Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#469647 Dec 6, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Where does Jesus say "Do nothing, just believe what the Roman Church says and I will let you into heaven."
In fact, where does Jesus (not Paul) say anything about forgiveness being by grace ?
WHy love anyone like He taught if it means nothing. And even why does one have to "believe" if it is "free" by grace ? That isn't free nor grace. It is a condition just like works.
Hello G
You are close!! Here is where Jesus said that.

John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(KJV)

In v27 Jesus told them to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life that the Son of man shall give unto you. The people ask Jesus what work is it they are to do. Jesus answers by telling them to believe "ye believe", that is, you do the work of believing. So belief is the work that endures to everlasting life. Belief is not a work God does for you, it is a work that you must do.

Jn 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Works and obediance is NOT the root of Christianity..Its the FRUIT..

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#469648 Dec 6, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Grace...faith and works might not be the same...but they are dependent upon each other in order to survive.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them,“Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say,“You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says,“Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
***
Without work...faith is dead. Dead...no longer exists...if faith no longer exists...can you still have salvation?
You might say that faith inspires the work...I can agree with that. The question is...if the works don't follow...did one truly have faith. The above verses indicated that they are dependent upon each other. Faith can not survive without works...remember it tells us faith is dead.
Grace...before something can die...it has to have existed. If ones faith dies...are they still covered under "once saved always saved"?
You say that salvation is a gift given through the grace of God. You have given examples of how there are no conditions on a gift...it is free. Yet in these verses it tells us that your faith (salvation) will die unless you do the "work" to maintain that faith. That IMO...is a condition...as if we are being told...I will give you this free gift of salvation but it is up to you to take care of it...if you don't...then that gift will no longer exist.
Hi Annie,

Works and Obedience are not the ROOT of Christianity..Its the FRUIT..
Maybe this will explain it better...

http://answersfromthebook.org/2010/04/09/is-s...

“Painters Find Beauty in Life ”

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#469649 Dec 6, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya know shrinky..I do not give a flip what you think nor if you approve of my posts or not.
No has to read nor comment on any post that I make...I am okay with that. If they choose to...I am okay with that also.
You however do not have the authority to censor what I post...
:-)
Bonsoir Annie, in forums like these many can be difficult and selfish forgive them anyway, Sora has been insulted several times already but he forgives them, kindness is a luxury that we can afford more of in this world.
Sora

El Cajon, CA

#469650 Dec 6, 2012
Bonsoir Annie, I have learned that when dealing with those who are difficult to please, I pray that they be forgiven and their hearts be softened. If we feed their anger we shall have more in return. We must be compassionate towards all people I believe.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469651 Dec 6, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi G... As grand a ritual as the Day of Atonement was, everyone knew that it was insufficient. All they were doing were buying time. This was merely a temporary reprieve. Everyone knew that the blood of goats and bulls could not really take away sin. Before the day was done the people would have additional sin to atone for. The next day, the endless sacrifices would continue. The Day of Atonement helps us understand what Christ came to do. The doctrine of atonement reached its clearest expression under the Old Law in the events of the Day of Atonement. Upon that day, the high priest took blood for his household and the rest of the people into the holy of holies to make atonement for sin, to cleanse them from their spiritual "uncleanness" (Lev. 16:30). The writer of Hebrews reveals that this ritual was a type of the sacrifice offered by Christ (Heb. 9). Jesus made atonement for our "uncleanness" when He shed His blood and then, as our High Priest, presented His blood before the Father. The atonement of Christ was offered because man was estranged from God. The cause of that estrangement was sin and it is amply clear that the blood of Christ was shed for the forgiveness of sin (Eph. 1:7; Heb. 9:26-28). When His blood "covers" our sins we can again enjoy the fellowship with God that had been interrupted by sin (Rom. 5:1, 9-10). Because of the atonement of Christ, man can be reconciled to God.
Upon what basis was Jesus an approved sacrifice ?
According to Levirius you can't just kill an animal and call it a sacrifice. It has to be done according to the rules.

Where are the rules listed that make Jesus a proper sacrifice as Christians claim ? If you can't support the claim with Scripture written before he was crucified then you have nothing but Christian traditions created long after Jesus was dead.

