Health care ruling will affect us all

Health care ruling will affect us all

There are 32 comments on the CNN story from Jun 18, 2012, titled Health care ruling will affect us all. In it, CNN reports that:

Winners and losers are the natural consequence of the American legal system. In the Supreme Court, five majority votes among the nine members are enough to fundamentally change lives and legacies.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Halito

Winnemucca, NV

#25 Jun 18, 2012
Free Haboob Jobs in Winnemuca....
blaster

Charlottesville, VA

#27 Jun 18, 2012
Fools wrote:
It they don't require people to buy medical insurance, then we taxpayers are forced to pay for their treatment when the idiots wind up in hospitals!!
Check your facts, illegals have been costing so much that hospitals in mexifornia have closed down.
Your taxes have been paying for those who cant or wont for decades, this is another tax to fk you out of more money idiot!

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#28 Jun 19, 2012
Fools wrote:
It they don't require people to buy medical insurance, then we taxpayers are forced to pay for their treatment when the idiots wind up in hospitals!!
Not the taxpayers...the INSURED. Those of us who are insured pay higher premiums and higher healthcare costs to cover those who cannot or will not pay for themselves.

Think of them the way you do shoplifters. When someone shoplifts, the merchant recoups his loss by raising the prices of his products. So paying customers end up being charged more for those who steal.

It's basically the same with healthcare. When you have millions of people who are uninsured and cannot or will not pay their medical bills, the cost is then tacked on to paying customers - usually those who are insured.
harvey

Columbus, OH

#29 Jun 19, 2012
Eleanor wrote:
<quoted text>
"The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act ...(passed in 1986...) It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medica...
LOL.....Zing!
billingrehab

Pottstown, PA

#31 Jun 19, 2012
Does anyone know how hospitals treat uninsured don't pay a dime patients on the balance sheet.

Do they write off the ACTUAL costs and NOT their desired insurance company reimbursed fee?

I heard hospitals will still try write off cash or credit card paying patients as a loss, the difference between an insurance company reimburse rate and a so called cash discount. That's the problem with the health care industry there is total lack of disclosure.
Reality

Barre, VT

#32 Jun 19, 2012
billingrehab wrote:
Does anyone know how hospitals treat uninsured don't pay a dime patients on the balance sheet.
Do they write off the ACTUAL costs and NOT their desired insurance company reimbursed fee?
I heard hospitals will still try write off cash or credit card paying patients as a loss, the difference between an insurance company reimburse rate and a so called cash discount. That's the problem with the health care industry there is total lack of disclosure.
my experience is that cash patients get charged more since they are not part of the negotiated deal insurers hold over hospitals. I notice on my bills, they show the actual charge, and also what my insurer actually pays which is much less...
Eleanor

Vernon Hills, IL

#33 Jun 19, 2012
billingrehab wrote:
Does anyone know how hospitals treat uninsured don't pay a dime patients on the balance sheet.
Do they write off the ACTUAL costs and NOT their desired insurance company reimbursed fee?
I heard hospitals will still try write off cash or credit card paying patients as a loss, the difference between an insurance company reimburse rate and a so called cash discount. That's the problem with the health care industry there is total lack of disclosure.
Technically, MEDICARE is Insurance Fraud !!

A health care professional is supposed to charge the SAME FEE for the same procedure.

Charging MORE for a regular insurance payer than they accept from Medicare IS FRAUD !!

Like charging LESS for a cash paying person than what they charge FOR AN INSURED patient is also FRAUD.

Technically it comes down to OVERCHARGING an insurance company more than they would for an uninsured payer and it is an unfair practice AGAINST the insurance company (which we ULTIMATELY pay in higher PREMIUMS).

But as it is, this is another aspect of undermining the Rule of Law that seems to be the Order of the DAY.
harvey

Columbus, OH

#34 Jun 19, 2012
Eleanor wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically, MEDICARE is Insurance Fraud !!
A health care professional is supposed to charge the SAME FEE for the same procedure.
Charging MORE for a regular insurance payer than they accept from Medicare IS FRAUD !!
Like charging LESS for a cash paying person than what they charge FOR AN INSURED patient is also FRAUD.
Technically it comes down to OVERCHARGING an insurance company more than they would for an uninsured payer and it is an unfair practice AGAINST the insurance company (which we ULTIMATELY pay in higher PREMIUMS).
But as it is, this is another aspect of undermining the Rule of Law that seems to be the Order of the DAY.
There is no such thing as honest, consistent billing in the health "industry."

