President's health plan really a Trojan horse

Have you read HR 3400? Do you understand it? If you do you are more knowledgeable than Congress, since one member stated it took three days and two lawyers.

[notsofast]

I'll address one issue in Mr. McDonnells rant (see that Mr. stuff, it's called civility)
It is not the health care providers job to enforce immigration laws. Why choose one industry to play immigration traffic cop, why not public transportation, schools, churches, banks and credit card companies too? Because it's ridiculous. Health care workers should be required to provide the best heath care possible, thats it.

[Seph]

It's time for a national health program for all Americans, AKA, Medicare for All.

Physicians for a National Health Program:
http://www.pnhp.org

Let's join with the rest of the civilized world where citizens have a national program.

And let's end 8 years of costly wars of choice and bail-outs for the Wall St casinos.

[Sal Minella]

I tried to read this thing and it is unreadable for the average person. How can you rubes that are for this bill possibly be in favor of something that your own congressman/woman don't understand??
I want a 5 page consolidation of this atrocity, in language I can decipher and hold these politicians responsible for. This bill is just another way for the feds to keep you under their control.

[notsofast]

Sal Minella wrote:

I tried to read this thing and it is unreadable for the average person. How can you rubes that are for this bill possibly be in favor of something that your own congressman/woman don't understand??
I want a 5 page consolidation of this atrocity, in language I can decipher and hold these politicians responsible for. This bill is just another way for the feds to keep you under their control.

The reason the language seems so convoluted is because there are teams of lawyers pouring over this trying to figure out how the lobbying group they work for can take advantage of language that is not specific. It's a by product of lobbyists.

[Preston]

Seph wrote:

It's time for a national health program for all Americans, AKA, Medicare for All.
Physicians for a National Health Program:
http://www.pnhp.org
Let's join with the rest of the civilized world where citizens have a national program.
And let's end 8 years of costly wars of choice and bail-outs for the Wall St casinos.

We keep seeing this same silly post over and over again. It's not going to convince anyone. Why don't you start by addressing some of the points in the writers letter. Until then, only the people that read the white house marketing material will be for the plan. People that read the actual bills being proposed will not want nothing to do with this, even if it is what everyone else is doing.

[Needs vs Wants]

Sal Minella wrote:

I tried to read this thing and it is unreadable for the average person. How can you rubes that are for this bill possibly be in favor of something that your own congressman/woman don't understand??
I want a 5 page consolidation of this atrocity, in language I can decipher and hold these politicians responsible for. This bill is just another way for the feds to keep you under their control.

Sal ... Great post.

Healthcare accounts for around 17% of our economy. It seems Obama and his supporters are making this plan up as they go along. Scary stuff.

I bet if you asked Rep. Pelosi to explain the five most important features of the proposed plan, she couldn't. And, she is only two heartbeats away from being our President.

[sobeit]

You believe Glen Beck is the voice of truth how Ironic he is Over-Wealthy, Power-Hungry few you speak of that keeps feeding you lies for his own gains. He lives on his multimillion dollar Estate in New Canaan, rides in a private driven limo to work and goes to the bank laughing up his sleeve at fools like you. Wake Up Peon you are being duped.

[sobeit]

Sal Minella wrote:

I tried to read this thing and it is unreadable.

Sorry you can't read it, that is what happens when you drop out of school.

[notsofast]

Needs vs Wants wrote:

<quoted text>
Sal ... Great post.
Healthcare accounts for around 17% of our economy. It seems Obama and his supporters are making this plan up as they go along. Scary stuff.
I bet if you asked Rep. Pelosi to explain the five most important features of the proposed plan, she couldn't. And, she is only two heartbeats away from being our President.

The idea behind our government is that opposing sides are supposed to negotiate until they come up with a plan. Interpreting that as making it up as he goes is an inaccurate slant.

[No One Important]

Polling conducted from September 7 through September 13 found that 70% of voters generally trust the American people more than political leaders on important national issues. Sixty-eight percent (68%) view the federal government as a special interest group, and 71% believe that the government and big business typically work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors.

Rasmussen.

And the democrats wonder why now the nation is against them? Why their polling is terrible? Why Obama's numbers are sliding?

The more the DEMNOCRATS lurch for government control of anything, the WORSE those numbers get.

70% of EVERYONE trust THEMSELVES more than politicians.

[judgejay]

sobeit wrote:

You believe Glen Beck is the voice of truth how Ironic he is Over-Wealthy, Power-Hungry few you speak of that keeps feeding you lies for his own gains. He lives on his multimillion dollar Estate in New Canaan, rides in a private driven limo to work and goes to the bank laughing up his sleeve at fools like you. Wake Up Peon you are being duped.

