U.S. to reveal results of Toyota probe

The government is expected to announce Tuesday the results of a 10-month inquiry into possible causes of unintended acceleration in Toyota cars and trucks.

[JohnInLa]

Some Toyotas, etc. have no old fashioned mechanical throttle cable and springs connected from the accelerator pedal to the engine they have what amounts to a computer mouse incorporated into the accelerator pedal giving computerized commands for the engine to accelerate or decelerate. I do not who came up with such unnecessary complicated idiocy but they need to can-it because it has no place whatsoever on a piston engine.

[Too Much Death]

Cheaper is not better.

[Aquarius-WY]

JohnInLa wrote:

Some Toyotas, etc. have no old fashioned mechanical throttle cable and springs connected from the accelerator pedal to the engine they have what amounts to a computer mouse incorporated into the accelerator pedal giving computerized commands for the engine to accelerate or decelerate. I do not who came up with such unnecessary complicated idiocy but they need to can-it because it has no place whatsoever on a piston engine.

Pistons, electric, or rotary ... what's the difference? NOTHING.

GM, Chrysler, and Ford HAVE been using electronic throttle control for a few years now too.
Big deal. They ARE as safe as ANY other throttle control system.

Mechanical linkages break and stick open causing crashes. It HAS happened alot in the past.

Throttle cables fray and break, and ALSO cause stuck open throttle problems.

Floor mats cause stuck open throttles. Broken throttle return springs cause stuck open throttles in ALL types of mechanical linkages too.

Big deal.
Your point is moot ... and just plain ole silly.

[Darius]

Aquarius-WY wrote:

<quoted text>
Pistons, electric, or rotary ... what's the difference? NOTHING.
GM, Chrysler, and Ford HAVE been using electronic throttle control for a few years now too.
Big deal. They ARE as safe as ANY other throttle control system.
Mechanical linkages break and stick open causing crashes. It HAS happened alot in the past.
Throttle cables fray and break, and ALSO cause stuck open throttle problems.
Floor mats cause stuck open throttles. Broken throttle return springs cause stuck open throttles in ALL types of mechanical linkages too.
Big deal.
Your point is moot ... and just plain ole silly.

You're absolutely right!
What is really "plain ole silly" is these the bigoted nonsense posted by some neanderthals!

[The Skinny Kenyan]

The results of this investigation prove what I suspected all along. The problem isn't the machine it's the idiots that drive them. I also suspect that there was a political aspect to this highly publicized recall.

[Aquarius-WY]

The Skinny Kenyan wrote:

The results of this investigation prove what I suspected all along. The problem isn't the machine it's the idiots that drive them. I also suspect that there was a political aspect to this highly publicized recall.

What would be the political angle you see?

[The Skinny Kenyan]

Aquarius-WY wrote:

<quoted text>
What would be the political angle you see?

I think that the US government's slapping around of Toyota was to prop up GM. GM & Chrysler have been getting their teeth kicked in by Japanese companies (particularly Toyota) for years. What better than a fabricated safety issue to thwart Toyota sales.

[JJFADS]

The Skinny Kenyan wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that the US government's slapping around of Toyota was to prop up GM. GM & Chrysler have been getting their teeth kicked in by Japanese companies (particularly Toyota) for years. What better than a fabricated safety issue to thwart Toyota sales.

Sir, Toyota’s vehicles were not recalled for electronic failures. They were recalled for sticking gas pedals and floor mats that were not secured. The electronics came into play as a possible issue that warranted further study. Regardless, Toyota recalled the suspect vehicles and performed “minor surgery” to repair the known problems. Toyota was responsible and they remain responsible and I suspect they will be held accountable for many of these lawsuits that are floating around.
Using your logic re: the driver made a mistake would lead us all to believe Toyota attracts incompetent drivers that don’t know the difference between a gas and brake pedal. Would you like tto explain this phenomena to us?

[The Skinny Kenyan]

JJFADS wrote:

<quoted text>
Sir, Toyota’s vehicles were not recalled for electronic failures. They were recalled for sticking gas pedals and floor mats that were not secured. The electronics came into play as a possible issue that warranted further study. Regardless, Toyota recalled the suspect vehicles and performed “minor surgery” to repair the known problems. Toyota was responsible and they remain responsible and I suspect they will be held accountable for many of these lawsuits that are floating around.
Using your logic re: the driver made a mistake would lead us all to believe Toyota attracts incompetent drivers that don’t know the difference between a gas and brake pedal. Would you like tto explain this phenomena to us?

