Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#135346 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, maybe you don't yet understand how a creationist would define good and evil . If you look up the word fundamental you will see it is not exclusive to your worldview! HELLO!?
I think you need to look up the correct use of "me" and "I."
I was not referring to the act or state of mind that constitutes my belief system, and I'm pretty sure you know that. I am referring to the FUNDIMENTAL FACT that from a creation perspective good and evil have always been a FUNDIMENTAL of the life experience and reason for the life experience here on Earth.
Is that concept (even though I know you can't accept it) too difficult for you to understand.
Of course I understand, I just don’t accept it as a valid morality and you lying about it only makes the situation worse.

Knock knock, hello dufus,(you condescending a$$hole, you just lost whatever respect you believed you had).

The word fundamental (just like so many other words creatards try to hijack) is exclusive to the definition of the word and in no honest way can “faith” be described as fundamental. This is just one of the many instances of godbot lies brought on by deliberate ignorance. Faith in mythology can however be describe it as funny-mental

Ahh now this is where your ignorant condescension shows up your limited education.
Pray tell me why should I look up the correct use of me and I when I used it correctly. I realise you are probable not very well educated so I suggest you consider the English language and first look up the definition of methinks before sticking your fat foot in your big mouth.

I know what you were referring to, you were however in that referral using that particular way christards cherry pick and misuse words like truth, morality etc to big up your statement and attempt to give it credibility. I was pointing out your good old christian misuse of the word fundamental when you made that referral

There is NOTHING fundamental or factual about creationism or faith, there is no “perspective” about it. Dictionaries and common word usage back up what I say so there my argument ends, there is no real need to go further.

However if you feel the deliberate misuse of words is what you faith deserves then that’s fine by me, feel free to carry on now you are aware of the implications of lying for your god.

FYI, I was raised christian, good christians drove me from the church and since then both my children and myself have been on the receiving end of good christian terror and violence.

So a little hint for the future, don’t ever be stupid enough to try telling me what I accept and understand unless you are sure of your facts. Guesswork and godbotism is just not good enough and shows your type to be nothing more than desperate.
One way or another

Hollywood, FL

#135347 Jun 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop making irrelevant points and think, for a change. Well, you probably cannot even remember how the cannonball analogy worked anyway as it was more than three days ago. Just a lost cause. Sorry I even tried.
Refute your ridiculous theory? Its too silly to even discuss.
Excuses and deceit are the best ya got chimney.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#135348 Jun 13, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuses and deceit are the best ya got chimney.
Broken record.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#135349 Jun 13, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
The entire mindset of the atheist is a total disregard for any absolute standards.
Christine believes that DNA is no more complex than a pile of leaves.
It is believed that morality is whatever "feels" good.
It is believed that one can equate a random hodgepodge of sounds to a Mozart symphony.
Beauty is believed to be only a perception in the mind of man... In other words, it doesn't exist.
It is challenging to argue with someone so detached from reality.
Have you seen the patterns that a pile of leave can form? Yes I am sure you have however they are simply patterns made of hundreds, thousands, perhaps millions of individual items. Honey, I am an artist and understand patterns so stop trying to decry what you are incapable of understanding juts because you are incapable of understanding.

Believed by who? Please name them… waiting…. OK, I will, one at least, godbots believe that morality to be the good of the babble and bad to be non belief in the babble. There so now that describes what feels good to HTS?

Actually this is true, amazing but true, auditory agnosia is the name for it. It is also know that some people see sounds as colours a syndrome called synesthesia. So your point is what? That all people are not the same, yes this as because of DNA mutations that mean every person, no matter how closely related has different DNA to their forbears and hence evolution continues on it’s merry way. Well done for raising that point.

Are you saying that perception does not exist? So why do you perceive the babble? FYI, emotions, mental activity can be measured and if it can be measured then it exists

It may be challenging for you to argue valid points of reality with anyone but that’s just your own problem because you have nothing to argue with.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#135350 Jun 13, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
It's laughable to watch an atheist pretend to be outraged by moral incertitude, given their complete absence of any foundation for morality.
Yawn, you keeping battling your own strawmen and losing.

Imagine, if you possibly can, that God did not exist. What rules would humans put in place to maximise the chances of orderly, harmonious, pleasant, and secure living conditions?

Probably something very close to what they have right now.

That is the foundation of morality, even yours, whether you want to dress it up in magic robes or not.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#135351 Jun 13, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuses and deceit are the best ya got chimney.
Projection.

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

Ilford, UK

#135352 Jun 13, 2013
HTS say we have free will.

i would like to refute that we do have free will?

