bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#468104 Nov 22, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
The word translated as "spirit" should be properly translated as "inspiration/influence " or "respiration/breath" .
That is okay. It is still from God for everyone and everything. The point is that the so-called "Holy Spirit' does not exist at all besides God, for through Isaiah, God had declared that there was no God besides God at all.

And after Jesus was long gone, the men created "God, the Holy Ghost aka the Holy Spirit".

Thanks, G_O_D

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#468105 Nov 22, 2012
LAWEST100 wrote:
Good evening Serah, hope your Thanksgivings day was a Blessed, safe and happy one. You've hit on a subject from the 6th chapter of Genesis that I've always been interested in concerning the giants of olden times, I once had a conversation with my minister on this subject and it opened my eyes to some very common sense facts concerning the origin of their existence.

To begin with many television preachers have eluded to and taught that the giants of olden times were the offspring of a union between the sons of God ( believed to be a reference to angelic beings ) and human females refered to as the daughters of men, and that these angels found them attractive and took some of them as their wives and again the result were these physically huge and gigantic beings of whom some became tbe stuff of myth and legend that may have inspired say Hercules for example, now granted he was just a Greek myth but there may have been someone in history under another name who may have inspired the legend, point is that in this conversation with my minister he eluded that Angels whom are SPIRIT beings and cannot procreate and reproduce flesh and blood beings and God only can do so through the human reproductive system that he instilled in the human biological system, the sons of God mentioned in Genesis were only a reference to the human male.

When I asked him how then did the giants come about he answered that GOD created them like he did everybody else, he did create the gigantic Dinosaurs also, makes so much sense doesn't it? I would like to your response to this as you brought the subject up or anyone else's for that matter.

Blessings.(C:
Genesis 6:1-4
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
__________

Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, my Brother.

I've heard that interpretation before, that the "sons of God" were actually direct descendants of Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, etc., etc. But, of course, I question such assertions. And why?

Well, for starters, Jude 1:6 declares, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. And secondly, 2Peter 2:4 declares, "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." Now, here's my issue.

It's hard to accept that the angels mentioned by Jude and Peter are merely those that rebelled with the devil, and that this is why they were cast down to hell and "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." I say this, because wicked spirit-beings have always been accredited for tormenting and injuring people, especially during the days our anointed Savior walked among us. Obviously, then, only a specific group of these wicked spirit-beings are mentioned by Jude and Peter. But, which? Note, too, that Peter seems to have wrote about these events in the order they occurred, beginning with these angels, then mentioning Noah, then Sodom and Gomorrha, and finally Lot.

As I believe, Jude and Peter were referring to the "sons of God" mentioned at Genesis 6. What also causes me to believe as I do is the fact that a distinction is made between "men" in verse 1 and these "sons of God" in verses 2 and 4.

What say you, my Brother?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#468106 Nov 22, 2012
LAWEST100 wrote:
You know it is interesting that in your attempt to understand what I have been trying to explain here you have have posted scriptures that bare out the point that I have been trying to make that Christ and God are ONE, you ask me why the Apostles continued to refer to him as the son of God after he ascended back up into heaven, the bible lets us that that the things of God that WERE is often spoken of as if they still ARE and those things that are to COME as well, I say again that Jesus and God are ONE as per the scripture you posted in John 17:5 and from the first chalter of John that tells us that he is the Word that was with God in the beginning and the Word that WAS God that created all things in existence.
Jesus is the Word right now in the 3rd heaven and again..........that which was son is whom will be coming back with heavenly army to do battle ar armageddon, Revelation 19:13 says his name is the WORD OF GOD, this is all the mystery of the ONE true Godhead and so Jesus will always be refered to as the son of God regardless as he is the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost all rolled into ( for lack of a better term ).
But I suggest that you pray over what you do not understand brother and may God Bless you.
Shalowm again, my Brother.

I apologize for continuing with this. I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I truly am trying to understand, but my mind won't stop with the questions. Bear with me, please and if you will. Anyway...

