Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180392 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#127787 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
MANY NATIONS
Stop wriggling around squealing like a stuck pig, mate
So you don't like that Bible prophesy is true
So you're trying like a headless chook to to 'disprove' scripture by ignoring inconvenient posts
God said He would bring many nations against Tyre....like waves of the sea......many waves....many nations
Which part of that simple verse is not clear?
Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Tyre.
The bible is wrong.
What part of that simple concept can you not grasp?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127788 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
And of course "clever you" will soon be showing me the mistakes in his science, right....?
I'm still waiting for a rebuttal of the HLA-DRB comments...
How long has it been now....?
....months?
Yes, how long have you been avoiding learning what evidence is?

I have said time after time that I would be happy to answer your questions if you learned what evidence is.

There is no real need to debunk Gitt. He debunks himself.

Don't you idiots ever wonder why men capable of writing peer reviewable quality papers avoid it when it comes to certain subjects?

That is a clear indicator that they know their work would not pass peer review. That means that Gitt knows his work would not pass peer review. It is fatally flawed.

The article I linked earlier lists that flaw. Read it.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127789 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
MANY NATIONS
Stop wriggling around squealing like a stuck pig, mate
So you don't like that Bible prophesy is true
So you're trying like a headless chook to to 'disprove' scripture by ignoring inconvenient posts
God said He would bring many nations against Tyre....like waves of the sea......many waves....many nations
Which part of that simple verse is not clear?
I am not wriggling fool.

And you are the only one sounding like a stuck pig here.

I dealt with your "Many nations" quote several times already. It is not my fault if you don't like the answer.

The verse is very clear to me, why isn't it clear to you? My version works perfectly well with the fact that the prophesy is failed and matches the next verses much better than your version does.

Do people live on Tyre today?

What part of "never be rebuilt" don't you understand. The whole area has been rebuilt several times. That is common with ancient cities like Tyre.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127790 Apr 22, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me answer this again. Here you go putz:
7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar[b] king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army.
Here is a reference to a GREAT army, many horses

But notice the constant use of "HE" ---> Nebuchadnezzar
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you.
If there was a GREAT army, which there was, then why say "THEY" in these passages?

Why the continued use of "HE" and "HIM"?

It's because the prophesy is specifically referring to Nebuchadnezzar
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons.

10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust.
More "HE's"

His horses will be so many....etc

That's all reference to Nebuchadnezzar
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through.
More Nebuchadnezzar
"HE"

It is well known and well accepted, even by you, you misotheist, that Nebuchadnezzar was not alone

He brought a vast army with him

His siege was LAND based
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.
More "HE"

:. more Nebuchadnezzar

He, Nebuchadnezzar, with his VAST ARMY were referred to as "HE" and "HIS"

This is a clear differentiation from what follows

Keeping in mind Ezekiel 26:3 as the over arching or HEADLINE scripture

Therefore the sudden departure from "HE" and "HIS" to "THEY" and "THEM" clearly refers to the MANY NATIONS

Obviously

The VAST army that was Nebuchadnezzar, many men, many horses, were distinctly separated by the "HE" and "HIS" as opposed to the "THEY" and "THEM" of the following verses---->
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.
All Nebby and his men, his horses, HIS. The "they" in verse 12 clearly refers to Nebby and HIS men.
Taking verses out of context is a form of lying.
Your desperation is obvious

You continue to avoid reference to Ezekiel 26:3

Why is that?

Is it because you are forced to stare at MANY NATIONS when you do quote it?

The Lord said He would bring MANY NATIONS against Tyre

Here is a link to the Hebrew--->
http://biblelexicon.org/ezekiel/26-3.htm

And here is Matthew Henry's Whole Bible commentary, which you may not be aware is a highly valued Bible commentary, a must-have on the bookshelf of any Bible scholar

I'm no Bible scholar, but even lowly me has a copy of these multi-volume commentaries on my bookshelf

----------

You're wrong about the "HIS" and the "THEY" referring to the same person

It is universally accepted that the "HIS" includes Nebuchadnezzar and his men

And that the "THEY" and "THEM" refers to the many nations
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127791 Apr 22, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, how long have you been avoiding learning what evidence is?
I have said time after time that I would be happy to answer your questions if you learned what evidence is.
There is no real need to debunk Gitt. He debunks himself.
Don't you idiots ever wonder why men capable of writing peer reviewable quality papers avoid it when it comes to certain subjects?
That is a clear indicator that they know their work would not pass peer review. That means that Gitt knows his work would not pass peer review. It is fatally flawed.
The article I linked earlier lists that flaw. Read it.
When has Werner avoided peer review?

Show me where
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127792 Apr 22, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
His 'argument'(if you can call it that) is that 4 nucleotides is the most efficient way of encoding genetic information. BFD. Still doesn't make it a computer code.
Therefore you are wrong

The Quaternary Triplet Code is the most efficient of all possibilities

Now kindly demonstrate how this "code" came about

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127793 Apr 22, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
His 'argument'(if you can call it that) is that 4 nucleotides is the most efficient way of encoding genetic information. BFD. Still doesn't make it a computer code.
And one thing that evolution does support is efficiency. It might be wasteful at times, but if there is a more efficient way to do something evolution will naturally find it with the combination of variation and natural selection. The limited way that those principles worked even in abiogenesis helped to form DNA.