Firstly i created the world as its foundered upon my computer logical series of mathematical equations.

no god

no you

just me

this cyberbia is the greatest invention of them all

most people these days are stooges to make the name up

the world is spans the quadrant

were currently on earth series

planets are secondary to life

NOW for the argument!

“GOD ALMIGHTY”

Since: Aug 12

Ilford, UK

#135353 Jun 13, 2013
freewill.

this cyberbia was agreed on by two IT Robots and three x and q bots.

totally aghast

who makes the decisions for this planet?

not i

not you

rarely anyone

few have what we call freewill

to actually see there thoughts personified in real life

five techno geeks decided my test theorem

they got a small army of cloned humans to put it into practise notice

intellectual property is the hottest thing around!

shame it all doens't belong to us aye ed

would be blooming rich.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135354 Jun 13, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You have attempts to define your version of morality.
You have not addressed the issue of free will.
How can man exercise self determination if everything he does is ultimately subservient to chemical reactions?
We call it a brain. You should consider getting one.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135355 Jun 13, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not disagreeing with that ethic.
I'm trying to get you to look deeper into the issue.
You speak of morality as some sort of absolute truth.
Is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong?
I say no. The context also has to be considered.
Is it wrong to kill?
Is it wrong for a rapist to kill his victim?
Is it wrong for you to kill to defend your children?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135356 Jun 13, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because evolution makes a successful prediction that's compatible with ID does not substantiate ID, it substantiates evolution. Problem is if the evidence were entirely different it would STILL be compatible with ID.
I mentioned earlier that he presents a false dilemma. Whether ToE is correct or not has no bearing on the validity of ID. ID must stand on its own.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135357 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
It won't matter how much knowledge you attain in your lifetime if you cease to exist when you die, unless you use that knowledge for the good of all mankind that will come after you.
Just what good are you doing anyone by calling them stupid, uneducated, idiots, and worse of all fools! And all because they choose a worldview that you don't understand.
Creationists pose no threat to scientific research. We are just as involved in scientific research and discovery, and have reaped the benefits of that research just as you have.
We choose to believe there is a supernatural intelligent designer. This explains the answer to the origin of life FOR US.
You react to anyone with a creationist worldview as if they pose a threat to you in some way. Believe me, we don't.
And as for pushing our views "down your throat," you will not find many believers who think they have the right or responsibility to try to convince you, once (if you are approached by one) you tell him or her that you are not interested.
The Bible tells us to tell the Good News to those who would want to hear it. We can't tell if you are one searching for what we believe God is offering by your outward appearance.
Just a little human kindness is all you need to deal with those you like to call creatards!
Is that more than you are capable of giving your fellow man, a simple "no thank you not interested"?
The Dover Area School District did exactly that. Tried to shove religion down the throats of their students. They got their asses sued, got thrown out of office and pissed away over $1,000,000 dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Do...

So don't try to tell us they don't. They do.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#135358 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is suggesting teaching Creationism as fact. Until it can be disproven, and the majority of Americans still claim to believe in God, it should certainly be taught as one possible worldview!
Any other " conversation" you say we should have would be for what purpose? I frankly don't see what possible difference it should Mae to you what my personal worldview might be!
So, you think anything that cannot be disproved should be treated as equally valid as anything else?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135359 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, that is my point exactly. I think I am about average when it comes to "science" when compared to the average educated individual. Compared to a science major in college or a science professor or a scientist or engineer....that is way over my head...not necessarily to understand, but in knowledge gained through prior study.
I hate pretense! I don't fully understand much of what is discussed here. I am not at all ashamed to admit my lack of knowledge in many, many things.
What I can tell you is what I know to be true from what I have learned in my many years of life.
Faith in God satisfies my mind to answer all the questions we all have that Science has not found answers to.
I look forward to all scientific research will do to improve our lives in the future. And I am thankful for what it has done for us in the past.
I just happen to choose to think there is something greater, something that gives life meaning, and something that brings peace to a broken heart, compassion for my fellow man, and hope that all that we suffer here on this earth is not in vain.
My existence and the choice I have made to live with faith in the God of the Bible is not a threat or a hindrance to you in your life choices in any way.
Do you really think you are accomplishing anything on here that is worth the anger and frustration you seem to feel in all of your comments?
I have no problem with your beliefs. You have every right to them even if I don't share them.

I doubt seriously that any on the evolution side is really angry with any of you. Frustrated? Certainly. Immensely so. Here's why...

You claim that your god created the universe in six days. If so, then why do fundamentalists deny all the evidence left of creation by that god? They absolutely deny the evidence of 'creation' in favor of an old book that they have *no* first hand knowledge of who may have written it.

When the reasons why the Genesis account is incorrect is carefully (and repeatedly) explained, they come up with all kinds of excuses as to why reality is wrong and the book is right. In effect, they deny the obvious evidence that you god left for us to discover in favor of the book of dubious authorship.

