Expert: We must act fast on warming

Expert: We must act fast on warming

There are 28468 comments on the Kansas.com story from Sep 24, 2008, titled Expert: We must act fast on warming. In it, Kansas.com reports that:

Droughts, melting ice caps and glaciers, rising sea levels and mass extinctions will all be a reality unless the U.S. and the world cut back on carbon emissions dramatically, said James Hansen, director of ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Kansas.com.

Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#26875 Apr 27, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
Interesting conversation. All I have to offer is that I perceive various factors contribute to the cycles of the past few Billon years. One strong contender is the distributions of the continents from their original super continents, as well as the super continents positions to polar regions. Sub categories of Volcanisms from standard volcanoes to super volcanoes had temporary radical effects on the world temperatures. Consider where the continents were when earth became snowball earth and when it became tropical earth. Gasses had a part as well. Although just to say CO2 is responsible is not accurate. Times were when CO2 was the dominate gas to the atmosphere. Both in tropical and ice age scenarios. Observe as a volcano spews its CO2, to our present day atmosphere, a cooling trend follows. I know reflecting sunlight by the clouds but then we are left with how did the earth cast off its highly reflective snow shield to become warmer.{Volcanism in hand with continental drift } Keep in mind at that time there was no free oxygen. CO2, Nitrogen, and Sulfur would have been the dominate gasses. Sun activity at that time was less than present. Presence in the orbital plain, of our solar system traveled through the Milankovitch Cycles and the processions of the wobbling earth also occurred for numerous times without effect on the snowball. Several millions of years frozen going through all of these sub categories of effects. It was not until the continents combined with the Volcanism did the snowball melt. Note first super continent had greater mass south of the equator as with the second break up, More evenly distributed, less than Artic, where ocean currents have a major roll in its existence. Where as the continent in the anti-artic is an insulating factor to the ice melt, that has been increasing. Giving to a lower rise to a tropical earth than past rapid accelerations between Ice and Tropics. Which according to the cycles is what we are approaching. As to man made Tara-forming by humans there are sciences presently addressing these issues and “IF” we can actually use them to say Tara-form Mars. Estimates presently are 200 to 400 years to inject various gases to retain an atmosphere. At 1/6 the earths gravity, this could prove to be a difficult continuous cycle for replenishment. LOL an Industrial planet?“If” we have achieved that Tara-forming ability with our industrial age, than with Mars we could have a chance. Now that would be an interesting experiment. How to distribute the H2O and the land masses as well as the various gases to make it sustainable for humans or not…
I agree with your idea of geologic movement producing different climates. And that's different climates from only geologic movement, each time the continents moved, so did the ocean circulations.

The facinating thing about climate is how many different manifestations there are depending on the individual values of each of the climate functions.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26876 Apr 27, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, the Milankovitch Cycles are not a player in 30 years of warming. Or the 160 years of warming since the end of the LIA.
They are important if you are exploring the possibility of an extended holocene. Our interglacial started during the fall precession, had a full winter precession and is now moving into spring.
It is the beginning of spring in declining obliquity and eccentricity cycles. Glaciation will follow the low eccentric cycle.
So, it does not explain the current warming. Thanks.
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#26878 Apr 28, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
So, it does not explain the current warming. Thanks.
The current warming is likely due to 100 molecules of CO2 Man has introduced into the air thus explaining the lack of cooling that science models predicts without AGW.
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#26879 Apr 28, 2013
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#26880 Apr 28, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
lyin brian doesn't agree with you.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#26881 Apr 28, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
Read "Fallen Angels".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_ (science_fiction_novel)
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#26882 Apr 28, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> Read "Fallen Angels".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_ (science_fiction_novel)
Wow, thanks for the link!!!
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#26883 Apr 28, 2013
After years of studying every denier argument, researching them, and giving them their day in court, I find there is no point in going further. They all fall apart.

And diversions and smokescreens off to the side are just tactical distraction.

