Pope may intervene in 'brutal' stonin...

Pope may intervene in 'brutal' stoning case in Iran

There are 22 comments on the CNN story from Sep 5, 2010, titled Pope may intervene in 'brutal' stoning case in Iran. In it, CNN reports that:

Pope Benedict XVI is monitoring the case of an Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning and has not ruled out getting involved through diplomatic channels, the Vatican said Sunday.

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Adrian in Tacoma

Tacoma, WA

#1 Sep 5, 2010
Why stone when we have the rack & co in the basement...
mike duquette

United States

#2 Sep 5, 2010
Stoning as punishment for not following 'gods' absolute morals has a long history in the bible and Koran. Somehow secularists progressed our society from these barbaric religious beliefs. Someday all religious beliefs will be shown to be antiquated and flawed. I think the pope has the problem of his own religion instituting barbaric practices such as the inquisition and which burning to overcome before he has athority to preach of morality.
RCC Truth Squad

Granger, IN

#3 Sep 5, 2010
mike duquette wrote:
Stoning as punishment for not following 'gods' absolute morals has a long history in the bible and Koran. Somehow secularists progressed our society from these barbaric religious beliefs. Someday all religious beliefs will be shown to be antiquated and flawed. I think the pope has the problem of his own religion instituting barbaric practices such as the inquisition and which burning to overcome before he has athority to preach of morality.
Well...Secularists certainly have progressed our world alright. If you call progress efficient means of mass slaughter...and victims need only be economically non-valuable to society or deemed an enemy of the State. The horrors of the 20th Century surpassed any epoch in human history yet modern historians prefer not to assign blame where it belongs....GODLESS secular philosophies.

As for moral authority, if the Church doesn't have it...NOBODY does. To reach back to the Middle Ages for examples of cruelty is fair enough because some cruelty did occur, however, the Church was tasked with governing both temporal and spiritual realms in those times...something it was not designed to do and mistakes were made. The Pope has nothing to apologize for and your statements are the familiar facile secular propaganda which inevitably gets trotted out to bash religion and praise "progress" which is not progress at all.
Terr

Ilsede, Germany

#5 Sep 6, 2010
It is very noble.
He should make intervention by invasions in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq where crime against humanity and genocide commited by ,,Christians,, from usa and nato last from years. Did he do something in this case?
RCC Truth Squad

Granger, IN

#6 Sep 6, 2010
Terr wrote:
It is very noble.
He should make intervention by invasions in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq where crime against humanity and genocide commited by ,,Christians,, from usa and nato last from years. Did he do something in this case?
As you may remember...

John Paul II pleaded with President Bush to not invade Iraq.

As far as Afghanistan, the Pope recongnized the action as permissible under the Church's "just war" teachings....a right of a state to defend itself from an agressor (Taliban and Al Quaeda controlled Afghanistan from which the 9/11 attacks were planned and supported).
mike duquette

United States

#7 Sep 6, 2010
Truth squad,
secular atrocities should be condemned as strongly as I condemn the churches atrocities. Non of their hate philosophies should be followed or worshiped. Appologies should be made and lessons learned. My point is how can a lesson be learned by a god worshiper that reads in the bible to kill unbelievers and they are special choosen peoples?
RCC Truth Squad

Granger, IN

#8 Sep 6, 2010
I don't worship in such a Church. Christianity does not resemble what you describe. Turn the other cheek, love thy enemy, forgiveness...core Christian teachings. To throw terms such as "atrocities" around when descirbing religions is easy to do but it is simply not accurate.

Godless Secular atrocities are on a scale even beyond Islamic rooted terrorism. Hundreds of millions of people. Why lump religion(s) into this category? Sure, Islam has some problematic teachings but these are not a factor except when put into practice by extremists.

Muslims are, in my opinion, largely silent in condemning these murderous sects of Islam because they are terrified of being singled out as traitors and hunted down and murdered. I would like to see them speak out boldy and emerge from cowering before these evildoers...and I do believe that will eventually happen. These scum kill more Muslims than anyone else, after all.

My point is that we have seen that the absence of God from a belief system creates a natural power pyramid with Government filling the role at the top in some way...and it ALWAYS means tyranny and power unchecked by morality. Darkness. The results are horrific.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#9 Sep 6, 2010
Truth squad,
You are correct in saying to be careful and not allow governent to become as a god. The atrocities you are pointing to occured because of this worship of state like god. I say both are bad. Don't worship any power. This is my point. Both inevitably will go bad. Secularism is not based on worship of the state though as you imply. Dictatorship ussually does.
Not seeing how the inquisition was not an atrocity. To torture one for not believing in a specific deity 'jesus' for a thousand years is an atrocity in my moral code. It's no wonder you believe. Your ancestors were tortured into believing.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#10 Sep 6, 2010
RCC Truth Squad wrote:
<quoted text>
As you may remember...
John Paul II pleaded with President Bush to not invade Iraq.
As far as Afghanistan, the Pope recongnized the action as permissible under the Church's "just war" teachings....a right of a state to defend itself from an agressor (Taliban and Al Quaeda controlled Afghanistan from which the 9/11 attacks were planned and supported).
Understanding what Spin creates from people reporting statements of "presume", "allegedly" and "considers", among others which envelop ones mind and contorts outcomes based on heresy instead of 'innocent until proven guilty' and 'once facts are ascertained information could be shared' is Important before Casting Opinions and Doubting Human Nature vs Nurture. If the clock could be turned back in time....
RCC Truth Squad

