Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#176712 Aug 13, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
or i could become a internet psychiatrist and think i know every thing as you do.,,,, no i think i will stick with the facts.
When, 2050?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#176713 Aug 13, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with your supernatural knowledge claims is that many people make them in the name of incompatible beliefs. If you and another disagree, then at least one of you must be wrong.
And the funny part he hasn't considered is that those who were right could have already died out. After all, he has no idea if the Mighty Zeus is the real big daddy.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#176714 Aug 13, 2014
Christian wrote:
One of the best "realities" for those who have chosen a creation worldview is that we are not expected, nor would it be possible for us, to provide physical proof of what we have determined in our minds and in our hearts to be ultimate truth (as opposed to proof) of the life experience.
The debate is a constant " back and forth" among people who have totally different priorities based on different life experiences and personal choices.
We are not enemies unless we allow our differences to infringe on the rights of others to express their views respectfully and openly in a free society.
Anything else is not freedom.
Funny, since the other day I told you why I opposed you. You wanted to wipe out Islam in favour of Christian theocracy.
Christian wrote:
Freedom from religion opposes freedom of religion.
WRONG. For freedom FROM religion would apply to you as well, meaning you would not be imposed upon by atheists, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, or Muslims. Therefore that would mean equality for ALL. Of course what you REALLY mean is that you want freedom of religion to apply only to YOUR religion.
Christian wrote:
No one has to be a Christian. But those who are have rights that should not be infringed upon by those who are not. As in any other respectful worldview out there.
Except that Christians represent the majority of the population, yet they are in the MINORITY of those being oppressed (in the West at least). But despite the fact it's YOUR people trying to push your religion into public schools or getting Christian displays to be paid for by public Government money, you always cry martyr when others correctly point out that you're violating the First Amendment.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#176715 Aug 13, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that last sentence
I'm not sure he understands what he means by that sentence.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#176716 Aug 13, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
or i could become a internet psychiatrist and think i know every thing as you do.,,,, no i think i will stick with the facts.

Since I never once claimed to be a psychiatrist, nor have I ever claimed to know everything, I am wondering just when this "stick with the facts" is going to begin.

I think we know who has a vivid imagination.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#176717 Aug 13, 2014
Christian wrote:
One of the best "realities" for those who have chosen a creation worldview is that we are not expected, nor would it be possible for us, to provide physical proof of what we have determined in our minds and in our hearts to be ultimate truth (as opposed to proof) of the life experience.
The debate is a constant " back and forth" among people who have totally different priorities based on different life experiences and personal choices.
We are not enemies unless we allow our differences to infringe on the rights of others to express their views respectfully and openly in a free society.
Anything else is not freedom.
Freedom from religion opposes freedom of religion.
No one has to be a Christian. But those who are have rights that should not be infringed upon by those who are not. As in any other respectful worldview out there.

So you could have just accepted a complete delusion and you are okay with that.

I could not live like that. Thank God my faith is not so flimsy.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#176718 Aug 13, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And the funny part he hasn't considered is that those who were right could have already died out. After all, he has no idea if the Mighty Zeus is the real big daddy.
Or, maybe, the Kraken's redheaded stepchild, Cuthulhu could launch coup.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#176719 Aug 13, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That makes no sense at all.
Freedom of religion demands the option not to choose any religion, so must support freedom from religion.
Freedom from religion makes no demands that one must abandon religion either.
I expect you are just, as usual, setting yourself up to play the poor persecuted Christian. A favourite victim role that Christians seem to love.
Hey, Chimney. I see you've manifested a new alternate. Don't you ever get tired of arguing with yourself?

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#176720 Aug 13, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasn't.
He said "asked and answered", but all he said previously was "go look for yourself".
So it was kinda pointless him saying anything at all really.(shrug)
Well, it was kind of pointless for Robin to lead a girl on that he'd never see again...

http://pix11.com/2014/08/12/koko-the-signing-...