People who deny it isn't happening or that man isn't the cause aren't worth arguing with.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#26884 Apr 28, 2013
There are no experimental tests of climate change mitigation; that's how you can tell it's a hoax.
litesong

Everett, WA

#26885 Apr 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="lyin' brian"]...... that's how you can tell.......[/QUOTE]

"lyin' brian" could never tell its science & mathematics teachers the true answers. That is why "lyin' brian" has no science or mathematics degrees, & no science & mathematics for its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

#26886 May 2, 2013
Here is a suggestion for those that realize we are in an ever increasing runaway Hot House Planet.
FUN Facts; Agree that cost per serving of energy is increased. In time it will come to adjust. Remember when a computer was of vacuum tubes and three stories high and a block long? Then came the transistors! WOW we could carry in the palm of our hand a mathematical calculator. Transistor radios began to flourish. Rumors had it, soon we would have computers! Unbelievable! Yet here we are. Even in those days their were the reluctant skeptical. Evolution of technology never even paused to explain it to them, as they were soon to be their consumers.
Green is only going to get Greener. How about starting a small garden. Discover its enjoyment in simply observing its growth with just a little bit of Solar and love.
Recycle here has been made all but a law. Perhaps soon to be. My pet peeve that I focus on to recycle is PLASTICS! I do as well on other substances as they enter my realm. Hmm will our land fields soon to become a source for raw materials?
Now another part of this garden can also be; start collecting by bits. Nibbles, bite size Green energy systems. Electric battery powered lawn mower, weed whackers, air blowers, bicycles or someday an EV. Now if only you had a couple of solar panels hanging around to charge these new toys. LOL making your own fuel ! Wonder if they will pass a law making that bootlegging Moonshine or perhaps now it will be Sunshine.
Hmmm two ways to go gardening. Both require attention and patience in its acquirement and production. Once your garden settles in and does start to produce you may soon come to find, that after just a few years your gardens are producing more than you can consume.
All of this with far less of a CO2 footprint left behind for our children to follow.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#26887 May 2, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
Here is a suggestion for those that realize we are in an ever increasing runaway Hot House Planet.
FUN Facts; Agree that cost per serving of energy is increased. In time it will come to adjust. Remember when a computer was of vacuum tubes and three stories high and a block long? Then came the transistors! WOW we could carry in the palm of our hand a mathematical calculator. Transistor radios began to flourish. Rumors had it, soon we would have computers! Unbelievable! Yet here we are. Even in those days their were the reluctant skeptical. Evolution of technology never even paused to explain it to them, as they were soon to be their consumers.
Green is only going to get Greener. How about starting a small garden. Discover its enjoyment in simply observing its growth with just a little bit of Solar and love.
Recycle here has been made all but a law. Perhaps soon to be. My pet peeve that I focus on to recycle is PLASTICS! I do as well on other substances as they enter my realm. Hmm will our land fields soon to become a source for raw materials?
Now another part of this garden can also be; start collecting by bits. Nibbles, bite size Green energy systems. Electric battery powered lawn mower, weed whackers, air blowers, bicycles or someday an EV. Now if only you had a couple of solar panels hanging around to charge these new toys. LOL making your own fuel ! Wonder if they will pass a law making that bootlegging Moonshine or perhaps now it will be Sunshine.
Hmmm two ways to go gardening. Both require attention and patience in its acquirement and production. Once your garden settles in and does start to produce you may soon come to find, that after just a few years your gardens are producing more than you can consume.
All of this with far less of a CO2 footprint left behind for our children to follow.
Yes, I remember when computers were buildings with elevated floors and climate control. I don't understand your connection to global warming.

My position is that climate change is the result of natural variability. Yes, man can impact climate in a limited manner in localized regions. A reservoir will change the surrounding climate a bit. Deforestation has climate impact. Irrigation also impacts local weather.

I have been posting about solar activity. I think based on my reasearch that our sun will go into very low activity and as a result our temps will cool. The cooling is expected to last at least thru this and the next two solar cycles.

This is part of the sun's pattern of activity. The pattern is based on historical observations and the barycentric orbit of the sun in relation to the earth's orbit.

2012 was the year designated by some solar physicists as the year we would notice the beginning of the climate change.