I believe I know the scripture you're referring to. At John 10:30, it's recorded that our anointed Savior declared, "I and my Father are one." I don't question this. I agree. But, what I do question is what was meant. Following is an example as to why.

1Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

Now, what do these two verses, John 10:30 and 1Corinthians 6:16, have in common?

ANSWER: Both use the identical Greek term and definition for "one," which is "heis."

John 10:30
I and my Father are [heis].

1Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is [heis] body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

As we can see, Paul used the identical Greek term and definition that's interpreted as "one" at 1Corinthians 6:16 as John used at John 10:30. Now, my questions to you are these.

1) Are we to interpret Paul's use of the term "one" as literal rather than figurative?

2) Does a man and harlot, according to Paul, become "one body," literally?

3) Was Paul simply alluding to how a man and harlot become joined, but in a figurative sense?

As you most likely know, most (if not all) agree that Paul was speaking figuratively. Now, my question to you is this.

1) Knowing that the interpretation of the Greek term and definition is used figuratively at 1Corinthians 6:16, why should we apply a literal interpretation of the same Greek term and definition at John 10:30?

2) Why should we believe that Paul was speaking figuratively, but John literally?

What say you, my Brother?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#468107 Nov 22, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
That is okay. It is still from God for everyone and everything. The point is that the so-called "Holy Spirit' does not exist at all besides God, for through Isaiah, God had declared that there was no God besides God at all.
And after Jesus was long gone, the men created "God, the Holy Ghost aka the Holy Spirit".
Thanks, G_O_D
I am not sure why there is a need if anyone to chop up God and then try and put him back together again with duct tape. Makes no sense at all to me.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#468108 Nov 22, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Shalowm again, my Brother.
I apologize for continuing with this. I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I truly am trying to understand, but my mind won't stop with the questions. Bear with me, please and if you will. Anyway...
I believe I know the scripture you're referring to. At John 10:30, it's recorded that our anointed Savior declared, "I and my Father are one." I don't question this. I agree. But, what I do question is what was meant. Following is an example as to why.
1Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Now, what do these two verses, John 10:30 and 1Corinthians 6:16, have in common?
ANSWER: Both use the identical Greek term and definition for "one," which is "heis."
John 10:30
I and my Father are [heis].
1Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is [heis] body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
As we can see, Paul used the identical Greek term and definition that's interpreted as "one" at 1Corinthians 6:16 as John used at John 10:30. Now, my questions to you are these.
1) Are we to interpret Paul's use of the term "one" as literal rather than figurative?
2) Does a man and harlot, according to Paul, become "one body," literally?
3) Was Paul simply alluding to how a man and harlot become joined, but in a figurative sense?
As you most likely know, most (if not all) agree that Paul was speaking figuratively. Now, my question to you is this.
1) Knowing that the interpretation of the Greek term and definition is used figuratively at 1Corinthians 6:16, why should we apply a literal interpretation of the same Greek term and definition at John 10:30?
2) Why should we believe that Paul was speaking figuratively, but John literally?
What say you, my Brother?
Hey Lee

Haven't had time to research further on the Holy Spirit yet as there are some things I want to check out in the OT. But just wanted to throw out a few verses into the conversation you and Lawest are having and see what you guys think about them...

1Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 20:28
"Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Colossians 2:9
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

...(T) Peace

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#468109 Nov 22, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
That is okay. It is still from God for everyone and everything. The point is that the so-called "Holy Spirit' does not exist at all besides God, for through Isaiah, God had declared that there was no God besides God at all.
And after Jesus was long gone, the men created "God, the Holy Ghost aka the Holy Spirit".
Thanks, G_O_D
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

The Holy Spirit was basically always referred to as the Spirit of God in the Old testament from what I have seen. Even with the wording here it is "your" Holy Spirit and not "the" Holy Spirit.

However the idea behind the Trinity isn't 3 Gods combining to make one but rather one triune God. I guess the question is how one defines it.

How would you define the Spirit of God. Do you see it solely as the breath of life serving a function like described in Job

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of The Almighty gives me life.

