Radio Waves Split Water Molecule

Radio Waves Split Water Molecule

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Since: Nov 07

Asheboro, NC

#1 Nov 17, 2007
Popular Science Article

A cancer researcher using radio waves to target cancer cells stumbled upon a novel method to split water atoms into their hydrogen and oxygen component gasses using radio waves.

A research assistant noted test a tube with saline solution bubbling gas while the tube was in the path of a radio wave emitter operating at 14 megahertz. The researcher exposed the gas to an open flame and the gas stream lit. The photo in the article shows a yellow white flame coming from the mouth of the tube much like that of a propane torch. What is different about this method from run-of-the mill eletrolysis of water is the volume of gas being produced. It appears to be measurable in several liters/second rather than several liters/hour obtainable from laboratory eletrolysis equipment. Since it is not safe to store hydrogen and oxygen together because of the potential for violent explosion this method would be ideal for producing hydrogen fuel for immediate use or for storage of hydrogen after the two gasses are separated.

The article stated that the reaction was observed by others, but it did not say that the method has been duplicated. The article also did not say what the energy consumption was for the radio wave emitter. The observer surmised that the reaction may be asisted by the presence of NaCl in the solution.

So 80% the earth's surface is covered with rocket fuel and here we are burning fossilized swamp muck like a bunch of monkeys. Somebody has a sense of humor.

Since: Nov 07

Asheboro, NC

#2 Nov 18, 2007
This is the link to that article.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/4121ddb2...
truthist

Katy, TX

#3 Nov 18, 2007
Is this what Tesla knew?

“Gun toting liberal”

Since: Nov 07

Wilmington

#4 Nov 18, 2007
Tesla is a car manufacturer who makes plug-in battery powered vehicles. The sports version is out now (I think Jay Leno has one), and a sedan is coming soon. No hydrogen power at Tesla.

Since: Nov 07

Asheboro, NC

#5 Nov 18, 2007
What I mean by "immediate use" for example is that the hydrogen and oxygen mixture could be produced on board a car while it is running and fed directly into the intake manifold for burning in an internal combustion engine. The only amount stored would be the amount in the manifold lines. Prior to the conversion fuel would be stored as salt water in a tank.

Because of the laws of thermodynamics there are some challenges that probably shoot this particular use in the butt. Water can only be split by providing two electrons for the freed hydrogen atoms to use to replace the two electrons shared with the oxygen atom in a water molecule. These two electrons are the useable heat energy released when oxygen and hydrogen are burned together. When they are burned the two electrons are released as heat energy and the hydrogen and oxygen come back together as a water molecule. Simply put, two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen have 10 electrons when they are separate atoms, but when they are combined (burned) to form a water molecule they have only 8 electrons. The two electrons released are the heat of the flame.

In this novel method of using radio waves, the two electrons put in to the reaction for splitting of the water molecule come from the radio wave which was produced from an electric current (electrons produced at a power plant in this case). So to produce hydrogen on board a car you would have to produce electrons at least equal to the number being used to split the water molecule (actually due to inefficiency of the process of conversion it would need more electrons than would be used to split the water molecule). So another source of power is needed on board the car to produce the energy to be used. The energy is stored for use in the form of electrons by the hydrogen atom much like a battery and released when burned.

The keys to use this process are to use "free" energy to produce the electrons needed to split the water molecule and to store the hydrogen produced. If you used a photovoltaic system to provide the electrons you could produce hydrogen without using power from the grid. However batteries may be a more efficient way to store the electrons generated and an electric motor may be much more efficient than an internal combustion engine at using those electrons to run a car.
rjpc

Saint Paul, MN

#6 Nov 26, 2007
truthist wrote:
Is this what Tesla knew?
Tesla, Keely, and Edward Leedskalnin all did quite a few things with radio waves so it is quite possible that one of them knew about it. The one that I read split water is Keely.
Norbo Norebo

Morristown, NJ

#7 Dec 22, 2007
Machiavellian machinations of the robber barons are still here.
They are kept in place by a climate of economic fear.
They keep oil companies in power and detractors they smear.
For many believed a vehicle using water for fuel an impossible dream.
The powers that be want to keep it that way it would seem.
For water powered cars though few are already here.
But they keep them out of public view by using fear.
Norbo Norebo

