Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124485 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How was flood geology debunked before Darwin?
Are you serious?

You don't know the history of Geology at all?

http://www.wmnh.com/wmas0002.htm

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#124486 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
You are utterly wrong
How on earth does evolution help with immunisations?
That's the blind wishful thinking you are completely fooled by
Dr Mark Kirschner, founding chair of teh Department of Systems Biology at Harvard School of Medicine stated:
" In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except for evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all."
--Quoted in the Boston Globe 23 Oct 2005
----Additionally
"In 1942, Nobel Laureate Ernst Chain wrote that his discovery of penicillin (with Howard Florey and Alexander Fleming) and the development of bacterial resistance to that antibiotic owed nothing to Darwin's and Alfred Russel Wallace's evolutionary theories.
The same can be said about a variety of other 20th-century findings: the discovery of the structure of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; new surgeries; and other developments.
Additionally, I have queried biologists working in areas where one might have thought the Darwinian paradigm could guide research, such as the emergence of resistance to antibiotics and pesticides. Here, as elsewhere, I learned that evolutionary theory provides no guidance when it comes to choosing the experimental designs. Rather, after the breakthrough discoveries, it is brought in as a narrative gloss. "
---The Dangers Of Overselling Evolution
Philip S. Skell, 02.23.09, 01:47 PM EST
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/23/evolution-cr...
----------
You have been hoodwinked by a bunch of lies
Speaking of "lies"....I smell a quote-mine. Looking into just that.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124487 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the problem idiot?
Do you hate having the same standards applied to you that you try to apply to everyone else?
That makes you a hypocrite.
Hypocrites hate it when they get beaten at a game they started. Especially when their opponents use the same rules that they are.
What a douchebag.
So
You got nnothing
Just hysterical nonsense as usual

Go back to bed....
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124488 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you serious?
You don't know the history of Geology at all?
http://www.wmnh.com/wmas0002.htm
Uniformitarianism....

That's your evidence

You just get dumb and dumber dont you?

Just because someone says so, SubDUD

Doesn't make it so

http://creation.com/early-arguments-for-deep-...

http://creation.com/flood-transported-quartzi...

http://creation.com/african-planation-surface

http://creation.com/a-giant-cause
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124489 Mar 21, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of "lies"....I smell a quote-mine. Looking into just that.
No
What you smell is the stench of the rotting corpse of evo-god

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#124490 Mar 21, 2013
From an article pointing out the Marc Kirschner quote-mine:

'This particular quote from Kirschner appeared in the October 23, 2005 issue of the Boston Globe. Want to know how the article read immediately following this paragraph?

<<quote>>‘If anything, Kirschner and Gerhart hope their book will have an impact at least as substantial on their colleagues in biology. For too long, they say, researchers in its different domains-from evolutionists in the field to cell biologists in the lab-have remained isolated.”I wouldn’t call it an antagonism as much as one not knowing anything about the other,” Gerhart offers.’ <<end quote>>

John Gebhert is Kirschner’s co-author of the aforementioned book. See, within the context, Kirschner is simply expressing the need for the various fields of biology to reach out to each other and collaborate more so than they have been. That’s all. He’s not saying anything about discrediting the process of evolution itself, but rather he is calling out for evolutionary biologists (and others) to strengthen their collaborative efforts. It is also important to note that he made this plea during the time of the now famous trials in Dover, PA, which involved creationists trying to push ‘intelligent design’ as high school curriculum.

<<end cut/paste>>

http://psuatheistagnostic.wordpress.com/tag/r...

Have you fundies have no honor, no shame at all?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#124491 Mar 21, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen, you don't intimidate me in the slightest.

Why would I intimidate you? What would make you come to the conclusion that I was attempting to do so.

HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Engaging in these discussions has only reaffirmed in my mind the abject stupidity of the Darwinian hypothesis.

I am aware of how cognitive dissonance works.

HTS wrote:
<quoted text> You guys rant and scream and pretend to make points... yet it is so pathetically obvious that you are only trying to justify your worldview with pseudoscience.

I am aware of how projection works.
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Dogen, in all of your theatrics you have not presented a single piece of scientific evidence in support of evolution.