Or do you feel the spirit of God is God manifest in a spirit form? In other words do you believe the Spirit of God has sentience and thought? Or if not how would you describe to someone what the spirit of God is? Use the following verse to illustrate if you don't mind

Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God Created The Heavens And The Earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

I am more curious as to how someone else may describe it more than trying to challenge anything so any response is appreciated

(T) Peace

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#468110 Nov 22, 2012
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> Good evening Serah, hope your Thanksgivings day was a Blessed, safe and happy one. You've hit on a subject from the 6th chapter of Genesis that I've always been interested in concerning the giants of olden times, I once had a conversation with my minister on this subject and it opened my eyes to some very common sense facts concerning the origin of their existence.
To begin with many television preachers have eluded to and taught that the giants of olden times were the offspring of a union between the sons of God ( believed to be a reference to angelic beings ) and human females refered to as the daughters of men, and that these angels found them attractive and took some of them as their wives and again the result were these physically huge and gigantic beings of whom some became tbe stuff of myth and legend that may have inspired say Hercules for example, now granted he was just a Greek myth but there may have been someone in history under another name who may have inspired the legend, point is that in this conversation with my minister he eluded that Angels whom are SPIRIT beings and cannot procreate and reproduce flesh and blood beings and God only can do so through the human reproductive system that he instilled in the human biological system, the sons of God mentioned in Genesis were only a reference to the human male.
When I asked him how then did the giants come about he answered that GOD created them like he did everybody else, he did create the gigantic Dinosaurs also, makes so much sense doesn't it? I would like to your response to this as you brought the subject up or anyone else's for that matter.
Blessings.(C:
I agree that GOD made the Giants, perhaps they were needed for hard times and perhaps they became aggressive, such as Goliath... sadly, evil walks hand in hand with many and even GOD is astounded! The Book of JOB is one of my favourites ~ no matter what is put against us, GOD can take it away.

1 Samuel 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David...

GOD indeed gives us inner strength, especially when we have such Faith as David had, that we can triumph when surely triumph seems out of our reach :)
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#468111 Nov 22, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure why there is a need if anyone to chop up God and then try and put him back together again with duct tape. Makes no sense at all to me.
Yes, the butchery of God makes no sense. There was no need to butcher God.

Long after Paul went West, the Bishops became victims of Greek and Roman philosophers, who gave them the idea of the absurdity and monstrosity known as the Trinity or the alleged Triune God. It pleased the pagans more and became palatable.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#468112 Nov 22, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
The Holy Spirit was basically always referred to as the Spirit of God in the Old testament from what I have seen. Even with the wording here it is "your" Holy Spirit and not "the" Holy Spirit.
However the idea behind the Trinity isn't 3 Gods combining to make one but rather one triune God. I guess the question is how one defines it.
How would you define the Spirit of God. Do you see it solely as the breath of life serving a function like described in Job
Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of The Almighty gives me life.
Or do you feel the spirit of God is God manifest in a spirit form? In other words do you believe the Spirit of God has sentience and thought? Or if not how would you describe to someone what the spirit of God is? Use the following verse to illustrate if you don't mind
Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God Created The Heavens And The Earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I am more curious as to how someone else may describe it more than trying to challenge anything so any response is appreciated
(T) Peace
Thanks.

Will be out for my project meeting and will write later tonight.

Salaams

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#468113 Nov 22, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>I agree that GOD made the Giants, perhaps they were needed for hard times and perhaps they became aggressive, such as Goliath... sadly, evil walks hand in hand with many and even GOD is astounded! The Book of JOB is one of my favourites ~ no matter what is put against us, GOD can take it away.
1 Samuel 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.
50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David...
GOD indeed gives us inner strength, especially when we have such Faith as David had, that we can triumph when surely triumph seems out of our reach :)
"Giants" is another word mistranslated into English.

There are Nephalim (giants) in Genesis are the offspring of the Sons of God and daughters of men. This notion of demigods is prevelant throughout ancient religions and Genesis is simply retelling the Sumerian story although the Sumerian story is much clearer.

