Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#141998
Jul 11, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> There has been no decrease in CO2 emissions in 200 years, it has been rising overall.
And in any case, even a reduction in emissions would only slow the rate of increase in atmospheric CO2 levels, not cause the total level to decline.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#141999
Jul 11, 2013
 
the dark lord wrote:
NSET engineering and technology
NOKIA nano animo-people
NIKON nono space
NINNY

“Pope & President”

Since: Aug 12

Carlisle, UK

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#142000
Jul 11, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
NINNY
no i have an idea of nano people and nano space,
i have just decided to call them Nokia and Nikon respectively.

“Pope & President”

Since: Aug 12

Carlisle, UK

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#142001
Jul 11, 2013
 
alright, it all seems less potent to me: as a quest
or something than it was last night.

“Pope & President”

Since: Aug 12

Carlisle, UK

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#142002
Jul 11, 2013
 
politics today is quagmired in what i term: slush puppy.
slush puppy is a political dialectic for modern times.
it tastes like fruit juice but its a fake and a fraudulent
blot of the real political agenda that struggles underneath
in the forgotten world of politics.

slush puppy is a kind of political agenda its also the blank
expression that we get from our politicians these days.
trouble them with an answer to a real problem and they
think of all the referrals all the letters and the tweets from
angry pressure groups from key political organisations.

slush puppy is the new dumbed-down phenomenon
in a political context for modern times.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#142003
Jul 11, 2013
 
the dark lord wrote:
politics today is quagmired in what i term: slush puppy.
slush puppy is a political dialectic for modern times.
it tastes like fruit juice but its a fake and a fraudulent
blot of the real political agenda that struggles underneath
in the forgotten world of politics.
slush puppy is a kind of political agenda its also the blank
expression that we get from our politicians these days.
trouble them with an answer to a real problem and they
think of all the referrals all the letters and the tweets from
angry pressure groups from key political organisations.
slush puppy is the new dumbed-down phenomenon
in a political context for modern times.
Now thats a post I like. slush puppy. Apt phrase.

Same goes for news. Now people dial into the version of the news they like. news is a slush puppy too, catering to every social and political taste instead of "reporting what happened" which is what news used to strive to do in a hopefully balanced way.

Left and Right both guilty.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#142004
Jul 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Believer wrote:
Where there is no faith, there is no hope!
Where there is no hope, there is no purpose!
Where there is no purpose, there is no purpose.
HWHETHLHH
Faith is believing things without a rational justification for doing so. That is not required to have hope.

Purpose is something we imbue our lives with, not something given to us from on high.

If you think you're incapable of defining a purpose for your life, you should try thinking for once. It does wonders. Here's a good starting point: love the people who love you, do good things for other people, find what brings you joy in life and do that. That's purpose. You don't need some imaginary wizard to be able to come up with stuff like that. If you think there needs to be more, you're capable of defining what that "more" ought to be. If you do something good, give yourself credit for having done it. If you do something bad, take responsibility for having done it. Stop fobbing everything off onto invisible spooks.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#142005
Jul 11, 2013
 
SonRisen wrote:
<quoted text>
If your purpose is to have faith and hope then your purpose is to spread the word of God. To share his glory and his wisdom. Or I guess you can be like you and have no purpose but to run down what you don't understand and run down what you feel threatened by.
You mean, the way people who don't understand and feel threatened by science run it down?
SonRisen wrote:
Let me guess you pray at times just in case, you probably go to church at times but you feel you have to go for other reasons than yourself because part of you think it is all BS while the other part says what if. Well all those choices are yours to make. Choose wisely grasshopper for you can either seal your fate shut or open your fate and go. It all comes down to you.
Obviously, you don't understand why Pascal's wager is bullshit. Consider this: Zeus.
SonRisen wrote:
But I can clearly see that you sort of want to believe but at the sametime you come here and feel like a fool because it dos not fit in with the crowd/clique. So to be sure you are liked now you run God down and just go along with the crowd. Hey that is all good if that is what you choose. Just be ready for the misery when you follow that same crowd to helll!
And you'd better be ready for the misery when you follow all the Christians to Hades.