This is false as anyone looking through these thread can see for themselves. Does being willing to lie for your god make you a better fundie?
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> When points are made that refute your beliefs, you rant and scream, hurl insults, and imagine that you've made a point.

You might be right. Why don't you try making a point that refutes my beliefs and we can monitor my reaction. That is, after all, what I have been asking for over the last few years.

All of this is an aside to what I stated in my last post.

There I pointed out you were arguing out of emotion and not rationality and mentioned that you were right to fear for your religious views when you find that science refutes them.

I also asked you to man up and accept your own culpability in this situation.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you are looking at this completely emotionally and filled with fear that your religious views are wrong. You are right to be afraid, your views on religion ARE wrong. But that is not Gods fault, nor the bibles fault or even sciences fault. The responsibility for that falls on you.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124492 Mar 21, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution theory revealed that not taking all of the antibiotics prescribed encouraged the evolution of drug resistant forms of the infecting parasites.
You haven't been paying attention.
Dont be a fool

Mostly when taking antibiotics the susceptible bacteria are killed off
The remaining, that are less susceptible and require longer treatment times, can multiply and cause a worse infection eg Clostridium difficile infection after a course of oral abx

Cases of antibiotic resistance in hospitals is due to MRSA --> a normally weak pathogen that could not compete in another environment

Bacteria have natural antibiotic resistance since they produce antibiotics themselves

Even on evo-time scales, bugs found from before man-made antibiotics, had antibiotic resistance

Its not evolution

Its a problem

But its not evolution

Bacteria can pass genes, plasmids, from one another, that confer resistance

Additionally mutations can break down existing biochem pathways that render the organism weaker, but fortuitiously also confer resistance

----------
Whats happening in the education system in the US these day?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124493 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever heard of drownings where bodies float and rot?
How is fossil formation an extremely commin event in sea life?
I have yet to see half buried fish waiting fossilization over "millions of years" when I'm scuba dicing
What is seen is dead fish being devoured by other animals
I'm thinking....
...something that starts with a "d" ....sounds like "um".....
Major reading fail by our jimbo runner up.

Please note the all important word relatively in my answer.

Sea life fossilizes much more easily than terrestrial life.

I guess once an idiot always an idiot.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124494 Mar 21, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I intimidate you? What would make you come to the conclusion that I was attempting to do so.
<quoted text>
I am aware of how cognitive dissonance works.
<quoted text>
I am aware of how projection works.
<quoted text>
This is false as anyone looking through these thread can see for themselves. Does being willing to lie for your god make you a better fundie?
<quoted text>
You might be right. Why don't you try making a point that refutes my beliefs and we can monitor my reaction. That is, after all, what I have been asking for over the last few years.
All of this is an aside to what I stated in my last post.
There I pointed out you were arguing out of emotion and not rationality and mentioned that you were right to fear for your religious views when you find that science refutes them.
I also asked you to man up and accept your own culpability in this situation.
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you are looking at this completely emotionally and filled with fear that your religious views are wrong. You are right to be afraid, your views on religion ARE wrong. But that is not Gods fault, nor the bibles fault or even sciences fault. The responsibility for that falls on you.
Dogem
Why do you keep quoting yourself?

It rather narcissistic
And you make me suffer twice

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124495 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Uniformitarianism....
That's your evidence
You just get dumb and dumber dont you?
Just because someone says so, SubDUD
Doesn't make it so
http://creation.com/early-arguments-for-deep-...
http://creation.com/flood-transported-quartzi...
http://creation.com/african-planation-surface
http://creation.com/a-giant-cause
No, not just because somebody says so is not the reason I believe geologists. It is all repeatable science.

You on the other hand are guilty of that crime and linked a group of idiots that is guilty of that crime too.

Not one of those articles is backed up by an real science at all. They took a cursory look at some rocks and tried to explain it through a book of myths. Now that is about as dumb as a bad of hammers.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124496 Mar 21, 2013
It is always fun to go to creatard.com for a few good laughs. It is amazing how idiotically wrong they are about science. Not only their own conclusions but what they claim other scientists believe.

The only chance to "win" an argument is to build a strawman of others beliefs and try to argue against that.

