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barry

Rainsville, AL

#952 Sep 23, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you are imposing your religious beliefs on your employees.
How do you explain minimum wage?
if i don't pay minimum wage i don't have any employees. in fact if i pay minimum wage i won't have very many employees and the ones i get won't be very good or won't last very long. minimum wage is really not necessary. the free market takes care of that problem.
gossamer

Warren, MI

#953 Sep 23, 2012
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
What I do or don't do is none of your fricking business ya catholic idiot freak.
Not a Catholic.

Having sex and wanting me to pay for you to not get pregnant is my business.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#954 Sep 23, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is talking about a person. We're talking about a business. BTW, the business ALREADY offers the benefit; a prescription plan. What they are doing is discriminating against one legal medication also used to treat a valid medical condition, based SOLELY upon a religious objection to ONE use of said medication. Which imposes religion on the employees, and that is unconstitutional.
why do you assume that it must be a religious objection? if i own a restaurant and don't offer alcohol as a choice of beverage, must that be a religious objection? if my health care plan does not cover dental work would you consider that it must be a religious objection? some health care plans don't cover pregnancy, only complications that may result from the pregnancy or the birth. would that be a religious objection? can one be against something without being religious?

now that being said i would agree that if the medication was a valid medication for another medical condition and if it was the best option that it should be covered. but really how many people are you arguing about. that probably already exists in most policies that don't cover birth control.
God Is The Only Choice

Painesville, OH

#955 Sep 23, 2012
gossamer wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Catholic.
Having sex and wanting me to pay for you to not get pregnant is my business.
They ALWAYS assume, always.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#957 Sep 23, 2012
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too, Morgana. By the time I was in my twenties, however, I had kicked the toxic baggage of the RCC to the curb, and never had one second of regret for doing so.
Isn't it great to have our OWN power to make individual sexual and reproductive decisions, instead of allowing the RCC to dictate them FOR us?
For ME, secularism = FREEDOM. No dogmas required.
"freedom isn't free." time you took ownership of your freedom.

“Proud To Be An American”

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#958 Sep 23, 2012
There seems to be a number of devote atheists on this forum...I thought on Sunday they slept all day?
serfs up

Kissimmee, FL

#959 Sep 24, 2012
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
You can learn to kiss my royal Irish azz.
That royal irish azz might be out in the streets doing personal services within a decade if our economy keeps tanking. And depending on your looks, your life might not be worth squat. Bwhaaa! I love when nations die because it is deserved. We will never make a movie about the people in Germany again and other nations after this is over. tha tis because people in other nations will be laughing at us and calling us hypocrites. They will be making movies about us. enjoy the years left Morgana.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#961 Sep 24, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>if i don't pay minimum wage i don't have any employees. in fact if i pay minimum wage i won't have very many employees and the ones i get won't be very good or won't last very long. minimum wage is really not necessary. the free market takes care of that problem.
Way to avoid the point.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#962 Sep 24, 2012
gossamer wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Catholic.
Having sex and wanting me to pay for you to not get pregnant is my business.
Viagra is covered under prescription healthcare coverage, why not bitch about that you anti woman misogynist freak? I don't want to pay for you having sex either.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#963 Sep 24, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>why do you assume that it must be a religious objection? if i own a restaurant and don't offer alcohol as a choice of beverage, must that be a religious objection? if my health care plan does not cover dental work would you consider that it must be a religious objection? some health care plans don't cover pregnancy, only complications that may result from the pregnancy or the birth. would that be a religious objection? can one be against something without being religious?
now that being said i would agree that if the medication was a valid medication for another medical condition and if it was the best option that it should be covered. but really how many people are you arguing about. that probably already exists in most policies that don't cover birth control.
That's quite a little two-step you've got going there.

I'm assuming nothing. A Catholic employer's objection to coverage of hormonal birth control, IS a religious objection. Or haven't you been reading the posts from PLers and Catholics who are claiming that making them allow coverage for birth control is a violation of the employer's freedom of religion?