So being successful means you can't take a stand on the issues? I may not agree with Mr. Beck on much but one thing I do agree with him on is that our government is corrupt. Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They piss away our tax dollars and represent themselves more than the people who vote them in. Power corrupts and they are all in it for the same thing.THEMSELVES!!

[No One Important]

56% of the ENTIRE NATION is against this health care reform.

That's a higher percentage than the percentage he won by.

Think about that. It's a HIGHER percentage than Obama won the election by.

That means, he's hemmoraging people that SUPPORTED him. No surprise there. It's been coming for a long time.

Seniors, independents, moderates, they're all abandoning the democrats and Obama.

While many credit or blame the town hall protests for building opposition to the plan, it appears they were simply a reflection of public opinion rather than a creator of it. This sense is confirmed by the fact that Obama’s approval ratings fell more in June and July before stabilizing in August.

Rasmussen.

And now Pelosi is out there blathering and blubbering about "high heat" in the rhetoric and trying to claim this kind of opposition isn't good.

Because, they're losing the debate. So now she's out there blubbering.

Shut up and go away Pelosi. You're equating the public oposition with some psycho that killed Milk is obscene.

Is there no sewer you won't stoop to in order to deamonize those that disagree with you? First it was swaztikas, then it was "villans" of insurance companies, and now your blubbering about "violence".

It was a pro life protester that was killed. It was a health care opponent that got his finger bitten off at a rally....

YOU, Pelosi, are the idiot that has been blathering hateful rhetoric.

The nation just doesn't want what you're pushing. Plain and simple.

GET OVER IT. Go back to the drawing board. The nation is saying NO.

And while you're rushing to chastise Joe Wilson, HOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF CHARLES RANGEL....the tax cheat.

And TURN THE WATER ON TO THE FARMS IN THE VALLEY IN CALIFORNIA.

You've killed 7 bills introduced to turn the water back ON to those farmers.

The WATER IS STILL RUNNING TO YOUR VINEYARD in California.

But you've shoved people into food lines, they wait 6 1/2 hours in line for food, because you've shut the WATER off to save some stupid SMELT. You are causing your OWN human atrocity in the nation.

Should we ask are YOU really the kind of person we should have in charge of our health care?

Someone that ARBITRARILY TURNS OFF WATER? And will willingly starve your own people in the nation? To save a SMELT?

[Dave Robertson]

Nobody is entitled to health insurance, whether provided by private carrier or paid for with tax dollars. It's a privilege for those who can afford it and choose to buy it, as 80% of Americans do. Emergency medical care is available to everyone, no matter their ability to pay, as mandated by federal law.

This issue is not a matter of health care at all. It's about power. Federal power. And like the majority of Americans, I oppose granting more power to the federal government.

[Abaddon]

No One Important wrote:

56% of the ENTIRE NATION is against this health care reform.
That's a higher percentage than the percentage he won by.
Think about that. It's a HIGHER percentage than Obama won the election by.
That means, he's hemmoraging people that SUPPORTED him. No surprise there. It's been coming for a long time.
Seniors, independents, moderates, they're all abandoning the democrats and Obama.
<quoted text>
Rasmussen.
And now Pelosi is out there blathering and blubbering about "high heat" in the rhetoric and trying to claim this kind of opposition isn't good.
Because, they're losing the debate. So now she's out there blubbering.
Shut up and go away Pelosi. You're equating the public oposition with some psycho that killed Milk is obscene.
Is there no sewer you won't stoop to in order to deamonize those that disagree with you? First it was swaztikas, then it was "villans" of insurance companies, and now your blubbering about "violence".
It was a pro life protester that was killed. It was a health care opponent that got his finger bitten off at a rally....
YOU, Pelosi, are the idiot that has been blathering hateful rhetoric.
The nation just doesn't want what you're pushing. Plain and simple.
GET OVER IT. Go back to the drawing board. The nation is saying NO.
And while you're rushing to chastise Joe Wilson, HOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF CHARLES RANGEL....the tax cheat.
And TURN THE WATER ON TO THE FARMS IN THE VALLEY IN CALIFORNIA.
You've killed 7 bills introduced to turn the water back ON to those farmers.
The WATER IS STILL RUNNING TO YOUR VINEYARD in California.
But you've shoved people into food lines, they wait 6 1/2 hours in line for food, because you've shut the WATER off to save some stupid SMELT. You are causing your OWN human atrocity in the nation.
Should we ask are YOU really the kind of person we should have in charge of our health care?
Someone that ARBITRARILY TURNS OFF WATER? And will willingly starve your own people in the nation? To save a SMELT?

It's a little early to be half in the bag. Nice all over the map rant. Write back when you're sober and have a cogent thought.