We will see.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#26888 May 2, 2013
I claim, if you let them restrict your CO2 emissions while temperatures are rising, they are certain to restrict the amount of CO2 you can take from the air with your plants when it cools. I'm warning you...
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

#26889 May 2, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I remember when computers were buildings with elevated floors and climate control. I don't understand your connection to global warming.
Fun Facts, Reread what I stated. It was for those that conceives that our present climate warming is man made.“IF” that were true than we have entered into the realms of Tera-Forming capabilities. Thus by reducing the CO2 footprints would actually cause the cooling of our planet. Given it would take about 20 years before any measurement would be significant enough to measure.
{Barcentric?} Measurement of pressure? Earth Orbits Sun Not the Sun orbiting Earth. Sun Orbit’s the Galaxy center. If you are referring to Sun Spots their cycle is 11 years. Those have only been examined for less than 200 years. In the early years they were less accurate than accurate.
“IF” you are referring to the midpoint in the evolution of our 10 Billion life cycle of the Sun? Give or take a couple of years.
As to the sun’s evolution dimming we can estimate that would be in the millions of years if not billions. Which returns us to the question; if the cooling cycle is what we are supposed to be in. Then why are we warming?
Notice the Islands in the Pacific Ocean are presently experiencing rising ocean levels. Causing some to migrate to higher grounds. Keep in mind the recent Atlantic Ocean levels and the effects of storm surges on the east coast. New York or a more striking example in Norfolk Virginia where seacoast homes are constantly being flooded and can no longer be insured. Presently that problem is increasing into communities, in Norfolk Vig., that are further away from the coast. Even in Florida as new communities are being formed they require higher ground for construction. Some communities have actually started to make plans to move further inland. Arctic is depleting as the bears expressed that, with their migrations to land. Antarctic massive contributions of fresh water ice flows. Greenland’s diminishing Glaciers as well as Alaska, Chile, Canada, etc. etc. Which would have a braking effect on the ocean currents. Will it be enough to shut them down? Temporarily perhaps. That would contribute to the poles acquiring more ice; Thus reactivating the ocean currents.“IF” that would be the case then our children would have another cycle, of currents off and on to measure. That would be interesting to see how it affects our atmospheres. Methane increases,CO2 up or down, Nitrogen, etc. etc.
Note migrations of vegetation. Southern thriving plants are replacing Northern forest, as they succumb to invasions of viruses and bacteria’s from the Southern atmospheres.
Warming trend is evident. Which leaves us with the probability that we have entered, perhaps accidentally, into tera-forming our planet to a more tropical planet. That is “IF” we are supposed to be in a cooling period. Which discredits your assertions that we do not effect our climate.
Now “IF” we are not in a cooling period, but rather in a warming period. Then your assertions could still be validated to say its not manmade. Which could then be argued that its not going to be runaway heating scenario.
Yes there is far more knowledge for us to discover. We are like the fly that has one day to comprehend what a tree is. Then establish laws for a Forest. How much more difficult it would be for our fly to comprehend the erosion of Mountains. How about all the various forests that exist? To the cosmos, we are less than that Day Fly.
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#26890 May 2, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Fun Facts, Reread what I stated. It was for those that conceives that our present climate warming is man made.“IF” that were true than we have entered into the realms of Tera-Forming capabilities. Thus by reducing the CO2 footprints would actually cause the cooling of our planet. Given it would take about 20 years before any measurement would be significant enough to measure.
{Barcentric?} Measurement of pressure? Earth Orbits Sun Not the Sun orbiting Earth. Sun Orbit’s the Galaxy center. If you are referring to Sun Spots their cycle is 11 years. Those have only been examined for less than 200 years. In the early years they were less accurate than accurate.
“IF” you are referring to the midpoint in the evolution of our 10 Billion life cycle of the Sun? Give or take a couple of years.
As to the sun’s evolution dimming we can estimate that would be in the millions of years if not billions. Which returns us to the question; if the cooling cycle is what we are supposed to be in. Then why are we warming?
Notice the Islands in the Pacific Ocean are presently experiencing rising ocean levels. Causing some to migrate to higher grounds. Keep in mind the recent Atlantic Ocean levels and the effects of storm surges on the east coast. New York or a more striking example in Norfolk Virginia where seacoast homes are constantly being flooded and can no longer be insured. Presently that problem is increasing into communities, in Norfolk Vig., that are further away from the coast. Even in Florida as new communities are being formed they require higher ground for construction. Some communities have actually started to make plans to move further inland. Arctic is depleting as the bears expressed that, with their migrations to land. Antarctic massive contributions of fresh water ice flows. Greenland’s diminishing Glaciers as well as Alaska, Chile, Canada, etc. etc. Which would have a braking effect on the ocean currents. Will it be enough to shut them down? Temporarily perhaps. That would contribute to the poles acquiring more ice; Thus reactivating the ocean currents.“IF” that would be the case then our children would have another cycle, of currents off and on to measure. That would be interesting to see how it affects our atmospheres. Methane increases,CO2 up or down, Nitrogen, etc. etc.
Note migrations of vegetation. Southern thriving plants are replacing Northern forest, as they succumb to invasions of viruses and bacteria’s from the Southern atmospheres.
Warming trend is evident. Which leaves us with the probability that we have entered, perhaps accidentally, into tera-forming our planet to a more tropical planet. That is “IF” we are supposed to be in a cooling period. Which discredits your assertions that we do not effect our climate.
Now “IF” we are not in a cooling period, but rather in a warming period. Then your assertions could still be validated to say its not manmade. Which could then be argued that its not going to be runaway heating scenario.
Yes there is far more knowledge for us to discover. We are like the fly that has one day to comprehend what a tree is. Then establish laws for a Forest. How much more difficult it would be for our fly to comprehend the erosion of Mountains. How about all the various forests that exist? To the cosmos, we are less than that Day Fly.
It just seems odd that this Complex Computer Crashing Climate can be used to Tera-form by a single adjustment of one variable to achieve any change one might desire.

