“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#465627 Oct 30, 2012
Epiphany2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Morning AJ.....
Yes it must be 3 AM for you....Go back and get more sleep...(If you can)
Love ya
I did...at least for a little bit.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465630 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Yes and no. If I'm not mistaken I believe Gary was tricked also. He went through that same, particular mental conditioning that those other victims had gone thru. And IMHO, thru whatever validation he needed he gave it his all and I think he genuinely believed in those dates. Now if Gary continues in selling Camping then shame on him... it would be as the Bible says (paraphrase).. "a dog returning to it's own vomit."
But he did consider selling Camping...THREE different dates spanning almost two decades. And this was a man who even if tricked was not honest about where he stood. Online he said things like "if I am wrong what's the harm?" Trust me, he NEVER said things like that on Latter Rain.It was 100% certain and anybody who didn't think so needs to leave the group because they were not committed believers. This is a man who told others give all they have and kept his own stuff. So whatever he may have believed, he lied about his conviction to protect his own neck
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this. Now this is to no one in particular. Let's say a person goes into a bar looking to hook up. They are very promisuous and eventually gets HIV but they are unaware of it. So they continue in that lifestyle and others who this person had sex with had lower immune systems so they died early or passed it on to their siblings. Eventually, they find out they have contracted the disease... Did that person have a part in the others' misfortune? Yes of course. Should they be held guilty though they did it unwittingly?
Now if they continue in that same lifestyle "knowingly" then the answer is obviously yes.
I agree but don't feel it is a fair comparison for the reasons I just gave. He knew enough to protect himself while withholding information and doubts while at the same time hammering anyone else that was hesitant to drink the kool-aide. That is just pure evil if you ask me considering the stakes

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465631 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>What is the difference between Gary and a con-man if he told them give all their money to Family Radio of which he was part of their inner circle and did not risk his own money and then when it doesn't come to pass he makes jokes about its a good thing he won't be judged by man and doesn't lift a finger to help his victims? As of right now I just see an unrepentant con-man. But regardless of what I see or don't see won't put food on the table of his victims
I believe this to be a rhetorical question so no need to answer, I'm guessing on my part. But the whole Camping thing was built on a spirit of error anyways so that will manifest itself. Concerning Gary, I don't know to what extent that is true or not.

At the end of the day, putting fury aside... I can't.. nor are you able to make him repent exactly the way you want him to. It's either judgement or mercy. It's best to pray for him and the other victims of the error while closely examining our own faults. Or something else constructive, like build a website for Camping victims or something. JMO

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465632 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Well this is about the restoration of Israel, a promise God made long ago and in which he declared in Romans that even the spiritually blind who for the time being would be considered enemies of the gospel would eventually be saved as 2Peter shows the Lord is waiting and wants all of Israel to come to repentance.
So It may simply be a middle ground for a people promised to be saved. The Lord won't condemn them but he certainly isn't going to let them sin with impunity either. For the rest of us I would think anything short of total repentance is not going to end well. JMO on that. Regardless though, we agree he would need to repent
I am going to answer some of these in separate posts
Good morning to you as well btw. I saw that in the next post:)
Jeremiah 30:11 is that and is also a truism of God throughout the scriptures. God chastens those He loves. And obviously there are consequences to are actions though we may be forgiven.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465633 Oct 30, 2012
consequences to "our" actions though we may be forgiven.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465634 Oct 30, 2012
Edit Q

Sorry, this:

"But he did consider selling Camping"

should have read

"But he did CONTINUE selling Camping"

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465635 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Jeremiah 30:11 is that and is also a truism of God throughout the scriptures. God chastens those He loves. And obviously there are consequences to are actions though we may be forgiven.
I agree God chastens those he loves.Although a sin once repented and forgiven is forgotten forever. I am not sure I agree there are still consequences in the form of punishment from God for them. There may be real life consequences but IMO anyway I think if God forgives someone he doesn't punish them after for the forgiven sin. He may punish them for other reasons or not spare them punishment or like it says in Matthew, it rains on the just and the unjust alike. But not sure I agree there is a correlation between a forgiven sin and further punishment I just think man can't go through life unscathed as it is not possible.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#465636 Oct 30, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay...I get it now. I thought you were slamming me! Paranoid I guess.
I also agree with your thoughts on this. I have some to add but I am beyond thinking tonight...I think!
I will say this...it is easy to quote scripture...even us heathens can do that. It is much harder for people to actually say how that scripture affects their lives...what it means to them.
Good morning Annie;

No reason for the paranoia.You handed some some beautiful advise some post ago about dusting off the sandels and walking.I took that advise to heart from you as knew you were right.

