." We are allowed to discern, but not to condemn. You'll notice that it's written, at Matthew 7:5, "..FIRST cast out the beam out of thine own eye; AND THEN shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Our anointed Savior wasn't prohibiting judging, but hypocrisy.

Also, three verdicts exist to judging. Innocent, not guilty, and guilty.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470120 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
A tough little question there, but here goes a shot at it.
You said, that he followed Christ for years, this could be a few years, a couple years, or would you say for many years? And was he a 'born again Christian'? If it was a few years (about 3 is a few) he is still a child in Christ, and would be easily tempted yet, same with a couple of years.
If he was a mature true 'Born again Christian'(many years) he would not fall for the temptation, if the temptation did exist to him, he would shun it,(turn the other cheek), knowing that after many years of reading the Bible and talking with God, that homosexuality is called an abomination to God. Not too many sins were called 'abomination, or any descriptive words like that, they were just called SINS, so it must have been something God very much detested.
Let's say He was born again, sanctified and filled with Holy Ghost for 15-20 years... and let's say a Pastor of a large, mega-church who preached against homosexuality all 'dem years by saying, "Love the homosexual, hate the sin." ... and many people got saved and water baptized... and the church is running efficiently.
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Course, we do not know that persons heart, only God does and only God would know how to handle this.
Remember, he's saved now. Does once saved always saved still continue to be applied in this circumstance? He's still a brother in the Lord, right? Even though he is married to a person of the same sex. What say you?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#470121 Dec 10, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
`
Before I begin, I'm going to include the link to the site you retrieved this information from.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-leave...
Grace Walker wrote:
We ALL fall into some sort of temptation. You are refering to a homosexual, However, Sin is sin and I dont believe God has a sliding scale from 1 to 10...
1John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Grace Walker wrote:
If a TRUE Believer has been born again, been baptized with the Holy Spirit, then The Holy Spirit will never leave a true believer. EVER!! For example, Romans 8:9
Romans 8:9 does not insinuate as much.
Grace Walker wrote:
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,“who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption.
And a remarkable manifestation of this sealing is what?

2Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The latter is instruction expected to be performed by each individual.

And as to this "guarantee," this does not indicate that our being saved is guaranteed. Rather, this "guarantee" is a pledge, provided as evidence of a coming kingdom, as promised and to encourage faith and obedience.
Grace Walker wrote:
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit”(1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit”(Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”(1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
I agree. BUT, "Believer" is the key word, here.

As James proved, faith produces obedience while obedience serves as evidence of our faith. If we decide to return to willful sin without repenting, this proves a lack of faith which means, all in all, we now doubt, or no longer believe.
Grace Walker wrote:
We didn't SAVE Ourselves...Jesus bought and paid for our sins. HE Bacame Sin SO WE could become righteous..You will have to take it up with Jesus.. He SAVED US...and yes, we ALL still fall into sin...some sins we don't even know about..So how are OUR sins any different? I DO NOT condone homosexual realtionships, However, I dont judge people who SIN differently than I DO...and neither should you..God Bless
The term "judge," according to scriptures, possesses two definitions. One is "to condemn," while the other, "to discern between righteousness and unrighteousness." We are allowed to discern, but not to condemn. You'll notice that it's written, at Matthew 7:5, "..FIRST cast out the beam out of thine own eye; AND THEN shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Our anointed Savior wasn't prohibiting judging, but hypocrisy.

Also, three verdicts exist to judging. Innocent, not guilty, and guilty.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#470122 Dec 10, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That depends on your interpretation of 1. Blasphe,y and 2. Holy Spirit.
Don't ask what did the 300 AD Roman Church say, rather ask what did that mean to a righteous Jew in 30 AD.
Here's a hint, look up Ruach Ha'Kodesh in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Yes, that pesky 'reader/audience relevance' does tend to put a kink or two in many a theological treatise.

