• Sections
Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178740 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#153632 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The galaxies we see now are farther away now than they were when they emitted the light we see. Right now, they would be about 45 billion light years away, but we cannot see them *right now* because it would take light time to get to us. We see them at 13 billion light years away because that is how far the light had to travel to catch up to us.
Understood we are seeing 13 billion year old light.
But there is another factor it isn't the distance at the time the light was emitted.
MACS0647-JD is thought to be the farthest thing we have seen, we see it as it was 13.3 billion years ago. But it wasn't 13.3 billion ly away when it's light left it, it was closer. The light traveled father than the actual distance was between us when it left, and now it should be nearly 46 billion ly away.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

#153633 Sep 19, 2013
Ok, I'm bored so I'll bite...

410 / 343.2 = 1.2 (approx)* 2 = 2.4 sec

“Freedom To Choose Does Not”

Since: Mar 13

Mean Freedom Of Consequences

#153634 Sep 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
Ok, I'm bored so I'll bite...
410 / 343.2 = 1.2 (approx)* 2 = 2.4 sec
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

#153635 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.
Who's buried in Grant's tomb?

:-)

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#153636 Sep 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Very persuasive argument..."gobbledygook "...{eye-roll}
You're the one with creationist gobbledygook, the only way we would be violating the slot, is if we lived for 900 years without wearing out. Or did not need to take energy you use energy . We wear out and die , but it will create entirely new offspring , the offspring's dna is new, it has old instructions, some new and some deleted.
Life is dynamic in this respect, that it can create a new life.

Unlike a machine but like a machine, there is no thermodynamic laws that say a machine cannot create a new machine to take it's place after it has worn out. Provided there is a energy source that can be used to fuel it. But our biological offspring, like the machine and the machine it creates, will wear out and die also. Just like the second law says.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153637 Sep 19, 2013
HTS wrote:
And where are you getting that definition of "order."
Does a sphere have more or less order than a randomly-shaped rock?
A sphere can be defined by one point and a radius. A rock requires many points to define its shape.
Exactly. And by my definition, the rock rock is more disordered than the sphere.

Do you disagree?

“Freedom To Choose Does Not”

Since: Mar 13

Mean Freedom Of Consequences

#153638 Sep 19, 2013
What is the speed of a bus that travels 250.0 km in 3.00 hours?
What is it traveling in meters per second?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153639 Sep 19, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Understood we are seeing 13 billion year old light.
But there is another factor it isn't the distance at the time the light was emitted.
MACS0647-JD is thought to be the farthest thing we have seen, we see it as it was 13.3 billion years ago. But it wasn't 13.3 billion ly away when it's light left it, it was closer. The light traveled father than the actual distance was between us when it left, and now it should be nearly 46 billion ly away.
yes, there are three different things to consider:

1) how far apart that object was from us when it emitted the light.

2) how far apart that object is from us now.

3) how far the light traveled going from that object to get to us.

For this object, I would have to look up what the distance was in the past, but it was essentially the radius of the observable universe at that time. That would be far less than 13 billion light years.

The distance to that object now is about 45 billion light years.

And the distance light actually traveled is 13 billion light years.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153640 Sep 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it is not focused on what we are concerned with. It doesn't address the issues in terms of what evolution requires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life

it explicitly discusses the entropy aspects of life. In particular,

"Moreover, the Gibbs free energy equation, in modified form, can be utilized for open systems when chemical potential terms are included in the energy balance equation. In a popular 1982 textbook, Principles of Biochemistry by noted American biochemist Albert Lehninger, it is argued that the order produced within cells as they grow and divide is more than compensated for by the disorder they create in their surroundings in the course of growth and division. In short, according to Lehninger, "living organisms preserve their internal order by taking from their surroundings free energy, in the form of nutrients or sunlight, and returning to their surroundings an equal amount of energy as heat and entropy."

