Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#17369 Jul 5, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a link to this info. I am guessing ALL of the above except for the U.S. have socialized medicine, huh? lol
You hit that on the head, universal health care was definitely a factor.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#17370 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
And your point is..........
Nothing you just posted is new between what I posted and what you posted so I will repeat, how do you think this is helping your case?
Let's see, what does this mean...
"So now you argue with polls,"
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
So now you argue with polls, are you saying the businesses that responded were lying?

1. It could mean that a person is a using a poll to bolster an argument, which is certianly what you were doing in this post:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
----'Forty-one percent of the businesses surveyed have frozen hiring because of the health-care law known as Obamacare. And almost one-fifth—19 percent— answered "yes" when asked if they had "reduced the number of employees you have in your business as a specific result of the Affordable Care Act." '
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100825782

OR

2. It could mean that you are accussing someone of having an argument with a poll, as if to say "Why are you arguing with an inanimate object that can't argue back", but this doesn't make sense because the argument would be with the person using the poll to bolster their argument.

Now to answer your most recent question,
"And your point is.........."
Let's look at the article that you referenced to bolster your argument (it could be said that you are arguing with a poll)...

"Forty-one percent of the businesses surveyed have frozen hiring because of the health-care law known as Obamacare."

Does this mean that 59% did not freeze hirng because of Obamacare, we'll never know because the poll itself was not referenced in the article you cited (perhaps because it was a privately commissioned poll).
..........
"19 percent— answered "yes" when asked if they had "reduced the number of employees you have in your business as a specific result of the Affordable Care Act."

Does this mean that 81% answered "no" to the same question, again we'll never know unless we see the actual poll.
..........
"while another 39 percent saw "no impact." (from Obamamcare on their business)

If your 19% finding bolsters some point that you are trying to make, then this 39% finding must have twice the bolstering power.
.....
As the article states "The prevalent pessimism tracks other answers in the poll", and yes, the article certianly does show a "prevalent pessimism", which I suspect, is why you referenced this article about a poll to bolster your argument.

But the article also balances this "prevalent pessimism" by stating...

...Gallup Chief Economic Dennis Jacobe said small business owners' answers in the poll "is consistent with owners' tendency to be more Republican than Democratic, higher-income, more against big government, more conservative and less optimistic than Americans overall."

And this statement offers one more opinion in an article about an opinion poll...

One group that favors Obamacare for small businesses said the findings reflect misconceptions about its true effects as well as the need for continued outreach by reform advocates to the small business community.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#17371 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a feeling it wouldn't take 5 minutes to discredit this ranking, let's try 3 minutes.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/37th-in-heal...
Uhmmmm, so factcheck.org is now an approved site, perhaps you can tell us specifically what aspects of the site lead to its approval rating.
danger zone

Covington, GA

#17372 Jul 5, 2013
not so wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you are truly clueless. The things you mention are common with insurance companies who are only concerned with profits. If anything changes its more likely healthcare for the masses will improve. More customers for insurance companies will result in better healthcare. Spreading the cost to everyone instead of just the insured will over time should reduce costs to everyone. It will be hard to see due to the constant increase in health care costs that aging Americans demand. Hip replacements at 90 and other
unnecessary and wasteful spending.
You as many others are under the impression that we have great health care, NOT SO! If ignorance is bliss you are one happy moron. The health care profession and our government want people like you to believe that we are still the best in the world for health care. Heck rich people from all over the world have come here for treatment. The best is still available in this country, its just not available to all anymore. Read toward the bottom, at 37 in the world you will find your idea of QUALITY HEALTHCARE.
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
Insurance companies are about turning profits, of course they are. That's why you'll see your deductibles skyrocket & premiums double if you're overweight, smoke, or have even a slightly elevated cholesterol or blood sugar. Pray, no serious ailments inflict you or loved ones, premiums may be unaffordable. It's already happening, Obamacare & insurance companies prefer "healthy" clients. They love big profits. Americans have been reassured pre-existing conditions must be covered, but they haven't been reassured this will be offerred at an affordable cost.

If you believe Obamacare & IPABs are the answer, so be it. As for my thoughts, Obamacare will turn out being a survival of the fittest type plan, where healthy Americans will be favored over unhealthy, overweight, diabetic, smokers. The same with private insurers... I mean, it IS about profits & keeping the cost of healthcare as low as possible. If you think otherwise, you're the clueless one.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#17373 Jul 5, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhmmmm, so factcheck.org is now an approved site, perhaps you can tell us specifically what aspects of the site lead to its approval rating.
"The site has gained recognition and won numerous awards for its contributions to political journalism. In 2006, TIME magazine named FactCheck.org one of the “25 Sites We Can’t Live Without.”[13] In 2008, PC Magazine called it one of the “20 Best Political Websites.”[14] Between 2008 and 2012, the site won four Webby Awards in the Politics category, in 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2012; as well as four People’s Voice Awards in Politics, in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2012.[15] FactCheck.org also won a 2010 Sigma Delta Chi Award from the Society of Professional Journalists for reporting on deceptive claims made about the federal health care legislation.[16]"