Hormonal birth control IS medication used to treat a valid medical condition, and they are the number one option to do so. The medical condition is Menorrhagia, and it affects one in five women. It's also used to treat Adenomyosis, affecting fewer women, one in one hundred. In fact, the other treatmens FOR those conditions are ALSO things the RCC objects to, other forms of "artificial birth control", including sterilization by removal of the uterus.
Ocean56

AOL

#965 Sep 24, 2012
CatholicPatriot wrote:
No, you support forcing Catholic owned companies to pay for services that violate their faith.
In reality, you are not for religious freedom; you are against it.
The reality is that forcing Catholic owned companies and the United States government, the State and Local governments, and in fact, all employers, to pay for unnatural abortions and unnatural birth control is your agenda.
You insanely believe that unnatural abortion and unnatural birth control are natural rights protected by the Constitution and you will not tolerate anyone rejecting that position.
You are determined to force your insanity, your ignorant new faith, upon all of us.
No, Bitner is correct; what the government opposes is the practice of DISCRIMINATION by religious employers. You just don't want it CALLED discrimination, but that is precisely what it is.
Ocean56

AOL

#966 Sep 24, 2012
barry wrote:
"freedom isn't free." time you took ownership of your freedom.
Whatever THAT means. I DID take back my freedom, when I kicked the toxic baggage of catholicism to the curb more than 20 years ago. Now I make my OWN sexual and reproductive decisions instead of allowing a bunch of clerics in dresses to make those decisions FOR me.

For ME, secularism = FREEDOM. No dogmas required.
Stoneman

Boise, ID

#968 Sep 24, 2012
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Viagra is covered under prescription healthcare coverage, why not bitch about that you anti woman misogynist freak? I don't want to pay for you having sex either.
Try to get this into your walnut-sized cerebral cavity:

GO FIND AN INSURANCE COMPANY THAT WILL PAY FOR YOUR SCREW PILLS.

IF THERE ISN'T ONE, START ONE.

I'll find a company that isn't paying for Viagra, because I would rather not patronize a company that does.

See how easy that is? You don't need to have the gubbermint force private companies to provide you with free stuff. Just like you don't need to have the gubbermint shake down Evil Rich people to give you free stuff.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#969 Sep 24, 2012
Stoneman wrote:
<quoted text>
Try to get this into your walnut-sized cerebral cavity:
GO FIND AN INSURANCE COMPANY THAT WILL PAY FOR YOUR SCREW PILLS.
IF THERE ISN'T ONE, START ONE.
I'll find a company that isn't paying for Viagra, because I would rather not patronize a company that does.
See how easy that is? You don't need to have the gubbermint force private companies to provide you with free stuff. Just like you don't need to have the gubbermint shake down Evil Rich people to give you free stuff.
No one is talking about free stuff, so you have no point.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#970 Sep 24, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Way to avoid the point.
avoid the point? the points were that minimum wage is worthless because a free market economy will always dictate the wage. btw minimum wage will always be at the bottom of the earning scale and by raising it all you do is drive up the rest of the scale and then the cost of goods.
you were the one who tried to use it as an example of gov dictating the compensation package.
no one around here really works much for minimum wage. however there are a lot of people working without birth control in their health plan. it is an unnecessary benefit for those who want to work. if an employer felt that he would attract a better level of employees by offering it i'm sure most would.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#971 Sep 24, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>avoid the point? the points were that minimum wage is worthless because a free market economy will always dictate the wage. btw minimum wage will always be at the bottom of the earning scale and by raising it all you do is drive up the rest of the scale and then the cost of goods.
you were the one who tried to use it as an example of gov dictating the compensation package.
no one around here really works much for minimum wage. however there are a lot of people working without birth control in their health plan. it is an unnecessary benefit for those who want to work. if an employer felt that he would attract a better level of employees by offering it i'm sure most would.
No, the point is that minimum wage laws ARE the gov't regulating what a business can pay their employees. Something you have been claiming they can't do.