For example: Turn the CO2 knob to the left, and temps will drop. Turned to the right and temps go up.
That's it... all the science academies agree, it is that simple (not to be confused with 'easy') to manipulate the most complex system science has ever attempted to comprehend.

Does that not pretty much represent the climate science community's position on Climate Mitigation?

So, is this not a reasonable point for one to say... I'm skeptical?
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#26891 May 2, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>

{Barcentric?} Measurement of pressure? Earth Orbits Sun Not the Sun orbiting Earth. Sun Orbit’s the Galaxy center. If you are referring to Sun Spots their cycle is 11 years. Those have only been examined for less than 200 years. In the early years they were less accurate than accurate.
“IF” you are referring to the midpoint in the evolution of our 10 Billion life cycle of the Sun? Give or take a couple of years.
As to the sun’s evolution dimming we can estimate that would be in the millions of years if not billions. Which returns us to the question; if the cooling cycle is what we are supposed to be in. Then why are we warming?
The sun has a barycentric orbit. The sun is impacted by the gravitational forces of all the other objects in our solar system. The sun is in the 'center' and is the largest so it's impact on everything else is greater than the impact of the other objects on the sun, but nonetheless the sun gets pulled by gravity. It moves in an orbit centered around the center of the solar system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar_syste...

The earth orbits the sun but the earth's orbit is not stationary. At various times the earth and the sun are at different distances from each other.

We have sun spot data for about 400 years. The 11 years you refer is half of the solar 22 year magnetic cycle. The sun has many cycles the 22 year is the shortest measured cycle.

Within the many cycles there are specific variations in solar activity. We have just completed what is being called a solar maximum. The last half of the 20th century had solar activity at the top 10% of all solar activity during the holocene and higher than any activity we have experienced in the last 400 years.

http://www.aanda.org/index.php...

We warmed because the sun was in lower activity during the Little Ice Age which we put the end of at about 1850. Solar activity has increased since that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sunspot_Num...

The prediction solar physicists have made is based on patterns of solar activity. It is anticipated that the sun will return to a period of lower activity for the current and next two cycles. If this occurs, then our temperatures will decline.

There is evidence the predictions are being realized. Here's a look at our current cycle as compared to the previous three cycles, cycles 21, 22, and 23, as of May 1, 2013.

http://www.solen.info/solar/images/comparison...

The sun is the earth's source of energy, but energy doesn't make climate. The oceans make the climate. The sun produces the energy and the oceans absorb that energy and distribute it throughout the system. Many systems make climate including the size of our heliosphere and the earth's magnetic field.

I don't think we'll be terra forming anything with the little we know and I don't think reducing man made CO2 will cool the planet any more than man made CO2 warmed the planet. CO2 is a player in our climate system, but a small one.

I think the warming we experienced is from natural variations. Yes fill a large space with concrete and you too can raise the temperature of the area.