I already have. Since the issue with Toyota was found to be a simple floor mat issue, then why the highly publicized study of it's electronic acceleration system? Simple. Negative publicity. When all the smoke clears from these bogus claims, there will not be one shred of evidence proving faulty engineering or construction of Toyota vehicles. Toyota specifically, doesn't attract incompetent drivers. The truth is Toyota has never been any more or any less susceptible to "sudden acceleration" than any other make of vehicle. There has always been foolish drivers (of all makes of automobiles) who press the gas when they should press the brake. The reason why you were made aware of Toyota drivers acting foolishly, via a government mandated safety recall, is because it provided an opportunity for government owned GM to reclaim market share out of fear that a Toyota might suddenly accelerate on it's own.

[Darius]

Interesting repartee between JJFADS and the Kenyan.
Both positions a little on the speculative side, but interesting none the less.
I've always felt that while Toyota had problems with gas pedals and floor mats, those kinds of issues aren't uncommon with other makes.
Improper use of accellerator pedal/brakepedal is also common to all makes when UA situations are involved.
Personally,I believe the issue was blown somewhat out of proportion, and there was a fair amount of opportunism involved by many self interested parties.
I don't own a Toyota, but all things considered, I wouldn't hesitate to own one if I felt like it.
In my opinion, they are no less safe or problematic than any other car.

[Aquarius-WY]

The Skinny Kenyan wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that the US government's slapping around of Toyota was to prop up GM. GM & Chrysler have been getting their teeth kicked in by Japanese companies (particularly Toyota) for years. What better than a fabricated safety issue to thwart Toyota sales.

I see.
Trouble with that claim though, is that it all started with private law suits and not a "directive" from Washington, and this situation began long before GM and Chrysler became puppets of the feds.

[Aquarius-WY]

Darius wrote:

Interesting repartee between JJFADS and the Kenyan.
Both positions a little on the speculative side, but interesting none the less.
I've always felt that while Toyota had problems with gas pedals and floor mats, those kinds of issues aren't uncommon with other makes.
Improper use of accellerator pedal/brakepedal is also common to all makes when UA situations are involved.
Personally,I believe the issue was blown somewhat out of proportion, and there was a fair amount of opportunism involved by many self interested parties.
I don't own a Toyota, but all things considered, I wouldn't hesitate to own one if I felt like it.
In my opinion, they are no less safe or problematic than any other car.

Agreed.

[JJFADS]

@ skinny

Let the record show complaints of SUA spiking in 2002, coinciding with MY 2002 changes that included implementation of accelerator pedal sensors, a throttle control motor, and a throttle position sensor. Toyota warns that installation of a mobile radio could affect their electronic systems including the throttle control system, fuel injection, and cruise control.

Further, for the record, note those complaints exceeded complaints from all other manufacturers. Source NHTSA-

Important to note, on record and easily accessible are Toyota’s corrections to ECM programming and documentation of TSB’s fixing numerous problems with UA. Source – Toyota

Problem with Toyota’s designs included the failure to implement a brake override system. I’ve read many internet bloggers “just push the brake, it will stop the car.” Wrong, without a brake override, it will not stop the car.

At any rate, I find it very hard to suggest a so called government conspiracy took down Toyota in an effort to gain market for American manufacturers. Using that logic, the conspiracy began back in 2002 during the political turmoil that we found just after 911 and the pending invasion of Iraq.

Regardless, one thing remains constant, and that is Toyota did in fact recall vehicles for mechanical problems, not electronics. This fails to explain the anomaly that dictates Toyota’s drivers report more SUA complaints than any other manufacturer.

Further, this is only one piece of why Toyota’s US market has taken a dive. Buried under all the hoopla of Toyota’s electronics, remains the massive onslaught of their recalls. If I may suggest, Toyota wanted to play with the big boys and thought they could get away with notifying customers and circumvent the “recall” process, thus leading and preserving a perceived quality perception. After investigation and fines, they are now aware of the repercussions and must play by the same rules i.e. they must recall and make public their quality failures. Therein you will find the numerous other recalls of which, for some reason everyone would now like to forget. We must remember, Toyota has, just in the last year, recalled millions of other vehicles for everything from broken valve springs that cause catastrophic engine failure, brake failures, rust, exhaust system problems, to seat belts and everything in between.