So I ask you, why do they deny everything this god left right in front of our faces? Is your god's universe a fake or is Genesis a nice (and incorrect) way of trying to explain how we got here? They both cannot be correct.

The frustration level increases each time this is replayed.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135360 Jun 13, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Playing stupid becomes you.
BEING stupid defines you.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135361 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is suggesting teaching Creationism as fact.
Not true.
Believer wrote:
Until it can be disproven...
It has been.
Believer wrote:
...and the majority of Americans still claim to believe in God, it should certainly be taught as one possible worldview!
In Sunday school, fine. In a science class, never.
Believer wrote:
Any other " conversation" you say we should have would be for what purpose? I frankly don't see what possible difference it should Mae to you what my personal worldview might be!
It doesn't. It only matters when you preach to us. Or your school district.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135362 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is your proof that the a Bible is superstition and mythology?
Some of it is.
Believer wrote:
You don't even have evidence much less proof of that statement!
We do.
Believer wrote:
Where is your proof there was no great flood?
We call it geology. Look into it.
Believer wrote:
What would possibly make you say that people of faith have dismissed science in general?
No one is claiming ALL have. But a good percentage have.
Believer wrote:
That is an unbelievably inappropriate statement for one so "intelligent" to make. A child would know better than that!
Inappropriate? Why is it inappropriate to correct someone misconceptions or ignorance of a subject?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#135363 Jun 13, 2013
HTS wrote:
So, you believe that for me to think logically and scientifically, I should discard common sense and simply expand my imagination to accommodate the dogmas of evolution.
You already discarded common sense long ago.
HTS wrote:
You think I'm stupid for rejecting the suggestion that randomly inserted sequences do nucleotides could code for complexities in the host?
Yes, unashamedly stupid.
HTS wrote:
My Monkey-Shakespeare analogy is valid. OK, I won't require him to produce a specific work of Shakespeare.. Let him type ANY meaningful text in ANY language.
It's not valid at all. There are 7 billion different ways to make a human. All of them with random bits of DNA that no other person has. That kind of thing amounts to typos and discrepancies in books. But not necessarily in humans.
HTS wrote:
If a host was infected, those sequences didn't appear one nucleotide at a time through natural selection. You're saying that thousands of nucleotides just happened to code for something purposeful.
That is no different than believing that a monkey could type anything meaningful.
Ah, but what is the "purpose" of life? I am not pointing out that they code for something "purposeful", as that is a subjective philosophical concept. But what I am pointing out is that DNA provides characteristics, and with different DNA we have different characteristics. If the new DNA kills the organism then it's goodnight vienna. But if it doesn't then it can remain in the genome if not selected out. And if it remains it can possibly eventually lead to new characteristics. "Purpose" is not the issue here, as that is merely the philosophical assumption your entire theology is based upon. Survival is what it's about. As long as the organism survives we don't have a problem.

Your ONLY issue is that you personally cannot conceive how new DNA leads to new characteristics, even though new DNA is added to genomes every day all over the planet. Your issues with reality are your problem and your problem only.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#135364 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting! And I'd be curious to know what you see as the difference in thinking between you and your fellow man who chooses to kill for fun, hates his fellow man if thinks he has a reason.
A reason like "God commands it?"
Believer wrote:
Out of common sense thinking would you not say that moral absolutes are more than a personal choice.
Common sense is one of the most useless concepts known to man. But, beyond that, define "moral absolute." I predict that how you define it will necessarily result in such a concept being unreal.
Believer wrote:
Do you think there are forces for good and forces for evil working in the world to influence us to choose one or the other?
You speak of "good" and "evil" as though they are entities that do something. They're nothing more than labels we place upon actions done by people.

Is it "good" or "evil" to murder an entire city so you can kidnap the virgin girls who live there?
Believer wrote:
It can't be life experience all the time, because some choose the opposite of how they have been raised or how they themselves have been treated.
Have you ever considered saying things that aren't ridiculous and wrong?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#135365 Jun 13, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Nowhere in the Bible does it say the universe is very young.
Agreed. However, that is the position of most fundamentalists.
Believer wrote:
Worldwide as we view the world, not necessarily. In Noah's day the known world was still small and believed by most to be flat.
So you agree that it was not global but only the perception of the people of the time.
Believer wrote:
There is plenty of archeological and fossil evidence of a great flood.
But not a global flood. We know there are places on earth that have never been flooded since man has walked the earth.
Believer wrote:
Accounts of such a flood were discovered in the archeological ruins of other ancient cultures as well.
Yes, we know. Floods happen. No big shocker.

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