Morristown, NJ

#8 Dec 22, 2007
Machiavellian machinations of the robber barons are still here.
They are kept in place by a climate of economic fear.
They keep oil companies in power and detractors they smear.
For many believe a vehicle using water for fuel as an impossible dream.
The powers that be want to keep it that way it would seem.
For water powered cars though few are already here.
But they keep them out of public view by using fear.
Screenmutt

United States

#9 Mar 12, 2008
Kimbefly wrote:
Tesla is a car manufacturer who makes plug-in battery powered vehicles. The sports version is out now (I think Jay Leno has one), and a sedan is coming soon. No hydrogen power at Tesla.
Tesla was a brilliant electrical mastermind. The car manufacturer uses his name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

“Gun toting liberal”

Since: Nov 07

Wilmington

#10 Mar 12, 2008
Screenmutt wrote:
<quoted text>
Tesla was a brilliant electrical mastermind. The car manufacturer uses his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
Thanks for the info. I learned about the car company first.
Dan Neal

Columbus, OH

#11 May 7, 2008
The Next Big Thing wrote:
What I mean by "immediate use" for example is that the hydrogen and oxygen mixture could be produced on board a car while it is running and fed directly into the intake manifold for burning in an internal combustion engine. The only amount stored would be the amount in the manifold lines. Prior to the conversion fuel would be stored as salt water in a tank.
Because of the laws of thermodynamics there are some challenges that probably shoot this particular use in the butt. Water can only be split by providing two electrons for the freed hydrogen atoms to use to replace the two electrons shared with the oxygen atom in a water molecule. These two electrons are the useable heat energy released when oxygen and hydrogen are burned together. When they are burned the two electrons are released as heat energy and the hydrogen and oxygen come back together as a water molecule. Simply put, two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen have 10 electrons when they are separate atoms, but when they are combined (burned) to form a water molecule they have only 8 electrons. The two electrons released are the heat of the flame.
In this novel method of using radio waves, the two electrons put in to the reaction for splitting of the water molecule come from the radio wave which was produced from an electric current (electrons produced at a power plant in this case). So to produce hydrogen on board a car you would have to produce electrons at least equal to the number being used to split the water molecule (actually due to inefficiency of the process of conversion it would need more electrons than would be used to split the water molecule). So another source of power is needed on board the car to produce the energy to be used. The energy is stored for use in the form of electrons by the hydrogen atom much like a battery and released when burned.
The keys to use this process are to use "free" energy to produce the electrons needed to split the water molecule and to store the hydrogen produced. If you used a photovoltaic system to provide the electrons you could produce hydrogen without using power from the grid. However batteries may be a more efficient way to store the electrons generated and an electric motor may be much more efficient than an internal combustion engine at using those electrons to run a car.
While I agree with the issue of Losing electrons via the law of Thermodynamics. Perhaps This method Coupled with a Catalyst namely Rubippy aka Ruthenium tris(bipyridine)chloride, Might produce the effect that we need for endless energy.
Rubippy would act as a catalyst and REDUCE the energy needed to split the Water Molecule from its original 473 kJ to a more modest rough est. 350 kJ.
Now with newer fuel cells producing an astounding power output of more than 580 kJ
That certainly does seem like a a viable option for splitting a water molecule, and producing energy.
I am curious as to the real world numbers of how much energy it takes to produce the Radio wave VS how much Actual "Burnable" Hydrogen is produced.
ie a study released in kJ/mole.

“Therefore, CHOOSE ...”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#12 May 7, 2008
The Next Big Thing wrote:
So 80% the earth's surface is covered with rocket fuel and here we are burning fossilized swamp muck like a bunch of monkeys. Somebody has a sense of humor.
or, a LOT better business sense. ;-p

free energy? hmmm....nobody's getting rich on that, kill it.
jeremy p

Pooler, GA

#13 Jun 12, 2008
I don't know how much power it would take to produce the radio waves but aircraft are equipped with an HF radio system that runs off 28VDC that can be tuned to 14 MegaHertz. Surely a 12vdc to 28vdc inverter could step up the voltage, but 14 Mhz is dangerous to be in front of. Aircraft HF systems can reach hundreds of miles. I wonder how dangerous it would be if you were transmitting it out of the trunk of your car?
Anytime Hombre