Now, if there were "Sons of God" in Genesis then Jesus has a whole bunch of brother gods, right ?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#468114 Nov 22, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
Will be out for my project meeting and will write later tonight.
Salaams
Cool, I look forward to it.

The more I get into it, the more difficult it has become, for me anyway, to try to properly articulate exactly how one would describe the Spirit of God in the Old Testament.

I look at verses like...

Nehemiah 9:20
You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, And did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, And gave them water for their thirst.

Verses like that seem more like an entity or part of God acting on His behalf compared to just like the breath of life. However, Isaiah makes it clear the Spirit of the Lord is synonymous with the Lord in Isaiah 40:13-14 when it first asked ""Who is able to advise the Spirit of the LORD?" And then later says "Has the LORD ever needed anyone's advice? Does he need instruction about what is good?" And also I see a pattern in the OT of it saying the Spirit of God came UPON them and not things like "dwelled in them:

I am wondering of the best way to describe the Spirit of God might be to say "touched by God". Whether when getting the breath of life or being instructed or being moved to act in a certain way; these are all things that would be the result of an interaction with God through His Spirit.

But why then even make a distinction at all? Why not just say God came upon someone or God breathed life into someone or God instructed someone? Why the need to qualify it as God sent His Spirit to do these things? Especially if the Spirit is not in a way an entity itself but still a function and part of God?

Sometimes it feels like the more i learn, the less I know

Look forward to hearing back.

(T) Peace

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#468115 Nov 23, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Genesis 6:1-4
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
__________
Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, my Brother.
I've heard that interpretation before, that the "sons of God" were actually direct descendants of Adam, y, Enos, Cainan, etc., etc. But, of course, I question such assertions. And why?
Well, for starters, Jude 1:6 declares, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. And secondly, 2Peter 2:4 declares, "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." Now, here's my issue.
It's hard to accept that the angels mentioned by Jude and Peter are merely those that rebelled with the devil, and that this is why they were cast down to hell and "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." I say this, because wicked spirit-beings have always been accredited for tormenting and injuring people, especially during the days our anointed Savior walked among us. Obviously, then, only a specific group of these wicked spirit-beings are mentioned by Jude and Peter. But, which? Note, too, that Peter seems to have wrote about these events in the order they occurred, beginning with these angels, then mentioning Noah, then Sodom and Gomorrha, and finally Lot.
As I believe, Jude and Peter were referring to the "sons of God" mentioned at Genesis 6. What also causes me to believe as I do is the fact that a distinction is made between "men" in verse 1 and these "sons of God" in verses 2 and 4.
What say you, my Brother?
Thank you BLL, and I defintely agree with you that fallen angels / demons are responsible for certain terminal illnesses that human kind suffer such as various forms forms of cancer and other diseases that man has yet to find a permanent cure to, and I believe that they torture people in other ways as well including certain forms of mental illness just for example, the bible itself bares these things out, and they also know those specifically who belong to Christ Jesus as the demon possessed man who told the false disciples 'Jesus i know, and Paul i know but who are you?' and the demon that was in that man the bible says jump on them and overpowered them and ran them out of that house hurt and naked, that would actually sound humorous if it wasn't so dangerous and creepy.

Howevet I still don't believe that they have the ability to procreate with human women, at least not anymore, but I agree with the idea that those angels that left their habitation and are being reserved in chains of darkness are a different group aside from that 3rd of the heavenly host that rebelled along side satan.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#468116 Nov 23, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
"Giants" is another word mistranslated into English.
There are Nephalim (giants) in Genesis are the offspring of the Sons of God and daughters of men. This notion of demigods is prevelant throughout ancient religions and Genesis is simply retelling the Sumerian story although the Sumerian story is much clearer.
Now, if there were "Sons of God" in Genesis then Jesus has a whole bunch of brother gods, right ?
I think they might be known more as Angels, G; I know you are not really into the Book of Revelation but want to share this here;

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

and I believe it links us back to Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

And I think it also links to JESUS in John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father....

