Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 175,430

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story
HTS

Englewood, CO

#153629 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>

No,not purposeful. But yes, somewhat ordered.
<quoted text>
I was comparing to ice, not liquid water. Ice is far more ordered than liquid water.
<quoted text>
Only showing you do not understand the concept of entropy in this context.
<quoted text>
I have given several alternative and equivalent definitions.
<quoted text>
If you are interested in applying the SLoT, then you need to use the definitions appropriate to the use of that law. By those definitions, a frozen corpse has less entropy than a living person. By that, we have that the corpse is more 'ordered'.
I would suggest that you do not know what it means to be ordered. Once again, the degree of disorder is the amount of information required to completely describe the microscopic system. You can measure that information in bits where each bit corresponds to an entropy of k(ln 2).
What gives you the prerogative to state that DNA is not "purposeful"?
What is your definition of "purpose"?
I realize that be ascribing purpose to DNA you are walking on thin ice from an atheistic perspective....
I must assume that is DNA is not "purposeful", then you believe that there is o purpose in your existence?
You are mingling religion and science.
And what do you mean DNA is "somewhat ordered"? Is a textbook of quantum mechanics "somewhat ordered?"

And where are you getting that definition of "order."
Does a sphere have more or less order than a randomly-shaped rock?
A sphere can be defined by one point and a radius. A rock requires many points to define its shape.
However, a sphere is more ordered because its surface has PREDICTABILITY. This is where you fail to understand the SLoT as it applies to biological systems.

“The Grim Reaper Is Fictional ”

Since: Mar 13

But We Will All Meet Him

#153630 Sep 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical Sub reaction when presented with a question = run away!

The question still stands;
The Snake River Canyon is 410 meters wide. A girl standing on one side of the canyon yells out her name. Given the speed of sound is 343.2 m/s, how long will it take for the echo of this yell to return to the girl?

“Don't get me started”

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#153631 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
This was already covered and figured out. Maybe you should do something called "read back a little" before you start spouting off. lol
OK, I'm glad you figured it out.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#153632 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The galaxies we see now are farther away now than they were when they emitted the light we see. Right now, they would be about 45 billion light years away, but we cannot see them *right now* because it would take light time to get to us. We see them at 13 billion light years away because that is how far the light had to travel to catch up to us.
Understood we are seeing 13 billion year old light.
But there is another factor it isn't the distance at the time the light was emitted.
MACS0647-JD is thought to be the farthest thing we have seen, we see it as it was 13.3 billion years ago. But it wasn't 13.3 billion ly away when it's light left it, it was closer. The light traveled father than the actual distance was between us when it left, and now it should be nearly 46 billion ly away.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#153633 Sep 19, 2013
Ok, I'm bored so I'll bite...

410 / 343.2 = 1.2 (approx)* 2 = 2.4 sec

“The Grim Reaper Is Fictional ”

Since: Mar 13

But We Will All Meet Him

#153634 Sep 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
Ok, I'm bored so I'll bite...
410 / 343.2 = 1.2 (approx)* 2 = 2.4 sec
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#153635 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.
Who's buried in Grant's tomb?

:-)

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#153636 Sep 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Very persuasive argument..."gobbledygook "...{eye-roll}
You're the one with creationist gobbledygook, the only way we would be violating the slot, is if we lived for 900 years without wearing out. Or did not need to take energy you use energy . We wear out and die , but it will create entirely new offspring , the offspring's dna is new, it has old instructions, some new and some deleted.
Life is dynamic in this respect, that it can create a new life.

Unlike a machine but like a machine, there is no thermodynamic laws that say a machine cannot create a new machine to take it's place after it has worn out. Provided there is a energy source that can be used to fuel it. But our biological offspring, like the machine and the machine it creates, will wear out and die also. Just like the second law says.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153637 Sep 19, 2013
HTS wrote:
And where are you getting that definition of "order."
Does a sphere have more or less order than a randomly-shaped rock?
A sphere can be defined by one point and a radius. A rock requires many points to define its shape.
Exactly. And by my definition, the rock rock is more disordered than the sphere.

Do you disagree?

“The Grim Reaper Is Fictional ”

Since: Mar 13

But We Will All Meet Him

#153638 Sep 19, 2013
What is the speed of a bus that travels 250.0 km in 3.00 hours?
What is it traveling in meters per second?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153639 Sep 19, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Understood we are seeing 13 billion year old light.
But there is another factor it isn't the distance at the time the light was emitted.
MACS0647-JD is thought to be the farthest thing we have seen, we see it as it was 13.3 billion years ago. But it wasn't 13.3 billion ly away when it's light left it, it was closer. The light traveled father than the actual distance was between us when it left, and now it should be nearly 46 billion ly away.
yes, there are three different things to consider:

1) how far apart that object was from us when it emitted the light.