:)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#470123 Dec 10, 2012
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man become a living soul.Genesis 2:7

And the rib of which the Lord God had taken from man,made he a woman and brought unto man.
Genesis 2:22

Therefore shall man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto him a wife and they shall be one flesh.Genesis 2:24

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470124 Dec 10, 2012
@ SimplyPut
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Let's say He was born again, sanctified and filled with Holy Ghost for 15-20 years... and let's say a Pastor of a large, mega-church who preached against homosexuality all 'dem years by saying, "Love the homosexual, hate the sin." ... and many people got saved and water baptized... and the church is running efficiently.
<quoted text>Remember, he's saved now. Does once saved always saved still continue to be applied in this circumstance? He's still a brother in the Lord, right? Even though he is married to a person of the same sex. What say you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#470125 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
First off, God doesn't condone homosexuality.
Do I believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here do? Do you?
Asking me , no, I would not. But , I do believe that Jesus would want us ,as Christians to go to the sinners and spread the word of Christ, as He most certainly did, go into the Sinner's house.
A sexual sins (adultry,prostitutes, gays, lesbian, pedophiles, cross dresser, etc, etc) I feel has to be handled straight from God , we have turn that over to God.
Hello SP, not meaning to intrude, thought you might find this interesting:

&fe ature=player_embedded

Be well..

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470126 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I believe in gay-affirming churches like some Christians on here do? Do you?
No...

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#470127 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
A tough little question there, but here goes a shot at it.
You said, that he followed Christ for years, this could be a few years, a couple years, or would you say for many years? And was he a 'born again Christian'?
If it was a few years (about 3 is a few) he is still a child in Christ, and would be easily tempted yet, same with a couple of years.
If he was a mature true 'Born again Christian'(many years) he would not fall for the temptation, if the temptation did exist to him, he would shun it,(turn the other cheek), knowing that after many years of reading the Bible and talking with God, that homosexuality is called an abomination to God. Not too many sins were called 'abomination, or any descriptive words like that, they were just called SINS, so it must have been something God very much detested.
Course, we do not know that persons heart, only God does and only God would know how to handle this.
If you feel the 'duration' of ones 'walk' is an insulation against grievous sin, I would suggest a read or re-read of 1&2 Samuel, taking particular note of one named David:)
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470128 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Let's say He was born again, sanctified and filled with Holy Ghost for 15-20 years... and let's say a Pastor of a large, mega-church who preached against homosexuality all 'dem years by saying, "Love the homosexual, hate the sin." ... and many people got saved and water baptized... and the church is running efficiently.
<quoted text>Remember, he's saved now. Does once saved always saved still continue to be applied in this circumstance? He's still a brother in the Lord, right? Even though he is married to a person of the same sex. What say you?
Qu, you are making this harder on you than you need to.

Do you actually believe what you are asking others on here ??'if they believe?

Makes no difference if it is a large mega church, makes no difference if it was 15 or 20 years, or babtizing, IF he had been a true child of Christ, he would not go back to the 'old man'

The 'old man' is gone and a new person in Christ is born.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#470129 Dec 10, 2012
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation 11:14
Revelation 10:7
See Ephesians 3:3-6
See Galatians 1:11&12
Revelation 11:15-18
See Daniel 12:1
See(battle of Armageddon spoken of)Revelation 16
Revelation 11:19
See Ecclesiastes 12:13&14
See Romans 2:12
See James 2:8-12
See Revelation 16:17&18
God finished
See Daniel 11:40-45
See Revelation 9
See Revelation 16:12
See Isaiah 8:7
See Revelation 17:15
Daniel 11:44&45
Revelation 16:12-16
Daniel 12:1&2
See Daniel 11:2-4,7,14,20,21,12:1
See Jude 9
See Thessalonians 4:16
See John 5:25
See Luke 19:11-15
See Revelation 11:15
See Revelation 3:5 and 20:12
1 Thessalonians 5:2&3
Eastern Question
Revelation 14:9&10
See Habakkuk 3:2
See Genesis 6:3&15:16&19:12&13 :2
See 2 chronicles 36:16
See Matthew 23:37&38
See Luke 19:42-44
See Peter 2:6
See Jude 7
Revelation 15:1
Daniel 12:1
See Ezekiel 7:15-19
See 1 Kings 18:17&18
See Ester 3:8-14
Revelation 22:11&12
See Zephaniah 2:1&2
See Revelation 15:8
See Revelation 16:11
See Revelation 18:7&8 and 16:5&6
See Revelation 14:10
See Revelation 16:5-7
Warning and unmixed Wrath
Seven last plagues
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470130 Dec 10, 2012
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
If you feel the 'duration' of ones 'walk' is an insulation against grievous sin, I would suggest a read or re-read of 1&2 Samuel, taking particular note of one named David:)
why I used the word duration:

