Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 173,958

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114680 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The starting point is the genome size of T-rex which I est. at 2B bp. Seems reasonable. Birds and reptiles range around 1B to 3B bps. Sorry, but nobody to my knowledge has ever sequenced a dino DNA last time I checked. Maybe you have another suggestion?

Why would you go with birds and reptile DNA (remember, I am asking a creationist)?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#114681 Jan 18, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you go with birds and reptile DNA (remember, I am asking a creationist)?
I have to laugh at Urb who was so critical of radiometric dating (which is based on half-lives) but now hangs his hat on the very fuzzy DNA half-life.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114682 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw the amount in a rewiew of M. Schweitzer's article. I remember it was like 2,000 or 3,000 bps or not quite enough for a full gene but enough for some proteins. I tried to located the article but couldn't find it. Maybe I'll look again. But the point is that it doesn't matter. All I need is some remains. Even 1 bp would do it. If the 521 year half-life of DNA is correct, and it is published, peer-reviewed research, then this does not bode well for evolution given M. Schweitzer's research. Obviously I am thrilled and you guys hate it but it is what it is.

I am not sure how your misunderstanding of science either hurts evolution or makes us hate Schweitzer's groundbreaking research but whatever.

The "half-life" of DNA is a bigger issue. The term "half-life" was coined in reference to the logarithmic decay of radioactive isotopes. The analogy to something as completely different as DNA is interesting but it is clear but the analogy breaks down when looking at the real world. DNA degeneration does not necessary follow the same formula and certainly does not follow the same mechanism. The conditions under which it is preserved (or not) will be the determining factor in how long it will continue to be viable (in the biochemical sense). A forensic pathologist would tell you that DNA degradation is not a constant and that the conditions of preservation will effect how how long the DNA will be around. They had a lot of trouble sequencing the DNA of Jessie James (for example) and that was only 130 years ago.

"Nuclear DNA degrades at least twice as fast as mtDNA. As such, early studies that reported recovery of much older DNA, for example from Cretaceous dinosaur remains, may have stemmed from contamination of the sample."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_DNA#Anci...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114683 Jan 18, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
On the Holmes front ( can you see what I did there?- comedy gold)
Not sure if depends whether you have and ipad / kindle or whatnot but you can download the Sherlock collection for free - top stuff.
And on 'elementary' and apologies for getting a patriotic on your ass - much preferred 'Sherlock', done by the BBC - starring benedict cumberbatch and Martin freeman.
It sticks reasonably closely to the books but simply set in modern times.
Oh and we did it first you thieving yank scum :-)

LOL. Yes, lets give credit where credit is due. I have not seen the newer BBC version. I will have to give them a look.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#114684 Jan 18, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Mark your calenders: Next week is the one year anniversary of Jimmy falling on his ass.(And my birthday)
I have a feeling Jimbo was falling on his ass well before someone drew a simple diagram of how to post on Topix -- in crayon.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114685 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean you don't see any reference in Schweitzers research? It's clear as a bell! Why are you denying it? I quoted her own words. Are you saying she's a liar and the peer review process failed?

We are saying you did not understand what she said, in context.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#114686 Jan 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, but for the uneducated any transitional fossil could be called a missing link. There will always be some links never filled, it is the nature of the fossil record. Of course saying that is evidence of a miracle is the same as saying a miracle occurred if you did not have photographic evidence of your grandfather, but you had photographic evidence of your father and great grandfather.
And we could even claim that the missing link has been found, it is Homo Erectus. That is the imaginary line that Duane Gish and another creationist drew for us. I can't remember which creatard claimed what but they obviously forgot to talk to each other one claimed that H erectus was definitely a man and the other claimed he was definitely an ape. Of course the break off point from chimpanzees and bonobos was much earlier than that, I just love to use this as proof that even creationist "experts" cannot agree on who is a man and who is an ape.
And they never will agree, because if they actually settled on a specific definition, we would use it to demolish even more of their arguments. As it is, we keep demolishing moving targets, a little more challenging, but not significantly.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114687 Jan 18, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to laugh at Urb who was so critical of radiometric dating (which is based on half-lives) but now hangs his hat on the very fuzzy DNA half-life.