For the record note the recent recalls:
• 2000-2004 Avalon
• 2005-2006 Avalon
• 2005-2010 Avalon
• 2007-2010 Camry
• 2005-2008 Corolla
• 2009-2010 Corolla
• 2004-2006 Highlander
• 2008-2010 Highlander
• 2005-2008 Matrix
• 2009-2010 Matrix
• 2004-2007 Prius
• 2004-2009 Prius
• 2010 Prius
• 2009-2010 RAV4
• 2003 Sequoia
• 2008-2010 Sequoia
• 1998-2010 Sienna
• 2011 Sienna
• 2005-2010 Tacoma
• 2007-2010 Tundra
• 2009-2010 VENZA

[JJFADS]

Note: Lexus and Scion models are excluded from the list. It's just to long and devastating to include the "Perfect" Lexus models.

[Thought For The Day]

Good post JJFADS.
I don't agree with everything you've said, but you said it well.
Fair enough.

[JJFADS]

Thought For The Day wrote:

Good post JJFADS.
I don't agree with everything you've said, but you said it well.
Fair enough.

Thank you sir.

For the record, let me state the following. I could care less what happens to Toyota, or GM, or Hyundai for that matter. Although I will say watching the Toyota debacle unfold has been entertaining to say the least. I do this for fun and in attempt to stay and keep people on their toes so to speak. Fighting about which maker is better is nonsense. They all make cars that are leaps and bounds above what was available even a few years ago. Further, being “the biggest” is a misconception as well. The only thing that matters in this industry is when you go before the board and answer that ominous question “how much money did you make?”

[Aquarius-WY]

JJFADS wrote:

<quoted text>Thank you sir.
For the record, let me state the following. I could care less what happens to Toyota, or GM, or Hyundai for that matter. Although I will say watching the Toyota debacle unfold has been entertaining to say the least. I do this for fun and in attempt to stay and keep people on their toes so to speak. Fighting about which maker is better is nonsense. They all make cars that are leaps and bounds above what was available even a few years ago. Further, being “the biggest” is a misconception as well. The only thing that matters in this industry is when you go before the board and answer that ominous question “how much money did you make?”

So, all that being said ... what do you drive?

[Thought For The Day]

JJFADS wrote:

<quoted text>Thank you sir.
For the record, let me state the following. I could care less what happens to Toyota, or GM, or Hyundai for that matter. Although I will say watching the Toyota debacle unfold has been entertaining to say the least. I do this for fun and in attempt to stay and keep people on their toes so to speak. Fighting about which maker is better is nonsense. They all make cars that are leaps and bounds above what was available even a few years ago. Further, being “the biggest” is a misconception as well. The only thing that matters in this industry is when you go before the board and answer that ominous question “how much money did you make?”

You and I are on the same wavelength as regards being neutral about all automakers.
I also agree completely that automakers today are building products that are light years ahead of previous generations.
I truly beieve the more players means greater competition in the game, and that bodes well for all of us.
Development of more efficient production methods, better materials, more capable electronics, better and more energy efficient propulsion systems, less pollution, etc. are all good things.
Developments have been phenomenal in the past decade, and I'm sure we're going to see that trend go exponential within the next decade.
And all of that is, and will be because of competition.
Bring it on!!

[JJFADS]

Aquarius-WY wrote:

<quoted text>
So, all that being said ... what do you drive?

Would rather not disclose the amount or type of vehicles we own. Even if I did, you would probably not believe it. If you’re looking for origins, we own American and European.

[JJFADS]

Thought For The Day wrote:

<quoted text>
You and I are on the same wavelength as regards being neutral about all automakers.
I also agree completely that automakers today are building products that are light years ahead of previous generations.
I truly beieve the more players means greater competition in the game, and that bodes well for all of us.
Development of more efficient production methods, better materials, more capable electronics, better and more energy efficient propulsion systems, less pollution, etc. are all good things.
Developments have been phenomenal in the past decade, and I'm sure we're going to see that trend go exponential within the next decade.
And all of that is, and will be because of competition.
Bring it on!!

Agree