There is a 'child in Christ, a new Christian walk with God, learning and reading the Bible.

There are the older mature Christians, that have even possibly read the entire Bible , and walk with God and have more perserverance.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#470131 Dec 10, 2012
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Qu, you are making this harder on you than you need to.
Actually SP, I'm just responding to your questions about how long this person was saved and a Christian. The ball is still in your court but I think that you are rationalizing the OSAS to the point in which double dribbling and the like... feel free to pass the ball if you're not sure.
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you actually believe what you are asking others on here ??'if they believe?
I'm not asking others on here if they believe on Christ or not... I believe most are sincere, I'm "simplyput"ting a situation out there that if one genuinely gets saved, and then later or early on they fall into some habitual sin then there is a danger to rationalize it away by simply declaring to oneself or to others, Once Saved Always Saved. I'm just letting you know that I used to believe that myself so I know how deep it goes... but even if you don't believe what I'm saying just remember when you get into further study. One day, Lordwilling, you will find out that it is a man-made doctrine... initially gnostic and adopted via Calvinism.

uh, just keep it in mind. It'll come to you later on.
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Makes no difference if it is a large mega church, makes no difference if it was 15 or 20 years, or babtizing, IF he had been a true child of Christ, he would not go back to the 'old man'
The 'old man' is gone and a new person in Christ is born.
If one doesn't keep that flesh "under" then that "old man" will resurrect itself. Are you saying that you are without sin?
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470132 Dec 10, 2012
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello SP, not meaning to intrude, thought you might find this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =CIw6ngIqaD0XX&feature=pla yer_embedded
Be well..
Hello

Like I have said, this has to be turned over to God. He knows the homosexuals heart, we don't. We will never know what the outcome of their talks with God are. We will never get to tell anyone,'see , I told you so.

I can always have my veiw points on homosexuality, as everyone on here can also. When asked, I will give my veiw, but no one has to agree, some will feel the same, some won't, but in return , I do not have to agree someone's veiw ,if I don't .

As a Christian, I do know the Bible, as God's word, doesn't condone that lifestyle.

simplyput

Aurora, CO

#470133 Dec 10, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually SP, I'm just responding to your questions about how long this person was saved and a Christian. The ball is still in your court but I think that you are rationalizing the OSAS to the point in which double dribbling and the like... feel free to pass the ball if you're not sure.
<quoted text>I'm not asking others on here if they believe on Christ or not... I believe most are sincere, I'm "simplyput"ting a situation out there that if one genuinely gets saved, and then later or early on they fall into some habitual sin then there is a danger to rationalize it away by simply declaring to oneself or to others, Once Saved Always Saved. I'm just letting you know that I used to believe that myself so I know how deep it goes... but even if you don't believe what I'm saying just remember when you get into further study. One day, Lordwilling, you will find out that it is a man-made doctrine... initially gnostic and adopted via Calvinism.
uh, just keep it in mind. It'll come to you later on.
<quoted text>If one doesn't keep that flesh "under" then that "old man" will resurrect itself. Are you saying that you are without sin?
Am I saying I am without sin? Where did you come up with that?

Qu, are you trying to get a rial up here? But no, I am not without sin.

I presented the options of years, a few, a couple or many and answered your questions, I wasn't passing the ball.

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