Forget all that garbage right now. Tow words that cause creatards to soil their pants with idiocy:

Incised meanders.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#124497 Mar 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is, they're (fossils) not in any particular order, except the order they were buried in during "their" catastrophy.
But, that doesn't explain why various organisms only get found in particular strata. A flood like you describe would not do that. At least, there are no known laws of physics that would support such a "sorting," as creationists call it.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#124498 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How was flood geology debunked before Darwin?
So, you know nothing of the history of geology.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#124499 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Uniformitarianism....
That's your evidence
You just get dumb and dumber dont you?
Just because someone says so, SubDUD
Doesn't make it so
http://creation.com/early-arguments-for-deep-...
http://creation.com/flood-transported-quartzi...
http://creation.com/african-planation-surface
http://creation.com/a-giant-cause
Yep - Creation.com is a legit scientific source - you are absolutely right to quote it.

From your last link

'Across the ocean, the tiny island of Staff, off the west coast of Scotland (near Mull and Iona), has similar rock outcrops.1,2 It is home to Fingal’s Cave (pictured). According to local folklore, the Irish giant Finn MacCool built the causeway so he could cross the sea to Scotland and do battle with his rival giant, Finn Gall.3 Tourist interpretive centres usually incorporate folk legends into their literature but are loath to present the true biblical perspective.'

Get a grip !!!!
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124500 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And you are quote mining again.
He was lamenting how little the extremely powerful tool of evolution had been used in the past for those purposes. That is not the case anymore.
Too bad you did not do a proper quote of him with links to his complete speech so that you would realize how creatard.com had misled you by lying to you again.
Let's see his complete speech then

Here's what I linked and its not from creation.com

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/23/evolution-cr...

"In 1942, Nobel Laureate Ernst Chain wrote that his discovery of penicillin (with Howard Florey and Alexander Fleming) and the development of bacterial resistance to that antibiotic owed nothing to Darwin's and Alfred Russel Wallace's evolutionary theories.

The same can be said about a variety of other 20th-century findings: the discovery of the structure of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; new surgeries; and other developments.

Additionally, I have queried biologists working in areas where one might have thought the Darwinian paradigm could guide research, such as the emergence of resistance to antibiotics and pesticides. Here, as elsewhere, I learned that evolutionary theory provides no guidance when it comes to choosing the experimental designs. Rather, after the breakthrough discoveries, it is brought in as a narrative gloss. "

But naturally, creation.com has some scathing things to say as well...

----------

So do tell

How does evolution help science?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124501 Mar 21, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep - Creation.com is a legit scientific source - you are absolutely right to quote it.
From your last link
'Across the ocean, the tiny island of Staff, off the west coast of Scotland (near Mull and Iona), has similar rock outcrops.1,2 It is home to Fingal’s Cave (pictured). According to local folklore, the Irish giant Finn MacCool built the causeway so he could cross the sea to Scotland and do battle with his rival giant, Finn Gall.3 Tourist interpretive centres usually incorporate folk legends into their literature but are loath to present the true biblical perspective.'
Get a grip !!!!
That's nice

What's your point?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124502 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
It is always fun to go to creatard.com for a few good laughs. It is amazing how idiotically wrong they are about science. Not only their own conclusions but what they claim other scientists believe.
The only chance to "win" an argument is to build a strawman of others beliefs and try to argue against that.
Forget all that garbage right now. Tow words that cause creatards to soil their pants with idiocy:
Incised meanders.
How's that an issue?
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#124503 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nice
What's your point?
That you still quote Creation.com as a legit scientific source - even though it includes crap like I referenced.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#124504 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How's that an issue?
Let me guess...

You will thank me for the free plug (don't get count it as positive advertising)

You will say Creation.com is reputable , even though it dismisses all evidence that is contrary to its 'SCIENCE RACIST BIGOTRY' as the bible has never been proved wrong.

Descend into puerile hand-waving

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Science / Technology Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Is Time An Illusion? (May '10) 6 min shinningelectr0n 7,499
News The man who dresses Beyonce 3 hr madoff zionism 1
News Community 4 hr El Chapo 3
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 4 hr Eagle 12 20,901
News Report: Some top baby monitors lack basic secur... Thu softball player 1
News Supreme Court smacks EPA for ignoring costs, bu... Thu abdaa 9
News IU researchers lead $1.2 million effort to unlo... Thu TW_sugar_daddio 6
More from around the web