Which is why it should be not-for-profit and paid by a government-run, single-payer system which regulates pricing and procedures.
billingrehab

Pottstown, PA

#35 Jun 19, 2012
Eleanor wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically, MEDICARE is Insurance Fraud !!
A health care professional is supposed to charge the SAME FEE for the same procedure.
Charging MORE for a regular insurance payer than they accept from Medicare IS FRAUD !!
Like charging LESS for a cash paying person than what they charge FOR AN INSURED patient is also FRAUD.
Technically it comes down to OVERCHARGING an insurance company more than they would for an uninsured payer and it is an unfair practice AGAINST the insurance company (which we ULTIMATELY pay in higher PREMIUMS).
But as it is, this is another aspect of undermining the Rule of Law that seems to be the Order of the DAY.
I agree there should be somekind of consistency of billing but how is a practice giving a cash discount violating law. If there is no insurance company or medicare/medicade involved with that patient shouldn't the bill be between the patient and provider? I was told the average cash discount with many providers is that their upfront price is what the ask or bill insurance companies and the cash price is what they wind up getting. The only law I heard is that a hospital can't charge more than medicare/medicaid would pay if they take cash.

One of the cash services which is becoming more common is that in every major city or population area you can find a cash MRI for $500 or less and yet when insurance is involved they bill an insurance company upwards of $3000-5000 especially in the hospitals. How can the same procedure be 10 times greater in the same area.

But this is part of the problem there is not full disclosure ie upfront pricing. In any other business if your pricing/billing varied as wildly as the medical service providers you would be out of business. But with the other big part of the problem(somebody else is paying for it) it's almost a let's see what we can get out of them(INSURANCE) enviorment. Hospitals and alot of practices expand too much or too quickly and wind up being under the same financial stress as any other over built business.

Pricing would be more competitive insurance and provider wise IF competition would be encouraged but that is exactly what they don't want. It's a fixed game complete with fix and set prices/fees. It's already a psuedo government run system with employers/business funding the system instead of the government.
billingrehab

Pottstown, PA

#36 Jun 19, 2012
Eleanor wrote:
<quoted text>
We pay EITHER WAY.
Either we pat for their health insurance (cause they can't afford it) OR we pay when they get sick (and REALLY can't afford it).
I think I'd rather pay for ONE sick person, than 100 insurance policies that don't get used.
It's the insurance companies that will come out like BANDITS. <though they ALREADY DO>
I agree but that should be between the patients and providers that voluntarily chose to use insurance as the primary form of payment. If a patient choses insurance company X and they have a bad year it should be the other customers of company X that should share higher costs.

Part of the problem with the "insurance" aspect of the system is that insurance is being used for routine maintenance visits including minor stuff and not the catastrophic event or hospitalization it was ment for. Insurance companies should be selling seperate service plans just like store sells them on appliances they should sell them on your body.

What happens is everyone gets so used to minimal fees and copays with insurance that they lose sight of the costs. Sometimes it's cheaper to pay out of pocket for visits or the minor stuff than it is to pay one month's premiums. But this goes back to the lack of disclosure from insurance companies breaking down what it actually cost them for various programs.

Patients also lose sight of costs other than copays or what their employer is charging them but that's not the true cost. Someone's pay might be affected by how much their employer pays in insurance premiums. This is why full disclosure is critical when using insurance to pay for health care.
billingrehab

Pottstown, PA

#37 Jun 20, 2012
Fools wrote:
It they don't require people to buy medical insurance, then we taxpayers are forced to pay for their treatment when the idiots wind up in hospitals!!
Yes and no. Uninsured doesn't mean the tax payers must pay. Unless you have medicare or medicaid before the trip to the hospital you'll be stuck with the large chunk of the bill. I think now if the hospital accepts medicare/medicaid they can't charge more than what they would get from them on an out of pocket uninsured patient.