Granger, IN

#11 Sep 9, 2010
mike duquette wrote:
Truth squad,
You are correct in saying to be careful and not allow governent to become as a god. The atrocities you are pointing to occured because of this worship of state like god. I say both are bad. Don't worship any power. This is my point. Both inevitably will go bad. Secularism is not based on worship of the state though as you imply. Dictatorship ussually does.
Not seeing how the inquisition was not an atrocity. To torture one for not believing in a specific deity 'jesus' for a thousand years is an atrocity in my moral code. It's no wonder you believe. Your ancestors were tortured into believing.
I take it you mean that we should not worship any earthly power and not to worship God. I can agree with that.

I don't think that recognition of the Authority of the Magesterium of the Church in matters of Faith amounts to "worship" of the Magesterium any more than recognition of the inspired wisdom of the Consitution of the United States would mean that our Courts are filled with judges of like wisdom. All Institutions are subject to human influence. Flawed.

The Holy Spirit can work through flawed human beings, however. Even flawed human beings with involvement in the Inquisition.

Someone has to have authority for any system to work and to last. Jesus Christ clearly, knowingly and purposefully selected Peter to tend his lambs and feed His Sheep...("You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church" & "...Do you love Me?(asked 3 times)...Feed my Sheep"). If Jesus said this...this means WE are to be lead by a Shepherd as lambs are. This requires of us a modicum of meekness and submission to authority that many people do not find appealing...mostly because it is not properly understood. Self pride often gets in the way as well.

The Inquisition did not involve a great many people. The figure of millions being tortured to death is simply a lie. The figure of 3,000 is potentially more accurate. Regardless, this is an unfortunate period of history for the Church.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#12 Sep 9, 2010
RCC Truth Squad wrote:
<quoted text>
I take it you mean that we should not worship any earthly power and not to worship God. I can agree with that.
I don't think that recognition of the Authority of the Magesterium of the Church in matters of Faith amounts to "worship" of the Magesterium any more than recognition of the inspired wisdom of the Consitution of the United States would mean that our Courts are filled with judges of like wisdom. All Institutions are subject to human influence. Flawed.
The Holy Spirit can work through flawed human beings, however. Even flawed human beings with involvement in the Inquisition.
Someone has to have authority for any system to work and to last. Jesus Christ clearly, knowingly and purposefully selected Peter to tend his lambs and feed His Sheep...("You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church" & "...Do you love Me?(asked 3 times)...Feed my Sheep"). If Jesus said this...this means WE are to be lead by a Shepherd as lambs are. This requires of us a modicum of meekness and submission to authority that many people do not find appealing...mostly because it is not properly understood. Self pride often gets in the way as well.
The Inquisition did not involve a great many people. The figure of millions being tortured to death is simply a lie. The figure of 3,000 is potentially more accurate. Regardless, this is an unfortunate period of history for the Church.
Nothing should be worshiped. Your following the bible that was written by flawed humans I see said many flawed things. I think no one is worshiping the constitution like a god. The constitution can be ammended. The bible cannot.
Down playing the inquisition and saying unfortunate for the church sadly shows no empathy for the true victims. One victim was truth. To torture into belief of false deity is evil, not unfortunate. Notice how everyone forgot how Christianity was forced into belief. If you thought your children were likely to be tortured for being atheist or pagan you would probably indoctrinate them to believe even if you knew said belief was false. A few generations later no one would know why everone believes. They may think some spirit that was holy tells them.
VICARIUS FILII DEI 666

Newton Center, MA

#13 Nov 20, 2010
wow-hoping that the beast of Revelation 13 will prevent some evil thing from happening-pffft!