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2329086,...
https://www.spj.org/sdxa10.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck.org

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#17374 Jul 5, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see, what does this mean...
"So now you argue with polls,"
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
So now you argue with polls, are you saying the businesses that responded were lying?
1. It could mean that a person is a using a poll to bolster an argument, which is certianly what you were doing in this post:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
----'Forty-one percent of the businesses surveyed have frozen hiring because of the health-care law known as Obamacare. And almost one-fifth—19 percent— answered "yes" when asked if they had "reduced the number of employees you have in your business as a specific result of the Affordable Care Act." '
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100825782
OR
2. It could mean that you are accussing someone of having an argument with a poll, as if to say "Why are you arguing with an inanimate object that can't argue back", but this doesn't make sense because the argument would be with the person using the poll to bolster their argument.
Now to answer your most recent question,
"And your point is.........."
Let's look at the article that you referenced to bolster your argument (it could be said that you are arguing with a poll)...
"Forty-one percent of the businesses surveyed have frozen hiring because of the health-care law known as Obamacare."
Does this mean that 59% did not freeze hirng because of Obamacare, we'll never know because the poll itself was not referenced in the article you cited (perhaps because it was a privately commissioned poll).
..........
"19 percent— answered "yes" when asked if they had "reduced the number of employees you have in your business as a specific result of the Affordable Care Act."
Does this mean that 81% answered "no" to the same question, again we'll never know unless we see the actual poll.
..........
"while another 39 percent saw "no impact." (from Obamamcare on their business)
If your 19% finding bolsters some point that you are trying to make, then this 39% finding must have twice the bolstering power.
.....
As the article states "The prevalent pessimism tracks other answers in the poll", and yes, the article certianly does show a "prevalent pessimism", which I suspect, is why you referenced this article about a poll to bolster your argument.
But the article also balances this "prevalent pessimism" by stating...
...Gallup Chief Economic Dennis Jacobe said small business owners' answers in the poll "is consistent with owners' tendency to be more Republican than Democratic, higher-income, more against big government, more conservative and less optimistic than Americans overall."
And this statement offers one more opinion in an article about an opinion poll...
One group that favors Obamacare for small businesses said the findings reflect misconceptions about its true effects as well as the need for continued outreach by reform advocates to the small business community.
"It could mean that a person is a using a poll to bolster an argument, which is certianly what you were doing in this post:"

Wow, you found me out - I USED A POLL TO BOLSTER AN ARGUMENT - what a novel idea.
andy

Jefferson, GA

#17375 Jul 5, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a link to this info. I am guessing ALL of the above except for the U.S. have socialized medicine, huh? lol
FINALLY a conservative the admits that so called socialized medicine is better than the strictly for profit system that we enjoy. As for the link, look it up yourself. Do you really think its funny that 36 other countries take better care of their citizens than the U.S., or are you just..........
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#17376 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you found me out - I USED A POLL TO BOLSTER AN ARGUMENT - what a novel idea.
"So now you argue with polls,"

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#17377 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a feeling it wouldn't take 5 minutes to discredit this ranking, let's try 3 minutes.
=====
"A closer look at the WHO health care study reveals startling assumptions, critical lapses in statistical judgment, and a clearly predetermined politica agenda." http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/w...
=====
The WHO referenced is the World Health Organization.
'WHO couldn’t gather all the appropriate data for all nations, so its researchers had to make some assumptions and calculations using other bits of information, such as literacy rates and income. Bialik quotes the editor in chief of the report, Philip Musgrove, as saying that the figures that resulted from these assumptions are "so many made-up numbers." Musgrove, deputy editor of Health Affairs, calls the end result "nonsense ranking" and the very attempt to rank health care systems "a fool’s errand." '
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/37th-in-heal...
+1

BTW, when was the last time you heard of anyone going to any of the countries near the top of the list (France, Italy) for a major procedure?

I do know some people that have had procedures done in India, partially for the lower cost AND, likely the bigger reason, because that's where they grew up and where their family is (to help take care of them for a couple of weeks after the procedure)...

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#17378 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a feeling it wouldn't take 5 minutes to discredit this ranking, let's try 3 minutes.
=====
"A closer look at the WHO health care study reveals startling assumptions, critical lapses in statistical judgment, and a clearly predetermined politica agenda." http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/w...
=====
The WHO referenced is the World Health Organization.
'WHO couldn’t gather all the appropriate data for all nations, so its researchers had to make some assumptions and calculations using other bits of information, such as literacy rates and income. Bialik quotes the editor in chief of the report, Philip Musgrove, as saying that the figures that resulted from these assumptions are "so many made-up numbers." Musgrove, deputy editor of Health Affairs, calls the end result "nonsense ranking" and the very attempt to rank health care systems "a fool’s errand." '
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/37th-in-heal...
+1 (again)

In other words, you blew that post out of the water...

