Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."
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Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#144314
Jul 27, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I have seen, the self assembly of DNA does not seem to be as much of a concern. In the RNA hypothesis the very first life used RNA only. DNA was a later improvement on RNA. They are pretty sure what the first what would be called pre-protocells would be like. They have shown how those could naturally form. They are still a long way away from life.
Where he is wrong is claiming without evidence that there are no viable hypotheses of abiogenesis when there are several. Until by experimentation in the laboratory we find out which ones DO NOT work they are still viable as far as hypotheses go. Hypotheses are always unformed a bit, that is why they are called hypotheses.
Saying that RNA was the first step still does not solve the puzzle of how the first DNA emerged. Its does "shorten the gap", but the gap is still real. For now its a mystery - lets not gloss over that, or we are just like our faith based opponents.

There are abiogenesis hypotheses that have not been disproven, but that does not yet quite mean viable. I am the first to agree that we now have natural steps for RNA, peptide chains, and lipid membranes. But we still have no idea how they got together nor that other ingredient, a simple metabolic mechanism (something like the Kreb's cycle but no doubt simpler).

However, I would stress...evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. We could fail at determining abiogenesis for another century and it still would not falsify the fact that the evidence supports evolution and literal Genesis is dead.

Since: Mar 12

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#144315
Jul 27, 2013
 

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HTS wrote:
Intelligence is the only force in the universse that has been proven to be capable of creating complexity.
That is simply false.

Here is an example. A dust cloud, which can be described by reasonably simple parameters, can coalesce into a solar system by the application of known gravitational, chemical, and nuclear forces. The solar system e.g. ours, even without life, is a far more complex construction than the dust cloud it emerged from. Its takes far more information to accurately describe the planets etc in detail than it does to describe the original dust cloud.

Therefore, natural processes can create vast complexity from relative simplicity, with no input from an intelligent creator.

Since: Mar 12

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#144316
Jul 27, 2013
 

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defender wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an idea Kong!! Why don't you read the book? You google hounds are amazing!! Guess what? I'm a French model it's on the internet so must be true... Dawkins has said many times that life only appears to be designed... Anybody who has read his books knows this... If I'm not mistaken he says the same thing in Greatest Show on Earth... Its not like he's agreeing with me here...
I'm also amazed at those who put down the bible yet never read it... Really?
I have read the book and your inference is bordering on quote mining.

Dawkins' whole point is that humans are apt to see a well structured complex object like a tree as designed, but other processes can explain it. That's why he says "designoid", mimicking the appearance of design to our "design-centric" bias.

He is not trying to explain away design. He is trying to explain why the presumption of design is incorrect.

And he succeeds admirably.

Since: Mar 12

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#144317
Jul 27, 2013
 

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defender wrote:
<quoted text>
The Blind Watchmaker...
Please... Are you really going to go down the Natural Selection god road again?..
Yawn. Natural selection is an easily understood physical, non-mysterious, bloody obvious in fact, mechanism. Its not a god, its not a stop gap. Any fool can understand it but it takes a bigger fool to pretend its not real.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

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#144318
Jul 27, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
I never suggested that nature proves that "my God" exists.
I said that nature shows proof of "God", ie, intelligent design.
So then, Horus or Quetzacoatal is just as valid a choice as your god. In that case, there are many to choose from http://www.godchecker.com Man has made many gods in his own image.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#144319
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
You sure can't distinguish them... That point you've proven...
You're a real hoot you know? Lets forget for a minute that you're the evolution denying fundamental christian , and that I live by the science of empirical reasoning. That way we can indulge ourselves in your twisted fantasy.

OK times up! Nope, nice try but .........
you are still the loopy that's in the fruit.
Go adjust your tinfoil hat now.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#144320
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an idea Kong!! Why don't you read the book? You google hounds are amazing!! Guess what? I'm a French model it's on the internet so must be true... Dawkins has said many times that life only appears to be designed... Anybody who has read his books knows this... If I'm not mistaken he says the same thing in
Greatest Show on Earth... Its not like he's agreeing with me here...
I'm also amazed at those who put down the bible yet never read it... Really?
I haven't yet had the opportunity to read "Blind Watchmaker". But I HAVE read the Bible, as I grew up in a traditional Christian (Presbyterian) household.

I **DID** look online for your quote. Among the untold hundreds of millions of quotes, and many by Dawkins shown in "The Blind Watchmaker", OR "The Greatest Show on Earth", yet there is NOTHING that comes close to Dawkins saying "I have spent my life trying to naturally explain what appears to be designed".

Then again, you also equated the Theory of Evolution with Wicca (!!!).
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
ID is simply self evident... Why should science have to refute it?

The only people who have a problem with ID are the members of evolutionism... Evolution is an unproven theory. Thats all... Evolutionism (Wicca) is the God hating mother nature worshipper's religion that has laid claim to this broken model and is now used as a cornerstone for their beliefs...
...so it's VERY clear that you're making shit up as you go along.

If you can provide a link to where Dawkins said what you purport, I'll apologize.

Until then, you're lying.
defender

Wessington Springs, SD

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#144321
Jul 27, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>I have read the book and your inference is bordering on quote mining.

Dawkins' whole point is that humans are apt to see a well structured complex object like a tree as designed, but other processes can explain it. That's why he says "designoid", mimicking the appearance of design to our "design-centric" bias.