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#14 Nov 21, 2010
Terr wrote:
It is very noble.
He should make intervention by invasions in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq where crime against humanity and genocide commited by ,,Christians,, from usa and nato last from years. Did he do something in this case?
He should also put MUCH effort into trying to cease gaybashings!
mike duquette

Greer, SC

#15 Nov 24, 2010
MsSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
He should also put MUCH effort into trying to cease gaybashings!
Doubt that atrocity will bother the pope.
The pope only allows his gay priests to have relations with children. It's a loophole I suppose.
Maybe if the pope acknowledged homosexuality, the priests could openly have gay relationships with adults.
Oh forgot, pope doesn't allow priests to have sex period. When will they learn this is only causing more problems? I suppose they can't learn from secular like morality and human nature.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#16 Nov 24, 2010
RCC Truth Squad wrote:
I don't worship in such a Church. Christianity does not resemble what you describe. Turn the other cheek, love thy enemy, forgiveness...core Christian teachings. To throw terms such as "atrocities" around when descirbing religions is easy to do but it is simply not accurate.
Godless Secular atrocities are on a scale even beyond Islamic rooted terrorism. Hundreds of millions of people. Why lump religion(s) into this category? Sure, Islam has some problematic teachings but these are not a factor except when put into practice by extremists.
Muslims are, in my opinion, largely silent in condemning these murderous sects of Islam because they are terrified of being singled out as traitors and hunted down and murdered. I would like to see them speak out boldy and emerge from cowering before these evildoers...and I do believe that will eventually happen. These scum kill more Muslims than anyone else, after all.
My point is that we have seen that the absence of God from a belief system creates a natural power pyramid with Government filling the role at the top in some way...and it ALWAYS means tyranny and power unchecked by morality. Darkness. The results are horrific.
RCC Truth Squad - I know I'm no religious scholar but I want to tell you I think you're a really good person. Happy Thanksgiving.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#17 Nov 24, 2010
Why doesn't the pope intervene in gaybashings? Is it because he just might think gaybashings are justified? I wouldn't doubt it.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#18 Nov 24, 2010
mike duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Doubt that atrocity will bother the pope.
The pope only allows his gay priests to have relations with children. It's a loophole I suppose.
Maybe if the pope acknowledged homosexuality, the priests could openly have gay relationships with adults.
Oh forgot, pope doesn't allow priests to have sex period. When will they learn this is only causing more problems? I suppose they can't learn from secular like morality and human nature.
mike, you're right. Speaking of loopholes - annulments are another example. Now they're saying another grounds for annulments could be that a person was not "psychologically mature". Who is, I ask?
mike duquette

Greer, SC

#19 Nov 26, 2010
RCC Truth Squad wrote:
<quoted text>
I take it you mean that we should not worship any earthly power and not to worship God. I can agree with that.
I don't think that recognition of the Authority of the Magesterium of the Church in matters of Faith amounts to "worship" of the Magesterium any more than recognition of the inspired wisdom of the Consitution of the United States would mean that our Courts are filled with judges of like wisdom. All Institutions are subject to human influence. Flawed.
The Holy Spirit can work through flawed human beings, however. Even flawed human beings with involvement in the Inquisition.
Someone has to have authority for any system to work and to last. Jesus Christ clearly, knowingly and purposefully selected Peter to tend his lambs and feed His Sheep...("You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church" & "...Do you love Me?(asked 3 times)...Feed my Sheep"). If Jesus said this...this means WE are to be lead by a Shepherd as lambs are. This requires of us a modicum of meekness and submission to authority that many people do not find appealing...mostly because it is not properly understood. Self pride often gets in the way as well.
The Inquisition did not involve a great many people. The figure of millions being tortured to death is simply a lie. The figure of 3,000 is potentially more accurate. Regardless, this is an unfortunate period of history for the Church.
Funny how theist's always downplay the inquistion.
Even if this 3,000 people murdered by the church to enforce belief, why would this number matter? Is it to low? Most people confessed to belief before they were tortured to death. 3,000 is the number that didn't confess to belief in your god, even as they were hidiously tortured.
Immagine if our government tourtured and killed this many people today to force belief in Jesus?
Hell, I might even say I believe to escape the evil Christians torture chambers.
Another point is, after a few generations of this sort of rule of forced Jesus belief, one forgets that the whole religion was just made up anyway.
Next thing you know, everyone just blindly believes.
It's just a mathmatical calculation.
The math does not lie.
Jesus belief was forced by every culture that believed it.
Sure they stopped forcing it once the majority was established by force.
After that, human nature of following the pack, took over.
mike duquette

Greer, SC

#20 Nov 26, 2010
MsSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
mike, you're right. Speaking of loopholes - annulments are another example. Now they're saying another grounds for annulments could be that a person was not "psychologically mature". Who is, I ask?
Who is the church to decide if one should marry or divorce?
Let them cast the first stone.
Or would you like to?

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#21 Nov 26, 2010
mike duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Who is the church to decide if one should marry or divorce?
Let them cast the first stone.
Or would you like to?
Mike - hey, I'm on your side. No, I don't want the situation of casting the first stone. Jesus did say no divorce, except for adultery I guess, but annulments say it was never a valid marriage to begin with. Once again, all bases are covered.

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