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Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2538
May 13, 2014
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
Even sadder is trying to deflect a conversation on raising the Minimum Wage....into the Oil and Gas Industry......
There is no deflection in the point that I am making. "LW" is talking about "good paying jobs" and a "living wage". LW is trying to make this conversation into one that equates a living wage with minimum wage, which is ludicrous. BTW, can you read the title of this thread? It has nothing to do with minimum wage, that has just been the mantra LW has been repeating, which I am addressing in another way.

Minimum wage was designed to prevent unscrupulous employers from taking advantage of entry-level workers and teenagers. It was never intended to be a "living wage", but a starting point. Aiming for minimum wage is setting the bar low, at the lowest common denominator. Raising the minimum wage will serve to:

1. Piss off the co-worker who worked his/her way up to that point (and it eliminates pay increases for those mid-level jobs)
2. Reduce and/or eliminate the number of new hires
3. Increase the final cost of the product

BTW #2--Entry-level jobs in Oil &Gas are more than double the current Minimum Wage. Those jobs should make LW happy, right, right, right???
Living Wage

Opelousas, LA

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#2539
May 13, 2014
 

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Dying wage wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll tell you what is really sad. People like you crying about minimum wage & living wage that are fighting the oil and gas industry. There are tons of good jobs in oil & gas, yet they are fighting the expansion of exploration. Expanding this industry will provide a lot of good paying jobs as well as give us energy independence, among a lot of other good things.
What is your stance on this issue?
Who is fighting the expansion of the oil and gas industry????

Too general a statement to take you seriously.

Are you speaking of the ones who are looking out for the environment (air/water)? Are you willing to give up those items for short term jobs? You just know when they are done, they will leave LA in the condition they left the coal mining towns. You want to see the value of your homes going down? Just look at what is going on in Texas.

Keep in mind, the ones NOT wanting to spend time/money to ensure that air/water quality remains high, WILL NEVER LIVE HERE. Don't you get that. They would NOT stand for it in their neck of the woods, Right?

How about sitting down and compromising? Should profits really come ahead of air and water quality? Should we even have to make a choice? REALLY?

LA has a huge bill for fixing what the oil cos. DID NOT over the last 30 to 40 years. Who should pay that bill, the oil cos. who signed a contract stating they would or you? Oil Cos. should pay what they agreed to; no more or less. Why would they NOT want to do that? Why would they spend the money on lawyers instead????
Living Wage

Opelousas, LA

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#2540
May 13, 2014
 

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Dying wage wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no deflection in the point that I am making. "LW" is talking about "good paying jobs" and a "living wage". LW is trying to make this conversation into one that equates a living wage with minimum wage, which is ludicrous. BTW, can you read the title of this thread? It has nothing to do with minimum wage, that has just been the mantra LW has been repeating, which I am addressing in another way.
Minimum wage was designed to prevent unscrupulous employers from taking advantage of entry-level workers and teenagers. It was never intended to be a "living wage", but a starting point. Aiming for minimum wage is setting the bar low, at the lowest common denominator. Raising the minimum wage will serve to:
1. Piss off the co-worker who worked his/her way up to that point (and it eliminates pay increases for those mid-level jobs)
2. Reduce and/or eliminate the number of new hires
3. Increase the final cost of the product
BTW #2--Entry-level jobs in Oil &Gas are more than double the current Minimum Wage. Those jobs should make LW happy, right, right, right???
Min. wage should be a living wage. If the person is not entitled to a living wage, why were they hired?????

By your own statement, unscrupulous employers will have to pay a Living Wage if min. wage is raised. The purpose of min. wage.

Second, good employers who are already paying a living wage or higher, WLL NOT AFFECTED in the least. Yes, this makes me VERY HAPPY!

Glad to see that you FINALLY get it.

Welcome to the light!

Since: Oct 12

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#2542
May 13, 2014
 
Living Wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Min. wage should be a living wage. If the person is not entitled to a living wage, why were they hired?????
By your own statement, unscrupulous employers will have to pay a Living Wage if min. wage is raised. The purpose of min. wage.
Second, good employers who are already paying a living wage or higher, WLL NOT AFFECTED in the least. Yes, this makes me VERY HAPPY!
Glad to see that you FINALLY get it.
Welcome to the light!
Correct, the Minimum Wage, has to be an acceptable Living Wage.....Anything else, slows the machinery in trying to increase the strength of our economy....Everyone in....Hiring and Employers will quickly adapt to this new labor level, and even if not...Business has never provided neverending success, to those that cannot adapt....Economics is fluidity....
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2543
May 13, 2014
 