Whoops, I gave away the whole secret to why Pascal's wager is bullshit. My bad. Anyway, it ain't "either the Bible's right or the atheist is right," it's "either the Bible's right or the atheist is right or any of the thousands of religious constructs over the history of humanity is right." Of course, those religious constructs can't ALL be right, but they can ALL be wrong. I don't suppose you ever thought that far outside of yourself, did you? Nah...it's not comfortable to do that, but once you begin, you can't stop, and that's where atheism begins. Don't you DARE start thinking rationally about your religious beliefs and your nonsensical apologetics, or you'll stop being a good Christian.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#142006
Jul 11, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I was not getting into an argument about CO2 levels.
Originally, YOU made the claim that as a trace gas CO2's effect or a tiny total rise in CO2 would be insignificant.
I corrected you with the point that its not the total, but RELATIVE rise in CO2 that matters. An that rise is at least 30%, and its anthropomorphic in origin. I see yo shift the goal posts before acknowledging that point. I do understand that you think you will have a heart attack if you agree with me on anything at all, so I'll let it pass.
In any case, your claim sounds rather incredible. Not only that, but your logic is flawed. Even if we agreed that total emissions declined over a particular period, that may only slow the RATE of INCREASE, not lead to a DECREASE in CO2 levels. If I start you on a shot of bourbon every five minutes and then at the half hour mark reduce it to every 10 minutes, you are still gonna get drunker and drunker.
The empirical data hows a continual rise pretty much over the last century.
Now I will remind you again that I do not regard that as meaning we are all headed for climate disaster. It MIGHT, but I have some confidence in Earth's self correcting (negative feedback) climate systems. Also the effect is probably logarithmic in the sense that it might require successive doublings for a progressively smaller total effect. So I am not in favour of punitive attacks on industry and so on for the sake of reductions.
I AM in favour of every green technology development we can manage to reduce long term dependence on fossil fuel. It makes both environmental and geo-political sense.
Anthropogenic. Just sayin'.:)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#142007
Jul 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

FREE SERVANT wrote:
Abraham Lincoln only went to second grade elementry school and he was self taught. Don't be fooled into thinking only government ran teaching, will produce the best results,
Nor be fooled into thinking home schooling will produce the best results either.
FREE SERVANT wrote:
history tells us independant thinking has accomplished the best things.
Independent thinking does not automatically translate into brilliance.

And you siphon idea is still silly.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#142008
Jul 11, 2013
 
SonRisen wrote:
<quoted text>
If your purpose is to have faith and hope then your purpose is to spread the word of God. To share his glory and his wisdom. Or I guess you can be like you and have no purpose but to run down what you don't understand and run down what you feel threatened by. Let me guess you pray at times just in case, you probably go to church at times but you feel you have to go for other reasons than yourself because part of you think it is all BS while the other part says what if. Well all those choices are yours to make. Choose wisely grasshopper for you can either seal your fate shut or open your fate and go. It all comes down to you. But I can clearly see that you sort of want to believe but at the sametime you come here and feel like a fool because it dos not fit in with the crowd/clique. So to be sure you are liked now you run God down and just go along with the crowd. Hey that is all good if that is what you choose. Just be ready for the misery when you follow that same crowd to helll!
For folks who are not supposed to judge others, you seem to have no problem appointing yourself to the job.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

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#142009
Jul 11, 2013
 
the dark lord wrote:
<quoted text>
i have somewhat of a den:
but its a shared facility.
what i need is a command tower base,
for this i need government intervention.
and someone to liaise if not delegate
over spending rights.
scientifically i live out a Mac
someone said it kinda small time,
but the projects i am involved
with are anything but smalltime.
in fact some are of massive scale
and proportions like the
flag ship Uber Allis
with was the giant mother ship out of
'Star Wars' doing all the
astro physical engineering to
this space ship practically turning some
drawings into a real flyable space ship.
i am currently working with the concept
of nano space engineering technology (NSET):
as i have commonly called it.
I see ... you are a legend in your own mind. I can tell!

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

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#142010
Jul 11, 2013
 
Believer wrote:
Where there is no faith, there is no hope!
Where there is no hope, there is no purpose!
Where there is no purpose, there is no purpose.
HWHETHLHH
There is no truth in faith. Where there is no truth, there is no real hope or real purpose.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

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#142011
Jul 11, 2013
 
SonRisen wrote:
<quoted text>
If your purpose is to have faith and hope then your purpose is to spread the word of God. To share his glory and his wisdom. Or I guess you can be like you and have no purpose but to run down what you don't understand and run down what you feel threatened by. Let me guess you pray at times just in case, you probably go to church at times but you feel you have to go for other reasons than yourself because part of you think it is all BS while the other part says what if. Well all those choices are yours to make. Choose wisely grasshopper for you can either seal your fate shut or open your fate and go. It all comes down to you. But I can clearly see that you sort of want to believe but at the sametime you come here and feel like a fool because it dos not fit in with the crowd/clique. So to be sure you are liked now you run God down and just go along with the crowd. Hey that is all good if that is what you choose. Just be ready for the misery when you follow that same crowd to helll!
Can you prove either your God or your hell exist? Or are you just futily flapping your face again?