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#14 Jun 12, 2008
sounds pretty much like a scientific news!
i made a few electrolysis torchs and i think this is realizable and cheap. it could change completely the energy sources landscape, i start the research right now because that is a scientific fact and i know how it could be mecanically done with cheap components. the split is made exciting either the hidrogens or the oxigen. the problem could be that once started it seems like chain reaction to me, so it might be somehow 'volatile' you know
Norbo Norebo

Manville, NJ

#15 Aug 7, 2008
The Foil By Oil
What's Hid & Forbid

By Norbo Norebo

Last year on Russert's Meet The Press show.
The white house chief of staff did go.
Russert asked him if the president would go.
To car manufacturers and ask them to show.
Cars getting more miles per gallon on the go.
The chief of staff radiated a reddish glow.
In a garble of wordy words simply said,"No."
Voracious consumption begs a task.
Which are some hard questions to ask.
Where did those fuel saving schemes of the 70's go.
Is Pogue's 25 mile a pint carb. hidden in Canadian snow?
Or the 70's Texas guy's modification of the same?
For resisting buy outs they put him out of the game.
Heard it was an overdose, like a pellet of lead.
When somebody accidentally shot him in the head.
Also what happened to Ralph Moody's Ford capri car.
At 84 miles per gallon it would go extremely far.
And it even exceeded the E.P.A. specs.
Does it sleep as junk with other wrecks?
It was not fiction with its conservative fuel flow.
It was even on the old Johnny Carson show.
Mort Shultz of Popular Mechanics tested it out.
And verified 84 miles per gallon with a shout.
He also put it in writing with more than a note.
It can be found in a published article he once wrote.
P.M. wrote articles how to make your own hybrid car.
So you would save fuel and be able to go very far.
So now where are all those fuel saving schemes?
Did palm grease turn them into forgotten dreams?
On the president's State Of The Union Show.
He made a statement that made my ire grow.
That to oil this country is really addicted.
And with high fuel consumption we are afflicted!
If thats where we stand and thats where its at..
A good question to ask is, "Who's fault is that?"
Back in the 70's oil shortage crunch.
I sat in many gas lines with a bunch.
Wrote the Energy Department at lunch.
For alternative fuels I had a hunch.
Asked about hydrogen and NASA's fuel cell.
They said it would take years and hard to tell.
Thirty years later we're in the same lousy fix.
Is thievery a euphuism for the damn oil politics?
With ex congressmen as lobbyers for oil company tricks?
Who regard their former constituents as stupid hicks?
Is there a shadow government in the global admix?
That to much greater fuel economy always says nix!
As glaciers keep melting what will be their fix?
When coastal cities all vanish with the deep six.

Author's note
I still have the article Mort Shultz wrote, along with pictures, when he tested Moody's car. Sending copies of it to papers returns silence and no printing. It makes me wonder if freedom of the press exists. Does free enterprise really exist? What are they afraid off. Other people who read the article said there probably is a shadow government, which is the real government.

This poem has been requested 5 times since 17 March 2008
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Norbo Norebo