All the sacrifices are spelled out in Leviticus.
Here is a list of most of them:
http://www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/taberna...

Which one is Jesus ?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469652 Dec 6, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
The relationship between faith and works is that works are the result of faith. In the Bible, faith and works are very often contrasted. They are not the same thing, and the combination of faith and works does not bring salvation. Salvation is by faith alone.
Rom. 3:28,“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
Rom. 4:5,“But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.”
Gal. 2:16,“nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus…”
False religious systems always teach that faith plus a person's works result in salvation. This is false, because our good works are filthy rags before God (Isa. 64:6). Therefore, we can’t do anything to please God by our good works. Gal. 2:21 says that if righteousness comes by the law (works), then Christ died needlessly.
Grace and truth CAME by Jesus Christ..Grace is God's unmerited favor. That is, grace is God doing good for us that we do not deserve
So in reality, Jesus Christ IS Grace.. Have a great day G Got a 10 hour work day ahead of me
http://www.learnthebible.org/what-is-grace.ht...
I asked "what did Jesus, not Paul, say about it ?" Yet you cited Paul.

Paul is not Jesus, not God and IMHO not worth the paper his letters are written on.

Why do Christians use Paul instead of Jesus to back their claims about Jesus what Jesus said ?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469653 Dec 6, 2012
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Well said Annie, you exposed that hypocrite's fallacy just for what it is.
And we agree again! <smile>

I give you props for that post!

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469654 Dec 6, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
Good Morning folks, I went ahead and passed on the once saved always saved doctrine that some espouse on here to the folks on the Why I'm No Longer a Christian Thread. That those on there who had truly accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, and got saved, and now blaspheme Him and Christians could and now live it up to their heart's desire. There is nothing that they could do about their Salvation... might as well do their worst...it's a done deal... hey, they are saved anyways.
Luther did a long dialogue on that idea. I am not sure if he was serious or pointing out how ludicrous the idea was. His famous comment to 'go forth and sin mightly as proof of your salvation' is either massive reductio ad absurdinam or proof of his lunacy.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469655 Dec 6, 2012
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
You're being very deceitful and dishonest with what you said in your post Q.
You said quote: "I went ahead and passed on the once saved always saved doctrine that some espouse on here to the folks on the Why I'm No Longer a Christian Thread."
Than you went on to say quote: "That those on there who had truly accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, and got saved, and now blaspheme Him and Christians could and now live it up to their heart's desire."
Nobody (and I mean nobody) that has said they believe that God's Holy Word teaches that "once a person is saved they can't lose their salvation" has ever "espoused" that once someone is saved that "they should go out and just live it up to their heart's desire".
In fact they've been saying just the opposite of that.
What you said in your post is very deceitful and dishonest.
No. He is being very honest. You are the one being ignorant.
I present you your good friend DR as proof. You and others pat him on the back and tell him what a good saved Christian he is, even when he was threating Annie with rape and murder.

I won't call you a liar, Red. You are just a biased and deluded old fart. May you live long and happily anyway.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469656 Dec 6, 2012
Drew H wrote:
<quoted text>
That is correct. We know who we are. Romans 8:16, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirits that we are children of God."
Paul isn't Jesus or God. His words are worthless.... just like yours.

Why don't you tell all these "Fake Christians" how they are all wrong and if they don't believe exactly what you claim God has directly revealed to you then they are unsaved and tools of Satan ?

You are not only a fraud but a coward as well.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469657 Dec 6, 2012
Drew H wrote:
<quoted text>
I stand by what I said. And when the premise is flawed, all ensuing ideas, arguments and conclusions are baseless and grossly incorrect.
As usual you can't back up a single one of your attacks on me.

You are the same egotistical fraud you have always been.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469658 Dec 6, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello G
You are close!! Here is where Jesus said that.
John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(KJV)
In v27 Jesus told them to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life that the Son of man shall give unto you. The people ask Jesus what work is it they are to do. Jesus answers by telling them to believe "ye believe", that is, you do the work of believing. So belief is the work that endures to everlasting life. Belief is not a work God does for you, it is a work that you must do.
Jn 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Works and obediance is NOT the root of Christianity..Its the FRUIT..
Thank you. Very good, an actual alleged quote of Jesus.