But does that change the climate or the weather? I think the answer is closer than we know, we won't have to wait too long to see if the reduced solar activity trumps man made CO2.
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

#26892 May 6, 2013
Fun Fact {The sun has a barycentric orbit. The sun is impacted by the gravitational forces of all the other objects in our solar system. The sun is in the 'center' and is the largest so it's impact on everything else is greater than the impact of the other objects on the sun, but nonetheless the sun gets pulled by gravity. It moves in an orbit centered around the center of the solar system.}

Bernie {Interesting on that barycentric pressure on the orbits of elements. This implies it will additionally have an effect on the warping of space and time.
Then we could further speculate that as the universe expands; space will increase in flattening smoothing out, increasing the dispersal of the various elements from each other. Hmm Dark energy? Sorta like a gas expanding to fill its container or lack of. Now “IF” there are additional Universes orbiting our Universe than they would have a barycenteric effect to our Universe. Hmmm Is that why our Universe is more flattened out than symmetrical? Similar to our galaxies. Some start as globes then as they advance they to begin to flatten out into a galaxy spirals. Observe collisions of galaxies and the subsequent interactions and dispersals.
Various dispersals of the collision emulates a pattern dispersal as if it were impregnated onto a substrate.{Dark Matter} Not elements returns to the original source of the collision. Some in time forming globes that separate from the original collision collecting to form their own black holes and giving birth to a partial galaxy. Hmm
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

#26893 May 6, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
It just seems odd that this Complex Computer Crashing Climate can be used to Tera-form by a single adjustment of one variable to achieve any change one might desire.
For example: Turn the CO2 knob to the left, and temps will drop. Turned to the right and temps go up.
That's it... all the science academies agree, it is that simple (not to be confused with 'easy') to manipulate the most complex system science has ever attempted to comprehend.
Does that not pretty much represent the climate science community's position on Climate Mitigation?
So, is this not a reasonable point for one to say... I'm skeptical?
It just seems odd that this Complex Computer Crashing Climate can be used to Tera-form by a single adjustment of one variable to achieve any change one might desire.

For example: Turn the CO2 knob to the left, and temps will drop. Turned to the right and temps go up.
That's it... all the science academies agree, it is that simple (not to be confused with 'easy') to manipulate the most complex system science has ever attempted to comprehend.

Does that not pretty much represent the climate science community's position on Climate Mitigation?

So, is this not a reasonable point for one to say... I'm skeptical?

Agree the Super Computers can only extirpate information that has been supplied in accordance to our present knowledge in Physics. Similar to when they predict weather patterns and discover that we still require further information with each time they prove to be in error and the amount of time that can be predicted. It is our first steps from the forest and it will take more than just a few hundred years of serious science and maturity to understand our existence in our surroundings.
CO2 is a factor but not the only factor and its interrelations with other gasses and elements. We made those knobs just as on the weather knobs. Now consider when they predict an Hurricane of the magnitude say 5 is about to hit your area. How many heed the warning and evacuate and how many do not and the results. I myself will evacuate. Even if they are wrong and misses. I can return and suggest to the weatherman to refine their information. Now if I stayed it does hit there is a good chance I will not be around to congratulate them on their knowledgeable prediction.
We can have Faith in our science or not. Personally ; They may be off the mark at times but I’ll will give it a most serious respect. Reduce my CO2 , pollution and actively seek Green Alternative systems I do presently have begun planting my gardens. Both in vegetation and solar. They way I look at it if they are wrong it wouldn’t hurt.“IF” they are correct then it would be very helpful to have my Gardens to enjoy and either scenario.
SpaceBlues

United States

#26894 May 6, 2013
Expert was RIGHT, we must act fast.

For the first time in human history, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels will surpass 400 parts per million, according Scripps Institution of Oceanography, which has been measuring carbon dioxide in the atmosphere at the Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii since 1958.

“The 400-ppm threshold is a sobering milestone, and should serve as a wake-up call for all of us to support clean energy technology and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, before it’s too late for our children and grandchildren,” said Tim Lueker of the Scripps Institution in a statement.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#26895 May 6, 2013
Human history is a blink of the eye in the life of the Earth. CO2 has been much higher in the past.

We need to emit more CO2 to bake our bread and light our way. Don't ban combustion because some luddites don't like the weather.

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