Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178616 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#109489 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point about pharm companies, but nothing to do with evolution.
Would actually concur - there is no doubt that big pharma can often manipulate results to improve their drugs 'marketability'.

I would recommend 'bad science' by Goldacre to see some of the methods used.

However - overall they are a necessary evil if we want medicine that isn't reminiscent of the dark ages.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109490 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
There can be no rational conversation with children that act like they do on page , 5,334. And all throughout this entire thread. You children start all the fighting, even when AWI was quite easy to speak too and he offered none of your childish name calling in return.
He made one simple observation and you children piled on like mindless apes.

???

There is nothing on page 5,334 concerning AWI, either from or to him.

You got the page right?

“Don't get me started”

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#109491 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because your a total moron, that shouldn't bother anyone.
What only careful readers of the article would have gleaned is the extent of the financial connections between the drugmaker and the research. The trial had been funded by GlaxoSmithKline, and each of the 11 authors had received money from the company. Four were employees and held company stock. The other seven were academic experts who had received grants or consultant fees from the firm.
Didja get that moron,--The other seven were academic experts who had received grants or consultant fees from the firm.
Everyone and everything, depend on everyone and everything, only morons don't know that. Lmao
Coping skills 101:
You don't know how transparent you are. Everyone knows that when you call everyone else a moron, it is a defense more than an attack. But if you can stop desplaying your low self esteem in grandiose terms, you might be able to break out of that low self esteem condition.

Sometimes you actually have something to say. Why wreck it with just pissing people off?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109492 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes copy-paste is a good thing. I think this is the article you are referring to:
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR35.3/angell.php
And yes, you are correct with the assumption that pharmaceutcal companies do whatever they can to influence the outcome of clinical trials. They want a maximum dollar in return for every dollar they spend on their products, whether they are useful or harmful or do nothing at all.
A good rule to live by is to avoid taking ANY drug unless you absolutely need it. And even take your doctor's advice with a grain of salt because they get most of their information about the drugs they prescribe from the pharmaceutacal companies.
My personal view is that much of what doctors prescribe (including flu shots and most cold medicines) is a form of welfare for doctors and pharm companies.

This may be true for some doctors, but the ones I have worked with take the perks from the drug reps, listen to their talk and go their merry way. As I have been the recipient of many free lunches and dinners from drug reps I have a fairly good impression of them. And not just for the free stuff. They are regulated and cannot make false claims about their drugs. Yes they are there to hawk their drugs. Yes they get paid a lot of money. And yes I liked the free lunches. But (again from my personal experience) they are pretty good at just sticking to the facts. Lots of information about the drug trials and other research but they do present the common and serious potential side effect, possible drug interactions, etc.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109493 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. I know exactly what you mean. I quit buying powerball tickets a long time ago because EVERY time I've won the grand prize the PB officials changed the numbers so they could give it to someone else that they had pre-selected.

What is Powerball up to now?$425 million or something like that?

Humm..... do I want to pay an extra couple bucks in extra tax?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109494 Nov 26, 2012
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Would actually concur - there is no doubt that big pharma can often manipulate results to improve their drugs 'marketability'.
I would recommend 'bad science' by Goldacre to see some of the methods used.
However - overall they are a necessary evil if we want medicine that isn't reminiscent of the dark ages.

I fully agree. Even though I practically live in the shadow of Lilly and they are probably one of the more ethical drug companies around (pay no attention to the thimerosal behind the curtain!), big pharma is simply a necessary evil.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109495 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes copy-paste is a good thing. I think this is the article you are referring to:
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR35.3/angell.php
And yes, you are correct with the assumption that pharmaceutcal companies do whatever they can to influence the outcome of clinical trials. They want a maximum dollar in return for every dollar they spend on their products, whether they are useful or harmful or do nothing at all.
A good rule to live by is to avoid taking ANY drug unless you absolutely need it. And even take your doctor's advice with a grain of salt because they get most of their information about the drugs they prescribe from the pharmaceutacal companies.
My personal view is that much of what doctors prescribe (including flu shots and most cold medicines) is a form of welfare for doctors and pharm companies.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109496 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Coping skills 101:
You don't know how transparent you are. Everyone knows that when you call everyone else a moron, it is a defense more than an attack. But if you can stop desplaying your low self esteem in grandiose terms, you might be able to break out of that low self esteem condition.
Sometimes you actually have something to say. Why wreck it with just pissing people off?