Sadly rusty will keep his eyes closed and pretend that he understands the liars and idiots that he worships.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127794 Apr 22, 2013
Correction--->

In my post above

"If there was a GREAT army, which there was, then why say "THEY" in these passages?

Why the continued use of "HE" and "HIM"?"

Should read:

If there was a great army, which there was, then why NOT say "THEY" in these passages?

Why the continued use of "HE" and "HIM"?

==========

Like DNA polymerase.........I self correct

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127795 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore you are wrong
The Quaternary Triplet Code is the most efficient of all possibilities
Now kindly demonstrate how this "code" came about
Why is he wrong?

Evolution would find the most efficient code.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127796 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
When has Werner avoided peer review?
Show me where
I assume in the book and articles where he makes his creationist claims.

Let's see the peer review articles that support his claims.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127797 Apr 22, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
2) The names of the nucleotides - guanine, adenine, thymine, and cytosine - are symbolic descriptors. For example, guanine comes from the Spanish guano but the name is simply a reference to its discovery. It does not mean guanine is actual bird shit.
Good boy for working that one out

Well done 99

<Trying to be encouraging....of course ...it has NOTHING to do with my question...but never mind...we're off to a start>
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127798 Apr 22, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is he wrong?
Evolution would find the most efficient code.
This is what he wrote
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
1) A quaternary numeral system is not better than a binary numeral system any more than either is better than octal or hexadecimal. All can be used to express values and are interchangeable in positional numeral systems.
For the DNA it has to be a Quaternery Triplet code

How do you propose evolution dunnit?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#127799 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore you are wrong
The Quaternary Triplet Code is the most efficient of all possibilities
So what? Evolution would account for the same thing.
Russell wrote:
Now kindly demonstrate how this "code" came about
It's not a code. Regardless of what Werner Twitt claims.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#127800 Apr 22, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not wriggling fool.
Do people live on Tyre today?
What part of "never be rebuilt" don't you understand. The whole area has been rebuilt several times. That is common with ancient cities like Tyre.
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, haven't you noticed when idiots like rusty, or you, get spanked very hard and very publicly that your kind tend to hide a day or two. Meanwhile the Stupid is bubbling and boiling in your blood. You can't help but to come back and to make the same idiotic mistakes all over again and hope that people don't notice this time around how wrong you are?
Are you going to defend rusty in his Tyre defense who said the city would never be rebuilt and then quoted an article that described how Tyre had been rebuilt?
Don't be so silly

Tyre has not been rebuilt any more than a hobo setting up a lean-to on the site of the World Trade Centre implies that those buildings have been rebuilt

Are you even partially aware of what Tyre was?

It was called the Queen of the Sea

This is described by Padfield who is quoting Oliver Goldsmith here----->

"Tyre, the famous Phoenician seaport, is located 20 miles south of Sidon on the Mediterranean coast. During the conquest of the promised land by Joshua the Canaanites were not driven out of Tyre and other Phoenician cities as God commanded. "This city was justly entitled the 'Queen of the Sea,' that element bringing to it the tribute of all nations. She boasted of having first invented navigation and taught mankind the art of braving the winds and waves by the assistance of a frail bark. The happy situation of Tyre, at the upper end of the Mediterranean; the conveniency of its ports, which were both safe and capacious; and the character of its inhabitants, who were industrious, laborious, patient, and extremely courteous to strangers, invited thither merchants from all parts of the globe; so that it might be considered, not so much a city belonging to any particular nation, as the common city of all nations and the centre of their commerce."

---Oliver Goldsmith, Alexander Reduces Tyre.

Which, as an exception to my general rule, you may see here--->

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Great_Event...

Simply because this is an ancient book--> Goldsmith 1728–1774

And getting your nose in a book is like....well, evolution....
It's impossible

----------
None of the ancient Phoenician buildings are available today

The land-based Paleo-tyre is buried under rubble

The sea based island Tyre is under the ocean

UC is absolutely right

Alexander used the rubble from Paleo-tyre to build his causeway
The famous mole

Here is Ezekiel 26:21:

I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord."

(New International Version translation)

==========
Show me any ancient Phoenician artifacts or any ancient Phoenician building

May be you can find a relic from the Temple of Heracles?

Here, try the British Museum

They have EVERYTHING under the sun

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/cultures...

Ancient Phoenician Tyre seems to be missing......?

Where did it go?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127801 Apr 22, 2013
rusty, you make me laugh. Your attempt to use "he" and "they" is pathetic. The "they" in the verse I quoted is just the He and his that appear earlier. Nothing more.

There is no mention of a rest of 300 years between attacks. You are the one who is trying to extend the length of the failed prophesy it is up to you to find it.

And even if you could include Alexander the Great, and as you know you can't. Once again 'you will see a red car'. You make the prophecy trivial if you try to do sol

Annnnnnd, even if we allow your trivialization of the prophesy it STILL fails.