...but he did it anyway. Like a little humpity bumpity would've been all that bad? She was probably cleaner than the Hollwood types he had done the cha cha with.

I had to hold the tears back when I saw Koko nuzzle him. Very telling of how magnetic he was. Poor Koko, poor Robin.
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#176721 Aug 13, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
You WILL HAVE TO provide physical proof of the claims you lay upon physical phenomena.
That include: the physical universe, physical life, physical worldwide floods and the ag eof the earth.
For the rest you may dance around worshipping on your weekly seances, shouting "Hallelujah" as much as you wish.
The debate is a constant " back and forth" among people who pretend the physical world works according some random bronze age mythology and the ones who insist on science.
Even a fool has the freedom to fancy his foolishness.
But foolish it is.
The debate here is not about freedom but about the value and validity of science.
If you think that the earth is flat and the whole of the universe orbits is, that's your freedom. But it will not be allowed in the schools to be taught as valid physics.
And that choice has NOTHING to do with freedom.
Or, in other words, as you wish, you have NOT the freedom to lie and deceive and tell fantasies about reality in schools.
Schools are to teach science and other useful things like language, maths and history.
For religion we have churches and the private home.
One man's foolishness is another man' s faith.
I know (because I took the call) that a woman traveling through the county called a county office to complain about a cross she could see from the Interstate Highway.
I must say it is a BIG CROSS. IT is on church property, attached to the Christian Church within view of the interstate.
What say you?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#176722 Aug 13, 2014
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, Chimney. I see you've manifested a new alternate. Don't you ever get tired of arguing with yourself?

I post only as Chimney1.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#176723 Aug 13, 2014
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
One man's foolishness is another man' s faith.
I know (because I took the call) that a woman traveling through the county called a county office to complain about a cross she could see from the Interstate Highway.
I must say it is a BIG CROSS. IT is on church property, attached to the Christian Church within view of the interstate.
What say you?
She was a lunatic, obviously. And I presume that the county office would have checked that the cross was on private land and that the owner had a right to put it there, and that was the end of the matter. Still, good grist for your persecution mill, is it? You and she complement each other, both taking things too far in opposite directions.
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#176724 Aug 13, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
So you could have just accepted a complete delusion and you are okay with that.
I could not live like that. Thank God my faith is not so flimsy.
Why don't you tell us the difference in "your truth" ( your religion) and my "religion" ( my faith)
And what makes yours so much less " flimsy."
Why don't you come out and give us the name ( I don't think you ever have) of this god you give thanks to!
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#176725 Aug 13, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
She was a lunatic, obviously. And I presume that the county office would have checked that the cross was on private land and that the owner had a right to put it there, and that was the end of the matter. Still, good grist for your persecution mill, is it? You and she complement each other, both taking things too far in opposite directions.
So, how about wearing a cross around your neck in a public school or government office building?
Should a student be allowed to wear a t-shirt to school that says " Jesus Loves You"?
Should a student or public official or government worker be allowed to carry a Bible or keep one in his desk just for reading on his free time, study halls, or lunch break?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#176726 Aug 13, 2014
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
So, how about wearing a cross around your neck in a public school or government office building?
Yes
Should a student be allowed to wear a t-shirt to school that says " Jesus Loves You"?
Tricky but on balance, no.

School is not adult society and school children do not yet have all the rights and responsibilities of adults, nor the automatic RIGHT to freedom of expression within school. They are free to express themselves religiously to the degree deemed fit by their parents on weekends and after hours.

The problem is, what happens when another kid wears "No God but Allah" and another one wears "All Gods are imaginary"? In an ideal world, this would be acceptable freedom of expression. In the real world, this is divisive and could cause violence.

No School Board could guarantee the safety of a child wearing these slogans. Just leave them outside, they are lawsuits waiting to happen. Its the sensible thing to do and it does not stop a single child from believing what they want to.