“I have upset the hand of god”

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

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#142012
Jul 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
For folks who are not supposed to judge others, you seem to have no problem appointing yourself to the job.
Seems that someone has snatched the intelligence from my stalkers hand.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#142013
Jul 11, 2013
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith is believing things without a rational justification for doing so. That is not required to have hope.
.

I disagree on your first point (above). Faith should have some rational justification. If it does not have that then it is just a delusion. Now, I don't doubt that many people who claim to be religious are actually more delusional than rational but in theory, if not in practice.

Per Paul Tillich:

In discussing the truth of faith, Tillich examines the relation between faith and reason. Faith is not in conflict with reason. Tillich says that reason is a precondition for faith, and that faith is an act in which reason ecstatically transcends itself.9 Ecstacy does not deny rationality, but fulfills it. Reason fulfills itself when it brings an awareness of the presence of ultimate reality.

Tillich believes that the truth of faith does not conflict with scientific truth, unless faith claims to express scientific truth, or unless science expresses faith in a particular model of reality. The truth of faith is also independent of historical truth, and historical truth is independent of the truth of faith.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/tillich...

Since: Jul 13

Houston, MO

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#142014
Jul 11, 2013
 
How many of you believe in God? Don't be shy. Step up and answer.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#142015
Jul 11, 2013
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Anthropogenic. Just sayin'.:)
heheh

whoops.

Lets see if UC focuses on that instead of the meaning of the actual post.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

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#142016
Jul 11, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree on your first point (above). Faith should have some rational justification. If it does not have that then it is just a delusion.
Jesus is God because the Bible says so, and the Bible is correct because it's the word of God, and I know it's the word of God because I have faith. Faith is just the stop-gap between belief and evidence. No evidence? That's ok. I've got faith. Rational justifications require evidence. No evidence, no rational justification. Religious beliefs are, generally, delusions. Mass delusions? Sure. Delusions brought about by social pressures and tradition due to an evolutionary history of societal compliance leading to greater chances of survival? Sure. Rationally justified? Nope.
Dogen wrote:
Now, I don't doubt that many people who claim to be religious are actually more delusional than rational but in theory, if not in practice.
Per Paul Tillich:
In discussing the truth of faith, Tillich examines the relation between faith and reason. Faith is not in conflict with reason. Tillich says that reason is a precondition for faith, and that faith is an act in which reason ecstatically transcends itself.
That is word salad bullshit. Define "reason ecstatically transcends itself" without resorting to further undefined and undefinable gibberish. Not your argument to defend initially, but if you're going to use it to justify your argument, you're going to have to defend it.
Dogen wrote:
Ecstacy does not deny rationality, but fulfills it. Reason fulfills itself when it brings an awareness of the presence of ultimate reality.
Tillich believes
I don't care what he believes. I care what he can demonstrate. If it ain't real, it doesn't exist. If it's real, it's demonstrable. There's a difference between "we don't have the means by which to demonstrate X" and "X is inherently impossible to demonstrate." If faith covers the huge pothole left behind by the latter, it's worthless. If it's somehow a justification for accepting the former, it's flawed but a baby step closer to rational.

Dogen wrote:
that the truth of faith does not conflict with scientific truth, unless faith claims to express scientific truth, or unless science expresses faith in a particular model of reality. The truth of faith is also independent of historical truth, and historical truth is independent of the truth of faith.
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/tillich...
Jesus was resurrected and there were witnesses. Historical truth is inconclusive, but there is no evidence to support this claim. Faith says it's true despite a complete lack of evidence to support the claim. No evidence + faith = it's true. Sorry, but that's irrational, it's bullshit, and it's nothing more than an argument from ignorance. It's an excuse that people give for believing things when there's no good reason to do so. Good reasons involve evidence. No evidence, no good reason. If there were evidence, they wouldn't NEED faith. That's the whole point.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

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#142017
Jul 11, 2013
 
SonRisen wrote:
How many of you believe in God? Don't be shy. Step up and answer.
Do you believe in Thor? If not, why not? Why would you risk not believing in Thor when you know it will result in you being condemned to Hel while the rest of us enjoy Valhalla?

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