BC pills are not the benefit. The PRESCRIPTION PLAN is the benefit, and they are already receiving it. What Catholic employers are doing is discriminating against one legal medication that is also used to treat valid medical conditions, and doing so based SOLELY on a religious objection to one use of said medications. The gov't has every right to tell them they can't do that.
a voter

Saint Augustine, FL

#972 Sep 24, 2012
gossamer wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Catholic.
Having sex and wanting me to pay for you to not get pregnant is my business.
Well lots of people have similar arguments about obesity and their insurance costs going up for diabetes medications and bipass surgeries yet it goes into the same insurance pools so it comes out of the same pool for individual need. Sure, they don't want to pay for someone else's gluttony (also a sin!) but are we going to deny all diabetics coverage b/c someone thinks some bad behavior caused it when that's not always true? The game of the righteous and the wicked is fun! Shall we keep playing? All women pay into prostrate coverages yet have no prostrate...We could go on and on...until it's your need others are denying, you really don't care.

My insurance covers my prescription benefits so I don't currently have this problem but I wouldn't want them playing moral police to people who's needs might be objectional to someone who doesn't even know them or their medical situation.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#973 Sep 24, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
That's quite a little two-step you've got going there.
I'm assuming nothing. A Catholic employer's objection to coverage of hormonal birth control, IS a religious objection. Or haven't you been reading the posts from PLers and Catholics who are claiming that making them allow coverage for birth control is a violation of the employer's freedom of religion?
Hormonal birth control IS medication used to treat a valid medical condition, and they are the number one option to do so. The medical condition is Menorrhagia, and it affects one in five women. It's also used to treat Adenomyosis, affecting fewer women, one in one hundred. In fact, the other treatmens FOR those conditions are ALSO things the RCC objects to, other forms of "artificial birth control", including sterilization by removal of the uterus.
well i'm not catholic and i would be against offering it in a health ins plan. does that mean that it is a religious objection for me also? can't catholics and other employers just look at it as the economic cost to their business. most catholics aren't even that reliogious. stereotyping all catholics isn't really very accurate now is it?

as for your assertion that it is the #1 option for treating menorrhagia.... some would disgree with you.

Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are the first-line medical therapy in ovulatory menorrhagia.
Studies show an average reduction of 20-46% in menstrual blood flow.[16]
NSAIDs reduce prostaglandin levels by inhibiting cyclooxygenase and increasing the ratio of prostacyclin to thromboxane.
NSAIDs are ingested for only 5 days of the entire cycle, limiting their most common adverse effect of stomach upset.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/255540-...

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#974 Sep 24, 2012
a voter wrote:
<quoted text>
Well lots of people have similar arguments about obesity and their insurance costs going up for diabetes medications and bipass surgeries yet it goes into the same insurance pools so it comes out of the same pool for individual need. Sure, they don't want to pay for someone else's gluttony (also a sin!) but are we going to deny all diabetics coverage b/c someone thinks some bad behavior caused it when that's not always true? The game of the righteous and the wicked is fun! Shall we keep playing? All women pay into prostrate coverages yet have no prostrate...We could go on and on...until it's your need others are denying, you really don't care.
My insurance covers my prescription benefits so I don't currently have this problem but I wouldn't want them playing moral police to people who's needs might be objectional to someone who doesn't even know them or their medical situation.
Well said.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#975 Sep 24, 2012
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever THAT means. I DID take back my freedom, when I kicked the toxic baggage of catholicism to the curb more than 20 years ago. Now I make my OWN sexual and reproductive decisions instead of allowing a bunch of clerics in dresses to make those decisions FOR me.
For ME, secularism = FREEDOM. No dogmas required.
great, so how about letting me be free to not have to subsidize your life style choices.

just as you are free to consume large amounts of alcohol i don't want to be required to buy you a few drinks.
so if you want it covered either pay for the extra coverage yourself or just buy them yourself.
freedom isn't free.

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