I have given much thought to JESUS knowing exactly what HE was in for when HE came to us, to teach us to love one another, and that as now JESUS sits on the right hand side of GOD, HE is closer to GOD than all of those other 10's of thousand of 10's of thousands of Angels. But of course, these are only my thoughts and my opinion :)

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#468117 Nov 23, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Cool, I look forward to it.
The more I get into it, the more difficult it has become, for me anyway, to try to properly articulate exactly how one would describe the Spirit of God in the Old Testament.
I look at verses like...
Nehemiah 9:20
You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, And did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, And gave them water for their thirst.
Verses like that seem more like an entity or part of God acting on His behalf compared to just like the breath of life. However, Isaiah makes it clear the Spirit of the Lord is synonymous with the Lord in Isaiah 40:13-14 when it first asked ""Who is able to advise the Spirit of the LORD?" And then later says "Has the LORD ever needed anyone's advice? Does he need instruction about what is good?" And also I see a pattern in the OT of it saying the Spirit of God came UPON them and not things like "dwelled in them:
I am wondering of the best way to describe the Spirit of God might be to say "touched by God". Whether when getting the breath of life or being instructed or being moved to act in a certain way; these are all things that would be the result of an interaction with God through His Spirit.
But why then even make a distinction at all? Why not just say God came upon someone or God breathed life into someone or God instructed someone? Why the need to qualify it as God sent His Spirit to do these things? Especially if the Spirit is not in a way an entity itself but still a function and part of God?
Sometimes it feels like the more i learn, the less I know
Look forward to hearing back.
(T) Peace
I know what you mean about the more you learn, the less you know, because I too puzzle over some scriptures and yet others just make perfect sense. I love too our old sayings that are so Biblical, such as giving up the ghost when one passes over or away, and yet changing it to taking his last breath is not quite the same 'picture' at all.

Perhaps the more they have rewritten the Bible to make it easier to understand, they have lost the original meaning and it is more like reading a dictionary as such. Ah, well, at least we are still reading it, Skom, and have been brought together by our love for JESUS, so not all has been lost over these thousands of years :)

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#468118 Nov 23, 2012
Morning.....

Be less curious about people and more curious about ideas.”

~ Marie Curie

Thought For The Day

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#468119 Nov 23, 2012
Today's Prayer

Today is Friday--the day after Thanksgiving Day in the USA. People flock to the malls and outlets to spend more money than any other day of the year. There are sales to catch, gifts to buy...and debts to incur. God, please give us an extra nudge today and wisdom and a desire to live within our means today and in the days to come. You gave us a very special gift because of your love for us. And we should not give to others out of a sense of duty, but because we love or appreciate them. Help us remember that the gifts we may buy are no where near as important as the gifts of our time and love. Lord, I want to enjoy the simple pleasures of life...and make time for my friends and family this Christmas season. Thank you so much for your priceless gift of your Son, and the salvation you so lovingly provided for me. In my Savior's name I pray, amen.

Prime Time With God

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#468120 Nov 23, 2012
Encouraging WOrds....

“Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you who belong to Christ Jesus”

1 Thessalonians 5:18

K-Love

“~ Prince of Peace~”

Since: Apr 08

~ And the greatest is LOVE~

#468121 Nov 23, 2012
I will catch up later....God Bless

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#468124 Nov 23, 2012
ATTENTION TO ALL SO CALLED CHRITIANS ON THIS THREAD

YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TOO BECAUSE NONE OF YOU READ THE BIBLE YOU ALL GO ON SUNDAY SCHOOLs DOCTRINES AND FALSE CLAIMS OF HOPE BY MASIONIC PREACHERS

Some church denominations are also led by avowed Masons. For example, a 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership.(A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)

Henry Wilson Coil is the author of the encyclopedia that many lodges now accept as their authoritative source (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia). Coil says that if Freemasonry is not a religion, nothing would have to be added to make it such, and that the religious service at the funeral of a Mason is evidence enough that Freemasonry is a religion. But the fact that Freemasonry is religion would not necessarily condemn it, except that the views of the Masonic religion are in open conflict with Biblical Christianity, so much so that, in our opinion, a knowledgeable and committed Mason could not possibly be a true Christian.