He is not trying to explain away design. He is trying to explain why the presumption of design is incorrect.

And he succeeds admirably.
Oh ok so he did say it but now I'm quote mining? Lol... Even the smallest of things is hard to admit huh?
defender

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#144322
Jul 27, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>Yawn. Natural selection is an easily understood physical, non-mysterious, bloody obvious in fact, mechanism. Its not a god, its not a stop gap. Any fool can understand it but it takes a bigger fool to pretend its not real.
Your faith is Wicca ... Your god is natural selection ... It's really nothing new...

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

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#144323
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an idea Kong!! Why don't you read the book? You google hounds are amazing!! Guess what? I'm a French model it's on the internet so must be true... Dawkins has said many times that life only appears to be designed... Anybody who has read his books knows this... If I'm not mistaken he says the same thing in Greatest Show on Earth... Its not like he's agreeing with me here...
I'm also amazed at those who put down the bible yet never read it... Really?
Incorrect! The one publication responsible for creating the most atheists is the Bible. Many people who have rejected the bible do so after reading it several times WITH comprehension. It is chock full of contraditions, inconsistencies and atrocities.

Also, most of these folks know more about the origins of this book than the believers do. Often believers will think the original text was delivered to Paul by angels. They have no idea what the First Council of Nicea was, what Emperor Constantine had to do with it nor that the first texts were not written in English nor Hebrew.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#144324
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text> Oh ok so he did say it but now I'm quote mining? Lol... Even the smallest of things is hard to admit huh?
ROFLMMFAO!!!

“I have upset the hand of god”

Since: Jan 11

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#144325
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Your faith is Wicca ... Your god is natural selection ... It's really nothing new...
You are the spokesman for Creationism and God? Seriously?
defender

Wessington Springs, SD

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#144326
Jul 27, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>I haven't yet had the opportunity to read "Blind Watchmaker". But I HAVE read the Bible, as I grew up in a traditional Christian (Presbyterian) household.

I **DID** look online for your quote. Among the untold hundreds of millions of quotes, and many by Dawkins shown in "The Blind Watchmaker", OR "The Greatest Show on Earth", yet there is NOTHING that comes close to Dawkins saying "I have spent my life trying to naturally explain what appears to be designed".

Then again, you also equated the Theory of Evolution with Wicca (!!!).

defender wrote, "<quoted text>
ID is simply self evident... Why should science have to refute it?

The only people who have a problem with ID are the members of evolutionism... Evolution is an unproven theory. Thats all... Evolutionism (Wicca) is the God hating mother nature worshipper's religion that has laid claim to this broken model and is now used as a cornerstone for their beliefs...
"

...so it's VERY clear that you're making shit up as you go along.

If you can provide a link to where Dawkins said what you purport, I'll apologize.

Until then, you're lying.
Good grief... Ask your buddy chimney and he'll tell you... Oh course I'm quote mining according to him but yeah I stand by it... I love Dawkins books!! High comedy!!!

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#144327
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
No it hinges on Scientific Fact... You can babble on all day but end result is the same... And it's undisputed...
What is undisputed is that you've been caught in more half-truths, suppositions and lies than a carny selling Rolexes from the trunk of a Chevette.

Mind your 9th commandment.
defender

Wessington Springs, SD

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#144328
Jul 27, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>I have read the book and your inference is bordering on quote mining.

Dawkins' whole point is that humans are apt to see a well structured complex object like a tree as designed, but other processes can explain it. That's why he says "designoid", mimicking the appearance of design to our "design-centric" bias.

He is not trying to explain away design. He is trying to explain why the presumption of design is incorrect.

And he succeeds admirably.
Yes that's exactly what he's saying... Thank you...
But as to succeeding?... Well...

“I have upset the hand of god”

Since: Jan 11

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#144329
Jul 27, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
What is undisputed is that you've been caught in more half-truths, suppositions and lies than a carny selling Rolexes from the trunk of a Chevette.
Mind your 9th commandment.
Interesting visual. I have more respect for the carny though. At least he is lying to make a living and not to avoid the tedium of spending another day setting in his mom's basement in his underwear watching reruns of My Name is Earl.

My guess is that he googled a list of Richard Dawkins books and that is about as far into them as he has gotten.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

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#144330
Jul 27, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
What is undisputed is that you've been caught in more half-truths, suppositions and lies than a carny selling Rolexes from the trunk of a Chevette.
Mind your 9th commandment.
He doesn't have to, he can go to church and get forgiven on Sunday. This is at the core of religiturd hypocracy.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#144331
Jul 27, 2013
 
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Good grief... Ask your buddy chimney and he'll tell you... Oh course I'm quote mining according to him but yeah I stand by it... I love Dawkins books!! High comedy!!!
I apologize.

Apparently Dawkins DID say something along the lines of the quote you posted.

You still took that quote out of context, but I won't split hairs (besides, Chim already went there).

Dawkins a comedy writer, though?

Perhaps to you.
defender

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#144332
Jul 27, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are the spokesman for Creationism and God? Seriously?
Umm .. No.. Merely pointing out that yours is not fact...
defender

Wessington Springs, SD

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#144333
Jul 27, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>What is undisputed is that you've been caught in more half-truths, suppositions and lies than a carny selling Rolexes from the trunk of a Chevette.

Mind your 9th commandment.
Care to point out one of my lies?

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