Living Wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is fighting the expansion of the oil and gas industry????
Too general a statement to take you seriously.
Are you speaking of the ones who are looking out for the environment (air/water)? Are you willing to give up those items for short term jobs? You just know when they are done, they will leave LA in the condition they left the coal mining towns. You want to see the value of your homes going down? Just look at what is going on in Texas.
Keep in mind, the ones NOT wanting to spend time/money to ensure that air/water quality remains high, WILL NEVER LIVE HERE. Don't you get that. They would NOT stand for it in their neck of the woods, Right?
How about sitting down and compromising? Should profits really come ahead of air and water quality? Should we even have to make a choice? REALLY?
LA has a huge bill for fixing what the oil cos. DID NOT over the last 30 to 40 years. Who should pay that bill, the oil cos. who signed a contract stating they would or you? Oil Cos. should pay what they agreed to; no more or less. Why would they NOT want to do that? Why would they spend the money on lawyers instead????
All the Libs, starting with the "great & mighty O", are fighting oil & gas development. You have also made statements lambasting oil & gas, including the statement I am responding to. BP has put up huge amounts of money to cover their well accident, and there is still a lot of money in the kitty that has gone unspent. There is plenty of compromise already going on, and 2 buttloads of regulations to go along with it. The Fed isn't allowing the amount of drilling we need to be energy self-sufficient. They are concentrating too much effort on "green", while stifling oil & gas, as well as clean coal energy production. I've got no problem with "green", we should be good stewards of our environment. But foregoing our natural resources to "create" a new energy source with government money is much more foolish than "foreign wars" you always bitch about. "Foreign wars" have historically been in our national interest to provide stability to an unstable region and to help suffering people. "Green" energy isn't yet practical on a large scale, and would be a much better investment for private industry instead of government. Haven't you ever heard of all the waste in "government contracts"?$1,000 hammers and $5,000 toilet seats? When it becomes feasible (profitable) on a large scale, private industry will do it on their own (until some "profit hound" like you tries to regulate them out of business). Oil & gas is our direct path to energy independence, not Solyndra and their ilk.

I can tell you what is going on in Texas: Lots of good paying jobs, lots of new industry. Lots of new businesses moving to Texas, with lots of new jobs opening up. Low taxes (no income tax) and incentives for businesses to open there. In fact, a lot of businesses have left high-tax states like California and New York to go to Texas:

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-t...

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/business-h...

So, taxing those "nasty, evil, profit-making" businesses does not encourage business growth and jobs, no matter how much you believe it does. Incentives for businesses to make profit is what will make businesses expand and offer better jobs. Not forcing an arbitrary "minimum wage" down their throats.

Personally, I would rather see no price increase and 1,000 "$7.25/hr. jobs" than see price increases and 600 "$15/hr. jobs". You get to explain to the other 400 why they have no job, and hopefully you will also get to support them when they go on the government dole 100%.
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2544
May 13, 2014
 
Living Wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is fighting the expansion of the oil and gas industry????
Too general a statement to take you seriously.
Are you speaking of the ones who are looking out for the environment (air/water)? Are you willing to give up those items for short term jobs? You just know when they are done, they will leave LA in the condition they left the coal mining towns. You want to see the value of your homes going down? Just look at what is going on in Texas.
Keep in mind, the ones NOT wanting to spend time/money to ensure that air/water quality remains high, WILL NEVER LIVE HERE. Don't you get that. They would NOT stand for it in their neck of the woods, Right?
How about sitting down and compromising? Should profits really come ahead of air and water quality? Should we even have to make a choice? REALLY?
LA has a huge bill for fixing what the oil cos. DID NOT over the last 30 to 40 years. Who should pay that bill, the oil cos. who signed a contract stating they would or you? Oil Cos. should pay what they agreed to; no more or less. Why would they NOT want to do that? Why would they spend the money on lawyers instead????
All the Libs, starting with the "great & mighty O", are fighting oil & gas development. You have also made statements lambasting oil & gas, including the statement I am responding to. BP has put up huge amounts of money to cover their well accident, and there is still a lot of money in the kitty that has gone unspent. There is plenty of compromise already going on, and 2 buttloads of regulations to go along with it. The Fed isn't allowing the amount of drilling we need to be energy self-sufficient. They are concentrating too much effort on "green", while stifling oil & gas, as well as clean coal energy production. I've got no problem with "green", we should be good stewards of our environment. But foregoing our natural resources to "create" a new energy source with government money is much more foolish than "foreign wars" you always bitch about. "Foreign wars" have historically been in our national interest to provide stability to an unstable region. "Green" energy isn't yet practical on a large scale, and would be a much better investment for private industry instead of government. Haven't you ever heard of all the waste in "government contracts"?$1,000 hammers and $5,000 toilet seats? When it becomes feasible (profitable) on a large scale, private industry will do it on their own (until some "profit hound" like you tries to regulate them out of business). Oil & gas is our direct path to energy independence, not Solyndra and their ilk.