So whats the difference between a cross around your neck and a slogan? One is purely a symbol of your own religion (or a fashion statement), the other makes positive claims. You can also wear a cross under your shirt. It does not have to be an overt display.

Frankly, I went to high schools with uniforms and most jewellery was banned. Some damn the uniform for enforcing conformity, while others see it as eliminating the all too prevalent divisions of class, wealth, and religion.
Should a student or public official or government worker be allowed to carry a Bible or keep one in his desk just for reading on his free time, study halls, or lunch break?
Yes, of course.
wondering

Morris, OK

#176727 Aug 14, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Tricky but on balance, no.
Q was: should a student be allowed to wear a t-shirt to school that says " jesus loves you"?
you say "tricky but on balance, no"

what is next? if someone wears a chicago bulls tee to school and you don't like the bulls should they have to take it off as well?
what if a iranian student wants to wear a tee that says "the taliban rules". is that over bored or with in their rights?

now you are getting into the territory that the washinton redskins are falling into. their name offends someone so they have to change it. well what about the braves?

what about the pirates? using a name that stood for killing and robbing of innocent people?

in cali this with in the last year or two american students were sent home for wearing american flags on their tees to school on cinco-de-mayo. it offended the mexican students. uhm sorry but you are in america.

this is where all this crazy shyt is getting too crazy.
wondering

Morris, OK

#176728 Aug 14, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
let me add to my last post. america is the king of frivolous law suits, the people are the king of greed and dishonesty. people wanting to sue over anything and lawyers lined up to take the cases and the sad thing is the courts allow the cases and let them win.
Good Actor

Hayward, CA

#176729 Aug 14, 2014
Only teach evolution in the south.Everyone else already knows it.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#176730 Aug 14, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Q was: should a student be allowed to wear a t-shirt to school that says " jesus loves you"?
you say "tricky but on balance, no"
what is next? if someone wears a chicago bulls tee to school and you don't like the bulls should they have to take it off as well?
Depends on whether that shirt or any other was likely to be the cause of violent behaviour. Schools do not operate under ADULT constitutional rights, and they have the right to ban any clothing that they see as causing problems for whatever reason.
what if a iranian student wants to wear a tee that says "the taliban rules". is that over bored or with in their rights?
They would have the right to tell that student to remove it.

BTW, the Iranians hate and always did hate the Taliban, they are mortal enemies.
now you are getting into the territory that the washinton redskins are falling into. their name offends someone so they have to change it. well what about the braves?
what about the pirates?
Yeah, I think that is silly too. There is nothing inherently offensive about "Redskins", just a bunch of whiners who wish to take offence. If you cannot see the difference between that and proselytising t-shirts, nor the difference between constitutional rights of adults versus school rules for kids, then too bad.
n cali this with in the last year or two american students were sent home for wearing american flags on their tees to school on cinco-de-mayo. it offended the mexican students. uhm sorry but you are in america.
this is where all this crazy shyt is getting too crazy.
Yeah I call that crazy too. But again, if the intention of the flag wearers was to deliberately point the finger at the Mexican students as outsiders and not real Americans, then the school could step in and stop it.

In this issue you can play the slippery slope game all day. I even think that "Jesus loves you" on a shirt at school would normally be OK. But my POINT is that school boards have a right to decide the allowed dress code so long as they are consistent, and kids do not have the same rights as adults. Adults can parade around in KKK or Black Panther outfits too if they want as well. Does not mean there is any place for it in schools.
wondering

Morris, OK

#176731 Aug 14, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
In this issue you can play the slippery slope game all day. I even think that "Jesus loves you" on a shirt at school would normally be OK. But my POINT is that school boards have a right to decide the allowed dress code so long as they are consistent, and kids do not have the same rights as adults. Adults can parade around in KKK or Black Panther outfits too if they want as well. Does not mean there is any place for it in schools.
agreed

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