Yes it is easy to quote scripture but the question is what scripture.I read the conversations on this thread and often wonder what is the heart of some of them.Would they be able to do the same walk in that person shoes and make better decisions or just sit behind a computer screen and find fault with them.It is real easy to find fault but harder to know the heart of a person.Let talk scripture.Scriptures speaker louder stonger and more truthful than all of mankind.Often when scripture is quoted it gets another to thinking about the big picture of this world and all the people in it.Often it can open the mind,heart and the eyes of others.I make no excuses what so ever for the scriptures I post here as everyone is entitled to there own opinion and beliefs.I leave that scripture to speak for itself to whoever so choose to read it.Then there are those who accuse of cherry pickin the scriptures but even that speaks louder stronger and more truthful than mankind.Then there are those who do not beleive yet even God loves them just as they are and he knows he is going to show them the a way to come to him when that happens they either partake or reject.
Judgement day will be a day as no other has every witnessed.
All I done here in this post is express my humble opinion.
Have a good day.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465638 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree God chastens those he loves.Although a sin once repented and forgiven is forgotten forever. I am not sure I agree there are still consequences in the form of punishment from God for them. There may be real life consequences but IMO anyway I think if God forgives someone he doesn't punish them after for the forgiven sin. He may punish them for other reasons or not spare them punishment or like it says in Matthew, it rains on the just and the unjust alike. But not sure I agree there is a correlation between a forgiven sin and further punishment I just think man can't go through life unscathed as it is not possible.
Like King David for example, he was forgiven for committing adultery and having Uriah killed... but still God punished him, and yes, it was pretty severe. 2 Samuel chapter 12

“Body,Mind and Strength are HIS”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#465639 Oct 30, 2012
The Twelth Imam Will return, & YEOSHUA will be with Him, YEOSHUA Ha Moschiach will defeat the "ANTI-CHRIST" and set up the Rightfull Kingdom Of YHWH...

After OBOMA is re-elected POTUS..Russia will Attack Israel....

Then the End Of the Age will be....

"Child Of Promise!"

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465640 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Edit Q
Sorry, this:
"But he did consider selling Camping"
should have read
"But he did CONTINUE selling Camping"
That's why I posted a suggestion yesterday to Gary to run from Camping and all that is associated with him. I hope he truly repents.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465641 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Like King David for example, he was forgiven for committing adultery and having Uriah killed... but still God punished him, and yes, it was pretty severe. 2 Samuel chapter 12
But did David really repent?

2 Samuel 12
6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."

21 His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought,'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.'

23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

He acknowledged he sinned against the Lord but he had no pity for what he had done. And when the child was alive he fasted and wept but his motivation was to save the child. Once the child was not saved David saw no reason to continue.That seems to me like David was sorry only to the extent that he hoped in might spare judgement. When it did not, he no longer continued to be repentant. His 'repentance' was self-serving and no true remorse imo. It is like being convicted of a crime and doing community service to convince the judge you are sorry.But when it does not mitigate the sentence the person stops doing service work as they were only doing it in hopes of reducing the punishment

Although I would have to look into some other things as well in the OT as I can't say for certain there were not cases of those being truly repentant, being forgiven, and still being punished for those sins.If there are cases of that I obviously would change my mind. This particular example though it seems like David was not truly repentant.IMO anyway

(T) Peace

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465642 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree but don't feel it is a fair comparison for the reasons I just gave. He knew enough to protect himself while withholding information and doubts while at the same time hammering anyone else that was hesitant to drink the kool-aide. That is just pure evil if you ask me considering the stakes
I used that "promisuous person" situation as an example because it's more tangible to grasp and understand... so I thought it to be a more suitable comparison because when it comes to "belief" and faith... I'm sure everyone who believes in a god or God has had their reservations or may have hesitated at some point.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465643 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>That's why I posted a suggestion yesterday to Gary to run from Camping and all that is associated with him. I hope he truly repents.
True

I would add that even AFTER the May failed prediction Gary was on Latter Rain telling people that even then if they strayed from total loyalty to Camping it meant they were not true believers and since the tribulation was a spiritual one not a physical one it also meant nobody else could be saved. He flat out told people those that did not stay the course believing the new Rapture date in October that they were condemned. Him finally leaving Camping after the October failed prediction isn't deserving of much credit at that point and yet even then he still didn't do so. To the best of my knowledge he is still promoting all the rest of HC's doctrine, even the parts that were contingent on the failed timeline.

He can't even admit the verses in Mark and Matthew they specifically say man can not know are ones he got wrong or that the Son in those verses (despite over a dozen times in the rest of the passage the Son is referred to as the Son of man) is not the son of perdition.He had to find some obscure verse in Zech to say that is why man can't know.His pride is still stopping him from taking responsibility or repenting IMO.Well that and some things like his victims he simply feels is not something he needs to repent for.

But I agree, a first step would be denouncing anything to do with Camping

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#465644 Oct 30, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
But did David really repent?
2 Samuel 12
6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."
21 His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"
22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought,'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.'
23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
He acknowledged he sinned against the Lord but he had no pity for what he had done. And when the child was alive he fasted and wept but his motivation was to save the child. Once the child was not saved David saw no reason to continue.That seems to me like David was sorry only to the extent that he hoped in might spare judgement. When it did not, he no longer continued to be repentant. His 'repentance' was self-serving and no true remorse imo. It is like being convicted of a crime and doing community service to convince the judge you are sorry.But when it does not mitigate the sentence the person stops doing service work as they were only doing it in hopes of reducing the punishment
Although I would have to look into some other things as well in the OT as I can't say for certain there were not cases of those being truly repentant, being forgiven, and still being punished for those sins.If there are cases of that I obviously would change my mind. This particular example though it seems like David was not truly repentant.IMO anyway
(T) Peace
Yes David was repentant... he did all he could do for the child to survive but acknowledged there was nothing else he could do... he will see the child afterwards in the next life.