MASON OATHS:

Most do not realize the terrible oaths that Masons are required to take for each advancing degree in this cult. Each Entering Apprentice, for example, is required to repeat:.

"... most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal, any of the arts, parts or points of the hidden mysteries of ancient Freemasonry.... All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to perform the same, without any mental reservation or secret evasion of mine whatever binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the rough sand of the sea at low water mark where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate my solemn oath and obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason. So help me, God."

Each succeeding degree has a similar horrible oath and penalty connected with it.


MASONS AND THE BIBLE:

Masons do not adjust their beliefs to fit the Bible, the Bible is adjusted to fit their beliefs. A Mason's loyalty is never to God but to the Lodge.

known PASTOR MASONS
Pat Robertson Here is another photo of Pat Robertson giving an occult gesture, this time the Masonic Sign of Fellow Craft, or the Devil's Claw, in a front page photo shoot for Time Magazine on February 17th 1986.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/pat_rob...

Here is Benny Hin Kenneth Copland throwing up there MASIONIC DEVIL SIGNS
http://www.informationliberation.com/files/18...

Billy Graham Graham's undeniable Masonic GESTURE on the cover of TIME MAGAZINE:
http://www.declaringthywordministries.com/bil...

The Masonic Handshake
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2242/acode...

JOHN DARBY: John Nelson Darby, who is considered the father of dispensationalism, first proposed the pretribulation rapture in 1827

What the people are not told is that, John Nelson Darby was a member of the secret order of Freemasonry, in which in 1832 at the Powerscourt Conference, he introduced his teaching of the "Secret Rapture

SHALAM!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#468125 Nov 23, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

The Holy Spirit was basically always referred to as the Spirit of God in the Old testament from what I have seen. Even with the wording here it is "your" Holy Spirit and not "the" Holy Spirit.

However the idea behind the Trinity isn't 3 Gods combining to make one but rather one triune God. I guess the question is how one defines it.

How would you define the Spirit of God. Do you see it solely as the breath of life serving a function like described in Job

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of The Almighty gives me life.

Or do you feel the spirit of God is God manifest in a spirit form? In other words do you believe the Spirit of God has sentience and thought? Or if not how would you describe to someone what the spirit of God is? Use the following verse to illustrate if you don't mind

Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God Created The Heavens And The Earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I am more curious as to how someone else may describe it more than trying to challenge anything so any response is appreciated

(T) Peace
Hello, Skombolis

Yes, you are right in saying that the Holy Spirit was basically always referred to as the Spirit of God in the Old Testament but you will not find that written in the Jewish Tanakh.

I have read and studied the translations of the Jewish Tanakh and also all translations of the Old Testament. OT translations are not accepted by the Jews.

If one reads the Jewish Tanakh and the OT in parallel, one would discover that there is no such thing as "the Spirit of God" and/or "The Holy Spirit of God" in the Tanakh.

Please allow me to quote the verses, which you quoted, from the translations of Jewish Tanakh.

Psalms 51:13. "Do not cast me away from before You, and do not take Your holy spirit from me.
14. Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, and let a noble spirit support me."

So, one does not see "Holy Spirit" of Christianity in above. "Your holy spirit" in above simply means, "your mercy".

Job 33:4 "The spirit of God made me, and the breath of the Almighty keeps me alive."

Here, the spirit of God, means the power of God and 'the breath of the Almighty" is the life-giving force of God.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water."

Here again, we do not see "the Spirit of God". It means that the power of God was at work.

That is why the concept of "Holy Spirit", the third of the Trinity does not exist in Judaism.

You must have also noted that Jesus himself said to the Samaritan woman at the well that God is spirit!

John 4: "24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

In the above verse, please note that according to Jesus, God is spirit. So, there is no need for "the Spirit" in the next part.

John 4:24 should simply read: God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the true spirit.

That, in essence, is the message given by Jesus.

I hope you will check out as many translations of the OT and the NT as you can and you will get my point.

Salaams (It means Peace, the equivalent of Shalom)

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