Manville, NJ

#16 Aug 7, 2008
The Breed Of Speed In A Potion Of Motion

By Norbo Norebo

On the tapestry of eternal night.
Are countless, diaphanous, spirals of light.
In the black depths of infinite regions.
They are more numerous than scattered legions.
Through eternal black one galactic spiral makes it's spin.
As it moves at 670,000 miles an hour through the space that its in.
A giant pinwheel shaped from stars in a turning spiral swarm.
With clouds of gas and dust in motion which give it shape and form.
In the spiral's center is the turbulent, chaos of a nuclear storm.
Of nuclear fusion from which other bright objects are born.
Then from that tempestuous center they are torn.
And merged into the spiral geometry of the turning swarms.
In eons they may become a part of one of the pinwheel's projected arms.
For the huge spiral pinwheel is 120,000 light years wide.
And at it's center 60,000 light years deep on it's inside.
And the light that we see, though some are not aware.
Is from objects that are long gone and are no longer there.
For in eons of time there is entropy.
Which leads to ultimate atrophy.
One spiral pinwheel has on it's edge a medium sized star.
Which rides the curved galactic rim through distances very far.
With motion from big bang's creation that still has power.
As it moves along the galaxy's edge at 486,000 miles an hour.
And around that fusion reactor that astronomers call a star.
Is a third blue planet which also moves distances very far.
From space it looks as beautiful as any exotic flower.
As it spins around and around at close to 1,000 miles an hour.
And orbits the star at 67,000 miles an hour.
In one orbit around the star a year of space time reaches completion.
Within that duration four seasons on the planet have their repletion.
The planet's beauty comes from its hue.
Which is striking to see since the hue is blue.
And all who see it are captivated by the sight.
For the blue is streaked with water laden clouds of white.
The blue is reflected from oceans which are miles deep.
And within their depths are many secrets that they keep.
These secrets are there for the benefit of us all.
Some are less than microscopic and extremely small.
For on the bottom of some oceans is the isotope helium three.
To fuel man made reactors in a future which some can foresee.
So future generations can have a clean source of energy.
The water also contains things beyond most people's ken.
Which are water's components of hydrogen and oxygen.
Though many skeptics say it would take much energy to extract.
It's been done with far less so skeptic's statements are not exact.
What exists around us is not fiction but documented fact.
But most are not aware and live in a state of illusion.
Since most minds are riveted by soap operas and sports profusion.
But that will change when negative change comes into play.
And civilized society has to live in a primitive way.
Then all will have to treat the blue and white planet with care.
And put to use what's at our fingertips and already there.

Author's note
In space nothing stands still. We are all moving in at leas four different directions at once. And at tremendous speeds.Above this planet is a junk yard of man made debris, traveling at least 17,000 miles an hour.So anyplace in earth orbit is a dangerous place.Einstein said that one cannot feel velocity only changes in velocity.

This poem has been requested 42 times since 20 February 2008
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Michael B

La Vernia, TX

#17 Aug 10, 2008
To produce energy from water does not require splitting via radio waves. Electrical current is sufficient. Healthcare applications for radio wave splitting may exist. A concentration on catalysis of water seems to be what's needed. Water would appeaar to be the very best way to haul fuel. It is relatively unreactive and therefore safe, and it is readily available. The key is finding the best onboard hydrogen oxygen gasses extraction method that is energetically favorable. My understanding is that the amount of energy required for electrolysis is higher than the amount produced in combustion. A catalyzed electrolysis reaction that reduced the energy required for splitting water into diatomic hydrogen and diatomic oxygen would solve a great many energy problems.

On a very cursory observation of hearsay information on rubippy, it doesn't look like the right catalyst for a direct, onboard, catalyzed electrolysis of water. Rubippy is said to be unstable, poisonous, and carcinogenic. Understanding the geometry of this molecule, however, should give rise to alternative catalysts candidates. A mechanical engineer's analysis of the bond forces should greatly assist chemists in understanding the catalytic properties of this molecule's effect on H2O.
th3m43

Mchenry, IL

#18 Aug 17, 2008
although i am not sure of the energy consumption of any of these methods, i do believe that Michael Faraday has a solution for the stray radio waves if that is indeed the best method. can hydrogen that has been set through a fuel cell still be burned?
Jedi Engineer

South Weymouth, MA

#19 Aug 27, 2008
I think all of you are on to something brilliant... so far as it has been proven, the hydrogen-oxygen bond does require less energy to break than you receive when recombining. However- there have been great advances in brown's gas generation- you should look into it. I firmly believe that hydrogen used for electrical generation is the key to "free energy" so to speak. Just look at our sun... it fuses and fissions hydrogen all the time... keeps radiating too. Granted, its large scale... but what was its principal fuel? ;-)
Jedi Engineer

South Weymouth, MA

#20 Aug 27, 2008
Oh- and by the way- for those of you wondering about how much it takes to drive a 14MHz transmitter- sure it can be dangerous, but... its really just above an AM and just below an FM radio frequency.. AM ranges from 400 KHz to about 1800 KHz and FM is 88MHz to 108 MHz. Technically, you could go to a radio shack and buy a transmitter, and re-build the antenna to focus the waves... another thing worth looking into.

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