The hospitals might wind up eating some potential revenue and will probably in turn raise bills on others to meet their desired goals but not necessarily to pay the bills of others.

There are hospitals out there that give the uninsured a pay out of pocket deal at a discounted rate paying money UPFRONT.. Those deals are supposed to cover their costs. It's less than they would've gouged an insurance company for but it should basically cover the basic costs.

Lost money is a very ify term in corporate America. Same for hospital accounting. There are hospital out there that keep two sets of books for budgets, taxes, plans etc. But what things actually cost is difficult to say because one person might pay $10 for an aspirin and another $1 and that's for every service or supply out there. The providers keep the true cost of service a mystery.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#38 Jun 21, 2012
billingrehab wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and no. Uninsured doesn't mean the tax payers must pay. Unless you have medicare or medicaid before the trip to the hospital you'll be stuck with the large chunk of the bill. I think now if the hospital accepts medicare/medicaid they can't charge more than what they would get from them on an out of pocket uninsured patient.
The hospitals might wind up eating some potential revenue and will probably in turn raise bills on others to meet their desired goals but not necessarily to pay the bills of others.
There are hospitals out there that give the uninsured a pay out of pocket deal at a discounted rate paying money UPFRONT.. Those deals are supposed to cover their costs. It's less than they would've gouged an insurance company for but it should basically cover the basic costs.
Lost money is a very ify term in corporate America. Same for hospital accounting. There are hospital out there that keep two sets of books for budgets, taxes, plans etc. But what things actually cost is difficult to say because one person might pay $10 for an aspirin and another $1 and that's for every service or supply out there. The providers keep the true cost of service a mystery.
You speak of discounted hospital costs like you're talking about buying a used car.

First you have to understand people with no insurance usually have no money. Let's say we put 200 of them on a train and as the train is passing through your city it derails. All 200 people are critically injured. They spend months in YOUR local hospital in ICU, months in rehab, some may never walk again, many will never be productive again.

Their medical bills are hundreds of thousands of dollars EACH. None of them has a pot to piss in. Good luck collecting, even with a discount. All the facility can do is put leins against the accounts and hope each victim sues Amtrak - which could take years.

These 200 patients (and way more) pass through hospitals every single day. They go in knowing they won't pay and they come out knowing they won't pay. Most of these accounts are sold to collection agencies for pennies on the dollar; let THEM spend the extra trying to collect. The loss is the facilities - but in reality, they don't really lose because they spread that cost along to those of us who do pay.

We've come to a cross-roads where we can no longer allow this to continue. It's driving the cost of healthcare up for all of us. We have a patchwork system that is falling apart and fewer and fewer of people are finding themselves able to bear the burden. The burden isn't on the rich or the poor. It's on those of us in the middle, of which there are becoming fewer of us. As the costs continue to climb, more people will opt out of insurance. Sad, but true. Not necessarily a lack of responsibility, but a choice some have to make between a roof over their heads or healthcare.

We know what our future is looking like these days. We've been told that employment figures are NOT going to go up anytime soon, that we'll have millions of underemployed young people strapped with college debt, rest assured the cost of our daily lives is not coming down, and employers will require employees to pay more insurance costs. Healthcare will become less and less affordable to most Americans - and a lot of them will opt out.

We will be in crisis mode at that point. All because we refuse to see that if we don't fix this collectively, we will eventually suffer as individuals.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories - Health Care Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Sorry, Bernie fans. His health care plan is sho... May '16 Time again 2
News Dig at Obamacare Chelsea Clinton laments 'crush... Apr '16 too much 3
News In 2006 Video, Romney Calls Health Care Mandate... (Jun '12) Feb '16 Big Bad John Roberts 66
News House votes again to repeal health-care law (Jul '13) Feb '16 salvoz 44
News Barbour hits "RomneyCare" at health care hearing (Mar '11) Feb '16 Proud Rino 13
News Mr. Sanders needs to come clean about his healt... Jan '16 Goonsquad 5
News Sanders: American health care is already rationed Jan '16 News 2
More from around the web