Now, two questions:

1. What does "believe on(in)" mean ?
2. In what other Gospels does Jesus say this ?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#469659 Dec 6, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
....Works and obediance is NOT the root of Christianity..Its the FRUIT..
What good is a fig tree with no fruit ?

The fruit tells you the quality of the root. Rotted roots yield rotted fruit or no fruit at all.

A common thread in many of Jesus' parables.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#469660 Dec 7, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
Do you have your own thread?
Rumor has it that you live in a constant state of exposure!
I am good...just trying to ward of seasonal allergies...and the cold!
Yes, Double Fine has a few threads dedicated to himself.

One thread cannot possibly contain a being so incredible, so brilliant, yet so humble

:)

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#469661 Dec 7, 2012
How do the scriptures I quote harmonize with this "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

And remember. All these verses are directed at believers. These letters, so forth and so on, were not hung in the town center for all to read. They were written, delivered, copied, and distributed, to the congregations of our 'Elohiym.

Hebrews 6:4-8
For IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were

1) once enlightened,
2) and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
3) and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
4a) And have tasted the good word of God,
4b) and the powers of the world to come,

IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1Corinthians 15:2
By which also YE ARE SAVED, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO shalt be cut off.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13
BUT he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1:22-23 ...IF ye continue in the faith.

1John 2:24 ..IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Galatians 6:9 ...we shall reap, IF we faint not.

Hebrews 3:6, 14 ... IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end...IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.

2Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, GIVE DILIGENCE TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for IF ye do these things, YE SHALL NEVER FALL.

2Peter 2:20-22
For if after THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 12:5
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God.

Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, BUT FEAR.

Fear what?

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#469662 Dec 7, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
How do the scriptures I quote harmonize with this "once saved, always saved" doctrine?
And remember. All these verses are directed at believers. These letters, so forth and so on, were not hung in the town center for all to read. They were written, delivered, copied, and distributed, to the congregations of our 'Elohiym.
Hebrews 6:4-8
For IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were
1) once enlightened,
2) and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
3) and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
4a) And have tasted the good word of God,
4b) and the powers of the world to come,
IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
1Corinthians 15:2
By which also YE ARE SAVED, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO shalt be cut off.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13
BUT he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Colossians 1:22-23 ...IF ye continue in the faith.
1John 2:24 ..IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
Galatians 6:9 ...we shall reap, IF we faint not.
Hebrews 3:6, 14 ... IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end...IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.
2Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, GIVE DILIGENCE TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for IF ye do these things, YE SHALL NEVER FALL.
2Peter 2:20-22
For if after THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Hebrews 12:5
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God.
Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, BUT FEAR.
Fear what?
tl;dr

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#469663 Dec 7, 2012
*~*~*~*~*~

M*O*R*N*I*N*G

“The old believe everything;
the middle aged suspect everything:
the young know everything.”

~ Oscar Wilde

Thought For The Day

*~*~*~*~*~

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#469664 Dec 7, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello G
You are close!! Here is where Jesus said that.
John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(KJV)
In v27 Jesus told them to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life that the Son of man shall give unto you. The people ask Jesus what work is it they are to do. Jesus answers by telling them to believe "ye believe", that is, you do the work of believing. So belief is the work that endures to everlasting life. Belief is not a work God does for you, it is a work that you must do.
Jn 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Works and obediance is NOT the root of Christianity..Its the FRUIT..
Good Morning G..

You did not reply on the correct reply..I answered your question but you replied to a different post.

In John ..John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(KJV)

The rest is in above post..We dont think Paul is God. We believe in what he wrote just like you follow Leviticus..(Moses) Do you think that Moses is God?

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#469665 Dec 7, 2012
Today's Prayer

Dear God, Your love is everlasting and far reaching. It touches my soul and lifts my spirit. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. No matter what gift I have, perhaps if the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and thought I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. Thank you, Father, that your love never fails. May I be more like Jesus, with love pure and true, and share your love with others always. In Jesus' name, amen.(in part from 1 Corinthians 13)

Prime Time with God

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#469666 Dec 7, 2012
Encouraging Words....

“The Lord is my light and my salvation so why should I be afraid? The Lord is my fortress, protecting me from danger, so why should I tremble?”

Psalm 27:1

K-Love

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