He is suffering. If he was a horse we would take him out and shoot him. Be we don't do that with people (nor am I advocating for such) and the only one who can help him is himself.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109497 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Coping skills 101:
You don't know how transparent you are. Everyone knows that when you call everyone else a moron, it is a defense more than an attack. But if you can stop desplaying your low self esteem in grandiose terms, you might be able to break out of that low self esteem condition.
Sometimes you actually have something to say. Why wreck it with just pissing people off?
Let's see who you really are.

Go to page 5,334 and read the whole page and see how many of the people on that page used name calling, sarcastic innuendo and more.

Then see how the person they are using such on responds.

Here's yer chance judge.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#109498 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Jimbo - we are largely agreeing with your concern (though personally don't see it as the conspiracy of pure evil you make out)

You made a good point - keep it up
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109499 Nov 26, 2012
All the people in the US, going waay back, paid for all new drugs to be researched and developed, with our taxes. We paid for the teaching schools , all the hospitals and all the infrastructure. Then congress gave away the pharma to individuals that were either family or heavy bribers of congress.

Now the drug cos, like the other huge corporations that congress made possible with out tax money, demand whatever they want and our fully bribed piece of shit congress gives it too them.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109500 Nov 26, 2012
All the American taxes went to pay for all the research and development of the oil industry, way back in the 50's. I still remember one of the commercials.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#109501 Nov 26, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This may be true for some doctors, but the ones I have worked with take the perks from the drug reps, listen to their talk and go their merry way. As I have been the recipient of many free lunches and dinners from drug reps I have a fairly good impression of them. And not just for the free stuff. They are regulated and cannot make false claims about their drugs. Yes they are there to hawk their drugs. Yes they get paid a lot of money. And yes I liked the free lunches. But (again from my personal experience) they are pretty good at just sticking to the facts. Lots of information about the drug trials and other research but they do present the common and serious potential side effect, possible drug interactions, etc.
Actually this is common - I deal with software vendors from time to time and take the freebies but still make a rational evaluation of the products.

Maybe if I got more than a bloody free night out and a overseas conference once in a blue moon I would be more corruptible :-)
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#109502 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
All the people in the US, going waay back, paid for all new drugs to be researched and developed, with our taxes. We paid for the teaching schools , all the hospitals and all the infrastructure. Then congress gave away the pharma to individuals that were either family or heavy bribers of congress.
Now the drug cos, like the other huge corporations that congress made possible with out tax money, demand whatever they want and our fully bribed piece of shit congress gives it too them.
Actually drug companies arnt funded by taxes- they are private companies - this is good as the state couldn't fund the immense sums involved, but also a bad thing as it does often mean profit is put before welfare at times - HIV treatments to Africa for instance.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109503 Nov 26, 2012
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Coping skills 101:
You don't know how transparent you are. Everyone knows that when you call everyone else a moron, it is a defense more than an attack. But if you can stop desplaying your low self esteem in grandiose terms, you might be able to break out of that low self esteem condition.
Sometimes you actually have something to say. Why wreck it with just pissing people off?

Let's see who you really are.

Go to page 5,334 and read the whole page and see how many of the people on that page used name calling, sarcastic innuendo and more.

Then see how the person they are using such on responds.

Here's yer chance judge.

HERE JUDGE---

Instead, it starts with post # 109287
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109504 Nov 26, 2012
Come on appleboy, don't run away now. Go to post # 109287. It starts there and goes on for a page or two.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#109505 Nov 26, 2012
Come on appleboy, you thought it important enough to analyze me, so surely you are still here or did you run away as you must?

Very funny, the morons code, hit and run.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109506 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see who you really are.
Go to page 5,334 and read the whole page and see how many of the people on that page used name calling, sarcastic innuendo and more.
Then see how the person they are using such on responds.
Here's yer chance judge.

Urban Cowboy did most of the name calling on that page.

Are you SURE you got the right page?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109507 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
All the people in the US, going waay back, paid for all new drugs to be researched and developed, with our taxes. We paid for the teaching schools , all the hospitals and all the infrastructure. Then congress gave away the pharma to individuals that were either family or heavy bribers of congress.
Now the drug cos, like the other huge corporations that congress made possible with out tax money, demand whatever they want and our fully bribed piece of shit congress gives it too them.

[.... ahem,..... psssst..... you are doing the paranoid rant thing again]

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109508 Nov 26, 2012
Psychology wrote:
All the American taxes went to pay for all the research and development of the oil industry, way back in the 50's. I still remember one of the commercials.

This is a better post. No rant. However no evidence either.

Why don't you research your claim and if it has merit you should be able to find support for it?

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