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#17379 Jul 5, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a link to this info. I am guessing ALL of the above except for the U.S. have socialized medicine, huh? lol
+1

You, perhaps, should have noted your sarcasm a little better, some clueless and uneducated minion misinterpreted your "lol"...

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#17381 Jul 5, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
"So now you argue with polls,"
Ah, I think I understand the problem now, "what we have here is a failure to communicate".

"So now you argue with polls" = when I used it, I meant that your post seemed to imply you were arguing with the legitimacy of the poll RESULTS.

I believe you thought I was criticizing you for USING polls to argue.(And yes, that would have been a silly argument, had I been making it.)

I would say the miscommunication was my fault, I should have been more clear that I believed you were arguing with the poll RESULTS, as opposed to USING poll results.

I hope that made sense this time.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#17383 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
"The site has gained recognition and won numerous awards for its contributions to political journalism. In 2006, TIME magazine named FactCheck.org one of the “25 Sites We Can’t Live Without.”[13] In 2008, PC Magazine called it one of the “20 Best Political Websites.”[14] Between 2008 and 2012, the site won four Webby Awards in the Politics category, in 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2012; as well as four People’s Voice Awards in Politics, in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2012.[15] FactCheck.org also won a 2010 Sigma Delta Chi Award from the Society of Professional Journalists for reporting on deceptive claims made about the federal health care legislation.[16]"
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2329086,...
https://www.spj.org/sdxa10.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck.org
Just wondering, does PolitiFact have your seal of approval, they were only awarded a single Pulitzer?

Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_f...
2009: St. Petersburg Times Staff, "for “PolitiFact,” its fact-checking initiative during the 2008 presidential campaign that used probing reporters and the power of the World Wide Web to examine more than 750 political claims, separating rhetoric from truth to enlighten voters."
What

Broken Arrow, OK

#17384 Jul 5, 2013
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#17385 Jul 5, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
Ah, I think I understand the problem now, "what we have here is a failure to communicate".
"So now you argue with polls" = when I used it, I meant that your post seemed to imply you were arguing with the legitimacy of the poll RESULTS.
I believe you thought I was criticizing you for USING polls to argue.(And yes, that would have been a silly argument, had I been making it.)
I would say the miscommunication was my fault, I should have been more clear that I believed you were arguing with the poll RESULTS, as opposed to USING poll results.
I hope that made sense this time.
I'm surprised at such an admission, most would not have had the guts.

I never questioned the integrity of the poll, and the "legitimacy" of the results were explained at the end of the referenced article.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100825782
...Gallup Chief Economic Dennis Jacobe said small business owners' answers in the poll "is consistent with owners' tendency to be more Republican than Democratic, higher-income, more against big government, more conservative and less optimistic than Americans overall."

One group that favors Obamacare for small businesses said the findings reflect misconceptions about its true effects as well as the need for continued outreach by reform advocates to the small business community.
What

Broken Arrow, OK

#17386 Jul 5, 2013
"Dan Savage, founder of the “It Gets Better” project, an anti-bullying campaign that has reached more than 40 million viewers with contributors ranging from President Obama to Hollywood stars. Savage also writes a sex advice column called “Savage Love.”

Savage, and his husband, were also guests at the White House for President Obama’s 2011 LGBT Pride Month reception. He was also invited to a White House anti-bullying conference."

So Obama contributes to this anti-bulling campaign lead by a homosexual. So lets see how he conducts an anti-bulling campaign at the link below.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stor...




Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17387 Jul 5, 2013
andy wrote:
<quoted text>FINALLY a conservative the admits that so called socialized medicine is better than the strictly for profit system that we enjoy. As for the link, look it up yourself. Do you really think its funny that 36 other countries take better care of their citizens than the U.S., or are you just..........
Agreed.

Socialized medicine by definition has to be more efficient than allowing insurers to make a profit by skimming off the healthiest people, and charging as highest cost possible for the least benefits possible.

Someday we'll join the rest of the industrialized world and enact a one-payor system.
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17388 Jul 5, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>"So now you argue with polls,"
Thanks for the great posts.

Watching your posts factually decimate our Right Wing friends' silliness is entertaining.

Watching them contradict themselves in intellectually painful contortions is even more amusing.

factually
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17389 Jul 5, 2013
What wrote:
Lets see....

Virginia ..

Governor - Right Wing Wacko Republican

Senate - Controlled by Right Wing Wacko Republicans.

House - Controlled by Right Wing Wacko Republicans

Lt. Governor - Right Wing Wacko Republican.

Attorney General - Right Wing Wacko Republican.

Sounds like the girl was lucky they didn't decide she was an "enemy combatant" and just "drone" her.
Informed Opinion

Cape Coral, FL

#17390 Jul 5, 2013
Gotta love it ... another shiny object distraction bites the dust.

But don't worry .... another shiny object will be on the way.

"Even More Evidence Shows the IRS Didn't Single Out Conservatives"

http://gawker.com/even-more-evidence-shows-th...

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