[Abaddon]

judgejay wrote:

<quoted text> So being successful means you can't take a stand on the issues? I may not agree with Mr. Beck on much but one thing I do agree with him on is that our government is corrupt. Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They piss away our tax dollars and represent themselves more than the people who vote them in. Power corrupts and they are all in it for the same thing.THEMSELVES!!

No, it means he doesn't have a right to be a demagogue and spout nonsense.

And, yes both sides care more about maintaining their power than about the citizens. Trouble is the pork (any money we don't get) is always in some other district and no one wants to vote out their own rep and whatever power they have managed to accumulate for their district.

[notsofast]

Dave Robertson wrote:

Nobody is entitled to health insurance, whether provided by private carrier or paid for with tax dollars. It's a privilege for those who can afford it and choose to buy it, as 80% of Americans do. Emergency medical care is available to everyone, no matter their ability to pay, as mandated by federal law.
This issue is not a matter of health care at all. It's about power. Federal power. And like the majority of Americans, I oppose granting more power to the federal government.

If 30% of Americans enjoy medicare/medicaid is it accurate to count them in the 80% number you are using to identify people who "buy" insurance?

[Dave Robertson]

notsofast wrote:

<quoted text>
If 30% of Americans enjoy medicare/medicaid is it accurate to count them in the 80% number you are using to identify people who "buy" insurance?

No, you're right. We should boot those freeloaders.

[No One Important]

Abbadon:

What's wrong, you don't LIKE the comparisons? Asking americans to WATCH WAT THEY DO and not listen to what they say?

Pelosi has killed 7 bills introduced to turn the water on. She still has water flowing to HER private vineyard.

Like congress wants to exempt themselves from the HC systen they'll jam on us?

So, we have a GOVERNMENT, that is STARVING people in the valley, and has arbitrarily turned off the water to save some SMELT, and now, these SAME people, that have forced workers into FOOD LINES, are trying to tell you "we won't ration your health care."

Yea, they exempt themselves from the HC bill, Pelosi refuses to allow bills to turn ON THE WATER to FARMS, but SHE has water flowing to HER PRIVATE VINEYARD...

What's a matter? You don't like people pointing out the hipocrisy of the democrats?

Are we REALLY ok with a government that shuts off water and pushes people into food lines? An area that supplies 12% of our nation's food supply?

Do you BELIEVE people that would turn off the water to farms that supply our foods when they tell you THEY WON'T RATION your HEALTH CARE?

Actions speak louder than words. Don't LISTEN to what they say, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE ALREADY DOING.

Is THIS REALLY what you VOTED FOR? Starving people, turning fertile land into dust bowls? Impacting 12% of our food supply chain?

People waiting in food lines for 6 1/2 hours?

And you want to LET THESE SAME PEOPLE CONTROL YOUR HEALTH CARE?

(Here's an idea - rather than p*ssing all our money down the drain like the democrats are doing, take a few billion, and build a desalinization plant in CA, to ensure a water supply for the farms)

The POINT is, these democrats are UGLY. They are causing a human atrocity by the government, yet out there telling you "we only have your best interests at heart."

RIGHT, do you REALLY believe them?

[Justhefacts]

Tulio,

Your “facts� are false.

You say that you’re writing about H.R. 3400. You said that the House defeated several amendments to this bill regarding coverage for illegal aliens and abortion. But according to the Library of Congress, this bill is still in committee and has had NO amendments. See http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D... :@@@L&summ2=m&|/bss/11 1search.html|.

You said that someone’s employer may put them on public option. Wrong again. Individuals and families decide which plan to subscribe to. Neither employers nor the government decide who insures you.(Note that this is the same approach taken by Massachusetts which was pushed by then Governor Mitt Romney – a Republican. Although the Republicans like and approve of the approach in MA, they hate it in Washington, D.C. Perhaps the issue is who is pushing for it?)
You claim that the IRS would be the agency determining the adequacy of your health insurance. This is completely wrong and you know it.
You say that H.R. 3200 gives the government direct access to your bank accounts. Totally wrong.
You claim that President Obama has changed the number of uninsured people that would be covered by this legislation from 48 million to 30 million. Correct – but you feigned ignorance of why. The reason is that when you remove illegal immigrants from the number of all uninsured, you’re left with 30 million uninsured (who are not illegal immigrants).

[Ignorance Is Dangerous]

You should all stop for a moment and answer this: Why are the health insurance companies sooooooo scared of this and pouring so much money into stopping it?

Do you honestly thing they are doing it for you and me? Of course not - they are scared to death that it will take $s from their profits. Plan and simple. Whenever an industry or corporation is against something you can be sure its all about $.

The fact they are running scared tells me perhaps whats being proposed is on the right track.