But David's household was plundered and thrown into confusion also... that was also a part of the punishment. But in any case, David repented... he even wrote a Psalm (song) about it... Psalm 51

**********

For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

1Have mercy on me, O God,

according to your unfailing love;

according to your great compassion

blot out my transgressions.

2Wash away all my iniquity

and cleanse me from my sin.

3For I know my transgressions,

and my sin is always before me.

4Against you, you only, have I sinned

and done what is evil in your sight,

so that you are proved right when you speak

and justified when you judge.

5Surely I was sinful at birth,

sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

6Surely you desire truth in the inner partsa;

you teachb me wisdom in the inmost place.

7Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;

wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

8Let me hear joy and gladness;

let the bones you have crushed rejoice.

9Hide your face from my sins

and blot out all my iniquity.

10Create in me a pure heart, O God,

and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

11Do not cast me from your presence

or take your Holy Spirit from me.

12Restore to me the joy of your salvation

and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

13Then I will teach transgressors your ways,

and sinners will turn back to you.

14Save me from bloodguilt, O God,

the God who saves me,

and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.

15O Lord, open my lips,

and my mouth will declare your praise.

16You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;

you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

17The sacrifices of God arec a broken spirit;

a broken and contrite heart,

O God, you will not despise.

18In your good pleasure make Zion prosper;

build up the walls of Jerusalem.

19Then there will be righteous sacrifices,

whole burnt offerings to delight you;

then bulls will be offered on your altar.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465645 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>I used that "promisuous person" situation as an example because it's more tangible to grasp and understand... so I thought it to be a more suitable comparison because when it comes to "belief" and faith... I'm sure everyone who believes in a god or God has had their reservations or may have hesitated at some point.
But I understood your point. It was is unknowingly hurting someone the same as deliberately doing so. And I agree it would not be.But he can't claim that. He knew what was at stake if he was wrong when he had people give away all they owned yet kept his own reservations hidden and hung onto his own belongings. He told others they were not true believers, could not be saved any longer, and were not welcome in the group for questioning Camping after the May prediction failed all while keeping his own doubts private.

To borrow your analogy that would be like a man who suspects he has AIDS but intentionally never goes to the doctor nor warns his partners this might be the case. Instead he tells them he has a clean bill of health all the while knowing he may not. Then claims afterwards because he didn't know for sure he is not at fault. Had he told his victims "hey I am not selling everything I have because there is a chance I am wrong" and they did it anyway, then this is a different discussion. Same with if he allowed doubts from others in the group instead of threatening them all while keeping his own doubts hidden.

(T) Peace

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#465646 Oct 30, 2012
Logistics Supervisor wrote:
The Twelth Imam Will return, & YEOSHUA will be with Him, YEOSHUA Ha Moschiach will defeat the "ANTI-CHRIST" and set up the Rightfull Kingdom Of YHWH...
After OBOMA is re-elected POTUS..Russia will Attack Israel....
Then the End Of the Age will be....
"Child Of Promise!"
Just stand on the Gospel of Jesus Christ and it will be ok. People get ready! Hope everyone is safe in this storm.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#465647 Oct 30, 2012
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning Epi.
With the dawning a new day the devastation of the storm is really coming to light. Some of the images and stories being told this morning are truly heart breaking. My heart felt prayers go out to everyone affected by this storm.
We are even feeling the affects from the outer bands of the storm here in Indiana. We had snow late last night and early this morning. Thankfully it didn't stick to the ground. Now it's raining. We've also had sustained winds of 35 m.p.h. with gusts up to 60 m.p.h. But nothing as bad as it was and is on the east coast. I hope everyone will keep those affected by this storm in your prayers.
Have a great day. God bless.
Yes. This is the power of our Lord Jesus! God's love bro. Sorry about your team but its still a great thing how far they went!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465648 Oct 30, 2012
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Yes David was repentant... he did all he could do for the child to survive
I guess I just don't see that as repentance.I see it as remorse that his actions were going to bring about bad consequences for someone he loved. Once he could no longer save the child he stopped fasting.

I am not saying I know he would not have been sorry afterwards for a fact if the child was never at risk but he had no remorse up until the point that he knew there would be consequences. Is fear of punishment or or acts of contrition to avoid punishment the same as being truly repentant?

Had his repentance started before the child was at risk we would know for sure I guess.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#465649 Oct 30, 2012
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>Hello bro. Why ain't you sleep? What name is that weirdo Seentheotherside posting under these days? Or maybe he's in prison sharing a cell...and only God knows what else...with those other two weirdos,Vidor and Jeebus.
I don't stay up nearly as late any more. I work to 3am and normally am sleeping by like 5am. Then I sleep 5-6 hours and back at it again. Fun fun fun

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