2) how far apart that object is from us now.

3) how far the light traveled going from that object to get to us.

For this object, I would have to look up what the distance was in the past, but it was essentially the radius of the observable universe at that time. That would be far less than 13 billion light years.

The distance to that object now is about 45 billion light years.

And the distance light actually traveled is 13 billion light years.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153640 Sep 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it is not focused on what we are concerned with. It doesn't address the issues in terms of what evolution requires.
In that case, how about this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life

it explicitly discusses the entropy aspects of life. In particular,

"Moreover, the Gibbs free energy equation, in modified form, can be utilized for open systems when chemical potential terms are included in the energy balance equation. In a popular 1982 textbook, Principles of Biochemistry by noted American biochemist Albert Lehninger, it is argued that the order produced within cells as they grow and divide is more than compensated for by the disorder they create in their surroundings in the course of growth and division. In short, according to Lehninger, "living organisms preserve their internal order by taking from their surroundings free energy, in the form of nutrients or sunlight, and returning to their surroundings an equal amount of energy as heat and entropy."

“The Grim Reaper Is Fictional ”

Since: Mar 13

But We Will All Meet Him

#153641 Sep 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's buried in Grant's tomb?
:-)
No one. A tomb is above ground.

“GOD OF ALL”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153642 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.
proves what an a hole your are
subduction zone is a girl
last time i looked.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#153643 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. And by my definition, the rock rock is more disordered than the sphere.
Do you disagree?
OK, now I understand what you're saying...
Yes, I agree that a rock rock is more disordered than a sphere.

To recap your definition of disorder... "the degree of disorder is the amount of information required to completely describe the microscopic system."

According to that definition, a 1,000 page textbook of quantum mechanics is less ordered than 1,000 pages of single-spaced text composed only of the letter "b". I would sharply disagree with such a definition, because the 1,000 pages of the letter "b" could be created with little energy... whereas a textbook of quantum mechanics would take great energy to create. This is because a meaningful book contains information, whereas repetitive letters do not. How does that analogy fit in with the SLoT?

“The Grim Reaper Is Fictional ”

Since: Mar 13

But We Will All Meet Him

#153644 Sep 19, 2013
the dark lord wrote:
<quoted text>
proves what an a hole your are
subduction zone is a girl
last time i looked.
Then I will refer to Sub as a "person" for I have no clue if that person is male or female!

“GOD OF ALL”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153645 Sep 19, 2013
scientific understanding of some significant quality
of inquiry must first be established a prior
before a multiplicity of quantum dynamics can be
satisfactorily applied to the foundational subject posterior.

one based maelstrom in philosophical logic can be
combined in mathematical equation with another;
until a system least a network is systematically
constructed from recent if not local
data banks.

we hold a fine approach of trigonometry apparatus
in the assessment of multi complexity of scientific understanding
in accordance with primary subjects.

“GOD OF ALL”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153646 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I will refer to Sub as a "person" for I have no clue if that person is male or female!
lets just call her "Scatterbrains"
the FBI use her head as a memory bank football
such a sad case.
and lests be honest
she is so brainy.

everyone want to be her
i want to score a goal with her at Wembley.

or better a hat-trick
so i can take it home after the game.

“GOD OF ALL”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153647 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case, how about this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life
it explicitly discusses the entropy aspects of life. In particular,
"Moreover, the Gibbs free energy equation, in modified form, can be utilized for open systems when chemical potential terms are included in the energy balance equation. In a popular 1982 textbook, Principles of Biochemistry by noted American biochemist Albert Lehninger, it is argued that the order produced within cells as they grow and divide is more than compensated for by the disorder they create in their surroundings in the course of growth and division. In short, according to Lehninger, "living organisms preserve their internal order by taking from their surroundings free energy, in the form of nutrients or sunlight, and returning to their surroundings an equal amount of energy as heat and entropy."
i could stand up for texas women...

and when i am finished you will be goggle eyed.

love ya babe.

“GOD OF ALL”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153648 Sep 19, 2013
lick lips and say meow
hold an iron towards the heat of the sun
an pull a lever for the grace of god.

touch the blue paper
and move a significant distance away.

feel the heat take the pressure
love the pain
come through pleasure.

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