The whole science he is now embracing has been long subject to his denial efforts. It is amusing for him to now go on as if all these dating methods are true AND still deny dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago. Sadly, he will never understand why this makes us laugh.
One way or another

Hollywood, FL

#114688 Jan 18, 2013
The silly children are always having to make excuses and be deceitful, because they run their mouths before actually understanding.

They degrade every site they are on.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#114689 Jan 18, 2013
One way or another wrote:
What a piece of shit science is, claiming that light can carry images.
Explain a pinhole lens then..... I'll wait.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#114690 Jan 18, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you go with birds and reptile DNA (remember, I am asking a creationist)?
As I recall, your est. was 3B bp.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#114691 Jan 18, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
We are saying you did not understand what she said, in context.
I thought she made herself quite clear. But just out of curiosity, what is your understanding of what she said?

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#114692 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You can blabber all you want but you still did it wrong. Stop making excuses and learn to use the big boy formulas. It's not that difficult. If you simply divide time into smaller portions all you wind up with is equal parts of the whole. Half life doesn't work like that. Grow a set.
Stop wallowing in your foolishness.

A repeated halving follows the pattern of 1 / 2 (to the power of number of halvings).

Get over it, idiot. Its what I said, its what is true by any logic, and its bloody basic. Now STFU and get on with it.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#114693 Jan 18, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Must you always prove you are a moron.
Radio waves can travel through walls.
Go back to kindergarten .
You are so funny, you idiot.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#114694 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You can blabber all you want but you still did it wrong. Stop making excuses and learn to use the big boy formulas. It's not that difficult. If you simply divide time into smaller portions all you wind up with is equal parts of the whole. Half life doesn't work like that. Grow a set.
No, I did it right. Pity you cannot see that. Just shows you are a rote learner.
How many halvings over 65m years? 124,700 if halving every 521 years.
So how much material left? 1/2^124,760. In other words nothing, even if the sample size was massive.
Don't even comprehend how you can maintain your silliness on this, but doubly amused that my conclusion agrees with you that if the half life is 521 years, there could not be any intact DNA after 65 million.
So why are you being an idiot?

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#114695 Jan 18, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The starting point is the genome size of T-rex which I est. at 2B bp. Seems reasonable. Birds and reptiles range around 1B to 3B bps. Sorry, but nobody to my knowledge has ever sequenced a dino DNA last time I checked. Maybe you have another suggestion?
Listen, idiot. It would not matter if you started with 2B or 200B or 2000B, if the half life is 521 years there will be no intact DNA sequence after 65 million years. 1/2^124,7000 is less than 1 / every particle in the universe.

But never mind. Even when my (correctly calculated) conclusion agrees with your rote learning of formulas without comprehension, you still beg to differ.

Poor you.

“Cleaning Up Christianity ”

Since: Jan 13

Topix Badlands

#114696 Jan 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
What is simple for all minds, should be simple for the simple minded. That does not appear to be the case. Do you have evidence to support your claims of there being a god, specifically your god?
Can you prove me wrong? Of course not. And why should you care? I don't care about where you wish spend eternity. Should I?

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#114697 Jan 18, 2013
Janitor Of The LORD wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you prove me wrong? Of course not. And why should you care? I don't care about where you wish spend eternity. Should I?
I expect she will spend eternity dead, as you will. You don't think your little fairy tales are going to preserve you from real death, do you?

Shit, another coward.

“Cleaning Up Christianity ”

Since: Jan 13

Topix Badlands

#114698 Jan 18, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I expect she will spend eternity dead, as you will. You don't think your little fairy tales are going to preserve you from real death, do you?
Shit, another coward.
Why do you care what I think? I don't tell you what to think. God only knows somebody should though. ROTFLOL

Since: Aug 07

Martin, GA

#114699 Jan 18, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Listen, idiot. It would not matter if you started with 2B or 200B or 2000B, if the half life is 521 years there will be no intact DNA sequence after 65 million years. 1/2^124,7000 is less than 1 / every particle in the universe.
But never mind. Even when my (correctly calculated) conclusion agrees with your rote learning of formulas without comprehension, you still beg to differ.
Poor you.
Wha..whaaa...cry like a baby. Your math is wrong and is total nonsense. You refuse to use the proper formula. You insist on denying reality due to your ideology. Wha..waaa. Idiot cry baby!

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