It is clear that all references to Tyre in the verses are of the island city. That was the city that was supposed to be destroyed. That was where Tyre got its wealth from. The purple dye that its local sea life made was in heavy demand for anyone who wanted to be king, anywhere. The city was never utterly destroyed. Even under the attacks of Alexander the Great half of the population escaped and eventually repopulated the island.

It was never to be built upon again. Even the ruins put the lie to that claim since the ruins on Tyre are Roman ruins. They were built well after Alexander the Great's conquest of the island.

So let's review. Nebby failed at attacking Tyre. He was clearly predicted to do so.

The prophesy failed.

Even if you count Alexander the prophesy still fails. Tyre is occupied today. The prophesy claims otherwise.

That is why Tyre is a terribly failed prophesy. Even if we give you your false claim of how the waves of attack would come we can point out that people still live there today.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127802 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what he wrote
<quoted text>
For the DNA it has to be a Quaternery Triplet code
How do you propose evolution dunnit?
When are you going to learn how scientific evidence works?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127803 Apr 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Don't be so silly
Tyre has not been rebuilt any more than a hobo setting up a lean-to on the site of the World Trade Centre implies that those buildings have been rebuilt
No, the sea based island of Tyre is not under the sea. It is where it always was. And you don't get to decide whether it was rebuilt or not. That is up to the people that live there. It has been rebuilt, not once but several times. As I said if you check the ruins on he southern part of the island are Roman ruins. That means the Romans rebuilt after Alexander conquered the island.

Poor fool rusty, he thinks "rebuilt" means that the ancient buildings would be rebuilt. That is not implied by that word at all.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127804 Apr 22, 2013
It looks like rusty has an endless supply of Stupid today. Along with a huge side of denial.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127805 Apr 22, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
There is an extensive record of His life. In the Bible and other written works, in art, in music, in churches, in OUR CALENDAR...EVERYWHERE! His life and death was also prophesied in great detail. There is no excuse.
All of these "Other" records are based on the bible, so they really aren't "other" records at all. There were OT "prophesies" about someone called "Immanueal" not "Jesus" so that prophesy is a FAIL. All you have is one since source for this Jesus myth which originates in oral legends of goatherders 2000 years ago. Basically, you've got no evidence at all.

BTW, Our CALENDAR was invented 1500 years ago by a guy named "Dennis the Short" which is why the Chinese and Hindu cultures have different calendars.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127806 Apr 22, 2013
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lebanon/south-of-...

"With the fall of the Assyrians in 612 BC, Tyre was peaceably controlled by the Neo-Babylonians until 586 BC, when it once again rebelled, leading to a 13-year siege by the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar. The inhabitants stood firm behind the high walls of the island-city and the siege failed."

Oh no, Nebby failed

"More successful, however, was the campaign of Alexander the Great. In 332 BC he marched along coastal Phoenicia exacting tribute from all its city-states. Tyre, in time-honoured tradition, resisted and prepared for a long siege. The city was considered impregnable, but Alexander began building a sea bridge to reach the city, under a constant hail of missiles from the Tyrians. Meanwhile, on the mainland, Alexander’s engineers were constructing 20-storey siege towers, the tallest ever used in the history of war. After several months these great war machines lumbered across the land bridge and the battle for Tyre began in earnest.

Running low on supplies and morale, Tyre finally fell after seven months and Alexander, enraged at the dogged resistance of the Tyrians, allowed his troops to sack the city. The city’s 30, 000 citizens were massacred or sold into slavery. This destruction heralded the domination of the Greeks in the Mediterranean. Alexander’s legacy lives on in Tyre, as the land bridge he created became the permanent link between the old city and the mainland, and Tyre became a peninsula."

Tyre was finally defeated, but not by Nebby or by HIS men.

"
The city eventually recovered from its devastation and, after a period of Seleucid rule following Alexander’s death, became autonomous in 126 BC. In 64 BC, Tyre became a Roman province, then the capital of the Roman province of Syria-Phoenicia.

Later Tyre became one of the first Lebanese towns to adopt Christianity and was the seat of an archbishopric, with 14 bishoprics under its control. In the Byzantine period, flourishing silk, glass and murex industries, producing the prized purple dye, saw the city prosper.

The Arabs took the city in AD 635, and its prosperity continued. The Umayyad caliph, Mu’awiyah, transformed the city into a naval base and it was from here that the first Arab fleet set sail to conquer Cyprus."

Bad times for a short while for Tyre. But the people returned and they rebuilt the city. Wait a second, wasn't that never supposed to be built upon again?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Science / Technology Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 1 min Jiminez ocho 69,654
Wismec Exo Skeleton ES300,Powerful yet Intelligent 10 hr luckyluckyluke 1
SMOK GX2/4 Kit Only USD55.55 Sun olysodaisy 1
News Scientists astonished by weird star deep in space Sun Suezanne 6
News Strange signals from space and black holes: Ast... Sun Fundie Fatwazz Aroma 4
Is Time An Illusion? (May '10) Sat SoE 14,076
News Basquiat tops Warhol after painting sells for $... May 19 Christian Taliban 3
More from around the web