I can tell you what is going on in Texas: Lots of good paying jobs, lots of new industry. Lots of new businesses moving to Texas, with lots of new jobs opening up. Low taxes (no income tax) and incentives for businesses to open there. In fact, a lot of businesses have left high-tax states like California and New York to go to Texas:

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-t...

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/business-h...

So, taxing those "nasty, evil, profit-making" businesses does not encourage business growth and jobs, no matter how much you believe it does. Incentives for businesses to make profit is what will make businesses expand and offer better jobs. Not forcing an arbitrary "minimum wage" down their throats.

Personally, I would rather see no price increase and 1,000 "$7.25/hr. jobs" than see price increases and 600 "$15/hr. jobs". You get to explain to the other 400 why they have no job, and hopefully you will also get to support them when they go on the government dole 100%.
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2546
May 13, 2014
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> Correct, the Minimum Wage, has to be an acceptable Living Wage.....Anything else, slows the machinery in trying to increase the strength of our economy....Everyone in....Hiring and Employers will quickly adapt to this new labor level, and even if not...Business has never provided neverending success, to those that cannot adapt....Economics is fluidity....
Define "acceptable Living Wage".

Explain how an increased expense on employers will "strengthen our economy" and cause them to hire more people.

Since: Oct 12

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#2547
May 13, 2014
 
Dying wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Define "acceptable Living Wage".
Explain how an increased expense on employers will "strengthen our economy" and cause them to hire more people.
I believe studies have set it at $10.15 an hour....$7 is sad as hell....
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2548
May 13, 2014
 
Living Wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Min. wage should be a living wage. If the person is not entitled to a living wage, why were they hired?????
By your own statement, unscrupulous employers will have to pay a Living Wage if min. wage is raised. The purpose of min. wage.
Second, good employers who are already paying a living wage or higher, WLL NOT AFFECTED in the least. Yes, this makes me VERY HAPPY!
Glad to see that you FINALLY get it.
Welcome to the light!
Minimum wage was never intended to equate to "living wage", which nobody seems to be able to define. It is a starting point in SOME job markets.

It is not "by my own statement" that employers be required to pay this as yet to be defined "living wage". Minimum wage was designed to prevent an employer from paying less. Nobody ever said it was a level of pay to guarantee a high standard of living. It IS an entry-level pay. Nobody should aspire to earn minimum wage, to aim low so that you can always hit the target. That is not the exceptionalism that employees should always aim to achieve. It is a starting point.

Suppose: I have worked for ABC company for 12
Living Wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Min. wage should be a living wage. If the person is not entitled to a living wage, why were they hired?????
By your own statement, unscrupulous employers will have to pay a Living Wage if min. wage is raised. The purpose of min. wage.
Second, good employers who are already paying a living wage or higher, WLL NOT AFFECTED in the least. Yes, this makes me VERY HAPPY!
Glad to see that you FINALLY get it.
Welcome to the light!
Minimum wage was never intended to equate to "living wage", which nobody seems to be able to define. It is a starting point in SOME job markets.

It is not "by my own statement" that employers be required to pay this as yet to be defined "living wage". Minimum wage was designed to prevent an employer from paying less. Nobody ever said it was a level of pay to guarantee a high standard of living. It IS an entry-level pay. Nobody should aspire to earn minimum wage, to aim low so that you can always hit the target. That is not the exceptionalism that employees should always aim to achieve. It is a starting point.