“Freedom To Choose Does Not”

Since: Mar 13

Mean Freedom Of Consequences

#153641 Sep 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's buried in Grant's tomb?
:-)
No one. A tomb is above ground.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153642 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo. But it was for Sub. I get tired of him posting grade school questions that he already knows by heart.
proves what an a hole your are
subduction zone is a girl
last time i looked.
HTS
#153643 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. And by my definition, the rock rock is more disordered than the sphere.
Do you disagree?
OK, now I understand what you're saying...
Yes, I agree that a rock rock is more disordered than a sphere.

To recap your definition of disorder... "the degree of disorder is the amount of information required to completely describe the microscopic system."

According to that definition, a 1,000 page textbook of quantum mechanics is less ordered than 1,000 pages of single-spaced text composed only of the letter "b". I would sharply disagree with such a definition, because the 1,000 pages of the letter "b" could be created with little energy... whereas a textbook of quantum mechanics would take great energy to create. This is because a meaningful book contains information, whereas repetitive letters do not. How does that analogy fit in with the SLoT?

“Freedom To Choose Does Not”

Since: Mar 13

Mean Freedom Of Consequences

#153644 Sep 19, 2013
the dark lord wrote:
<quoted text>
proves what an a hole your are
subduction zone is a girl
last time i looked.
Then I will refer to Sub as a "person" for I have no clue if that person is male or female!

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153645 Sep 19, 2013
scientific understanding of some significant quality
of inquiry must first be established a prior
before a multiplicity of quantum dynamics can be
satisfactorily applied to the foundational subject posterior.

one based maelstrom in philosophical logic can be
combined in mathematical equation with another;
until a system least a network is systematically
constructed from recent if not local
data banks.

we hold a fine approach of trigonometry apparatus
in the assessment of multi complexity of scientific understanding
in accordance with primary subjects.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153646 Sep 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I will refer to Sub as a "person" for I have no clue if that person is male or female!
lets just call her "Scatterbrains"
the FBI use her head as a memory bank football
and lests be honest
she is so brainy.

everyone want to be her
i want to score a goal with her at Wembley.

or better a hat-trick
so i can take it home after the game.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153647 Sep 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life
it explicitly discusses the entropy aspects of life. In particular,
"Moreover, the Gibbs free energy equation, in modified form, can be utilized for open systems when chemical potential terms are included in the energy balance equation. In a popular 1982 textbook, Principles of Biochemistry by noted American biochemist Albert Lehninger, it is argued that the order produced within cells as they grow and divide is more than compensated for by the disorder they create in their surroundings in the course of growth and division. In short, according to Lehninger, "living organisms preserve their internal order by taking from their surroundings free energy, in the form of nutrients or sunlight, and returning to their surroundings an equal amount of energy as heat and entropy."
i could stand up for texas women...

and when i am finished you will be goggle eyed.

love ya babe.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153648 Sep 19, 2013
lick lips and say meow
hold an iron towards the heat of the sun
an pull a lever for the grace of god.

touch the blue paper
and move a significant distance away.

feel the heat take the pressure
love the pain
come through pleasure.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

London, UK

#153649 Sep 19, 2013
see ya folks.

“Freedom To Choose Does Not”

Since: Mar 13

Mean Freedom Of Consequences

#153650 Sep 19, 2013
the dark lord wrote:
see ya folks.
Yep oh and feel free to take your time coming back :-)
The Dude

#153651 Sep 19, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
There are trillions of trillions of possible micro states of a crystal.
A given molecule just happens to align itself in one position vs another. You call it "ordered" only because of its symmetry. In the case of ice, the molecular properties of water alone at a given temperature determine the crystalline arrangement.
As far as microstates of a cell...I assume you mean FUNCTIONAL microstates?
I challenge you to prove or even logically explain your contention that "trillions" of possible microstates exist.
As far as is known, there is only one genetic code that has the capacity to support life...DNA
If multiple codes are possible....then show us the scientific evidence. Why are not multiple different genetic codes evident in nature?
Why aren't multiple genetic codes evident in nature? Hmmm, let's see.

Well there's around 7 BILLION humans on the planet.

Oh, and then we have EVERYTHING ELSE that's on the Earth.

Each one of them all with slightly different genetic code. And if alive, functional to boot.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.