Suppose: I have worked for ABC company for 8 years, I started when minimum wage was $5.15/hr. I have worked my way up, I'm a shift manager, and I now make $10.50/hr. "Living wage" and "Blue" come in and change the law so that "minimum wage" is now $10.10/hr. My boss hires a guy that knows nothing about the job, and I have to train him every aspect of the job. Am I pissed off? You bet I am! I worked 8 years for my $10.50/hr., now this guy makes only 40 cents an hour less. And because he got so much just starting out, it is going to be even harder for me to get a raise in the future because the labor budget is so tight. Nobody will get a raise any time soon. All the people who were under me, making $8 & $9 aren't too happy, either, even though they got a raise this guy now makes the same as they do. This "living wage" crap does me no good whatsoever, and tensions are really high at work. Productivity has gone in the toilet, and yes, I admit it is partly because of me. Damn, who can blame me, I worked hard for 8 years to get where this guy got coming in off the street.

The purpose of minimum wage is to prevent employers from hiring Joe Blow off the street for $2/hr. That would be unfair to him and to current employees, because if he is productive the employer could fire higher paid employees and replace them for his $2/hr. cost.

Minimum wage jobs are not and never were meant to be "family supporting" wages for one-worker families. Do a little research and you will find that the very small minority of minimum wage workers fall into that category (I think it's around 3% of minimum wage workers).
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2549
May 13, 2014
 

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I don't know what happened on my last couple of posts. Sorry for double-posting, my first one never showed up, and the "quote" in the middle of my last one wasn't there before I clicked "post comment". I blame the keyboard! Hopefully you can read past the errors and get the point. I think you probably can.

I would think that gradual increases would not be a bad thing. It can't and shouldn't stay at $7.25 in perpetuity. However, a jump to $10/hr. would be too drastic. How about a move to $8? Not earth-shattering, yet not so drastic as to tump over the apple cart. Plan another increase a couple of years down the road?$10 right off the bat would cause a lot of problems, IMO.
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2550
May 13, 2014
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> I believe studies have set it at $10.15 an hour....$7 is sad as hell....
You answered neither question put to you. No answers?

Since: Oct 12

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#2551
May 14, 2014
 

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Dying wage wrote:
<quoted text>
Define "acceptable Living Wage".
Explain how an increased expense on employers will "strengthen our economy" and cause them to hire more people.
Increased pay alway's equates to more spending and increase in consumer confidence....70% of our American economy is generated by our own spending domestically.....DON"T EVER DEMAND ANSWERS....Good manners cost nothing....especially with economic basics, you should have learned in school.....
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2552
May 14, 2014
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> Increased pay alway's equates to more spending and increase in consumer confidence....70% of our American economy is generated by our own spending domestically.....DON"T EVER DEMAND ANSWERS....Good manners cost nothing....especially with economic basics, you should have learned in school.....
You've got a high level of self-importance, don't you?

So, businesses should just gladly pay employees more so that "consumer confidence" will be higher? They are worried about the bottom line.

Don't lecture me on economics or what I should have learned in school. You should have learned better grammar, always doesn't need an apostrophe, but don't does, instead of a quotation mark.

Yelling at me because you can't answer questions is a little childish, don't you think?
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2553
May 14, 2014
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> Increased pay alway's equates to more spending and increase in consumer confidence....70% of our American economy is generated by our own spending domestically.....DON"T EVER DEMAND ANSWERS....Good manners cost nothing....especially with economic basics, you should have learned in school.....
You quoted my questions, but didn't answer them, bozo.
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2554
May 14, 2014
 

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http://thehill.com/video/international/204674...

Yep, all those "foreign wars" LW bitches about, this committed by his hero "O". Where's your righteous indignation over THIS?
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2555
May 14, 2014
 

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http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/2...

LW, dude! Must be a part of your crowd, dude!
Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2556
May 14, 2014
 

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Ralph Nader is my hero, and I take every word he has spoken as gospel. Benghazi was all Obamaís fault, and he should be impeached for it. Iíll bet Obama personally paid his museum brothers to kill our ambassador.

Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi!
The Real Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2557
May 14, 2014
 

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Dying wage wrote:
Ralph Nader is my hero, and I take every word he has spoken as gospel. Benghazi was all Obamaís fault, and he should be impeached for it. Iíll bet Obama personally paid his museum brothers to kill our ambassador.
Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi. Remember Benghazi!
Not me, but the troll again.

BTW, what is a "museum" brother?

Just because Nader said it, does that in and of itself make it any less true?
The Real Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2558
May 14, 2014
 

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http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/n...

Wait, maybe Rogers is wrong, too?
The Real Dying wage

Natchitoches, LA

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#2559
May 14, 2014
 

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http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/...

I would think all you lunatics would want a coverup exposed, but I guess your partisan feelings are in the way. Only Obama and Hillary are to be trusted on matters that cover(up) their asses.

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