Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178667 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95986 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
Many homes have cut their power bills dramatically with direct solar water heating, and payback measured in a few years.
That is a completely different subject.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95987 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Many homes have cut their power bills dramatically with direct solar water heating, and payback measured in a few years.
The costs of photovoltaic have continued to decline and soon you will be able to get a positive IRR on those systems compared to paying the grid...in some places, you can even now.
Storage? For solar in conjunction with other sources, it does not matter. In other cases, batteries are not the only option. For example, you can store chilled water during the day and keep the home cool at night. There are many ways of using the energy that do not depend on batteries.
<quoted text>
Really UC, that is just rubbish! Ever flown over warehouse areas, for example? Acres of idle roof, not exactly the Amazon rain forest. And in desert areas, bio-loss is minimal. There are plenty of options. There is nothing even wrong with a solar park where you mow the lawn below the equipment! Really, what have you been reading to buy this stuff?
<quoted text>
Oil is shyte. I really do wonder at this obsession with a dirty, poisonous substance, largely held by geo-politically unstable enemies of your country, known to pollute and sicken. I am not about to say "dump the oil" because right now its necessary, but I marvel at people like you, who seem to operate on the hope that the Rapture is going to occur before the oil runs out and want to pretend its a benign energy source.
Hydro, great. Same with geothermal, and that has great potential. But solar is a great source of energy too.
OK, you want to ridicule and wax crazy again. Goodbye.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#95988 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Prices, of homes plummeted, rents far less, for a very simple reason. There are the same number of people having to live somewhere whether they own a home or not. So rent demand actually increased while people had to leave their own homes and rent.
Here in Dubai, at least 20% of the population left the country (since most people here are from somewhere else and only here on work visas). Here, not only prices of houses, but rents, both plummeted 60%- 70% in three months!. Places that had rented for AED 220,000 per year suddenly rented for AED 80,000 per year.
That is the difference - there were still just as many people in the USA. Demand for rentals was, if anything, higher than before.
But...but...what about the CONSPIRACY?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#95989 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Solar is no good. You never get your return on investment. It kills the environment and it is terribly inefficient to store. I looked into it for my home. At the Solarstore, the guy (who had a PhD) asked me if I or my neighbors had any trees. Oh, well they all have to be cut down. On large solar farms, it's even worse. You have to destroy the entire ecosystem with roads, insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides and make it basically a sterile, poisoned area where nothing can live anymore and it also creates a giant heat sink. Then you need to transport the energy and store. Bottom line, it is not cost efficient and it destroys the environment. Oil is still the best and it is natural and we have plenty of it. For alternatives, I like hydroelectric power. If we could place generating turbines in the Atlantic Gulfstream off Florida there's enough power for all of S. Florida forever. Why aren't they doing that? Greed!
America has huge swaths of viable solar energy generating space available. The rooftop of every flat-topped building is prime solar territory. That's not even taking into account dead space on the sides of buildings that could be filled with solar panels. And, far more efficient panels are available now than were available even 5 years ago, that increase power output while decreasing profile and weight.

Not to mention, they could also use green roofs, with soil and plants, to reduce heating/cooling costs as well as reduce ambient air temperatures, especially in large cities, where buildings increase the temperature by as much as 15 degrees Fahrenheit. Less maintenance than the tar and stone roofs, reduced energy costs, and reduced demand for energy for air conditioning for everyone around them.

And that doesn't even begin to touch LEED standards, and how few buildings even bother considering them, much less meeting or exceeding them, and how those standards could be even more stringent without a significant increase in up-front cost (but a considerable savings on the back end).

We've spent far too much money figuring out how not to be efficient, and avoid it at all costs. Why not figure out ways to be more efficient and get more out of every bit of energy we have available?

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95990 Jul 15, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
America has huge swaths of viable solar energy generating space available. The rooftop of every flat-topped building is prime solar territory. That's not even taking into account dead space on the sides of buildings that could be filled with solar panels. And, far more efficient panels are available now than were available even 5 years ago, that increase power output while decreasing profile and weight.
Me and my neighbors are not about to cut all our trees down and my Solar assessment by the Solarstore guy was last year and it's $55,000! I will never get my money back.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#95991 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you want to ridicule and wax crazy again. Goodbye.
Come off it. Speaking of waxing crazy:

"Solar is no good. You never get your return on investment. It kills the environment and it is terribly inefficient to store." You, today.

The only part of that with any truth was the storage difficulty. Pointing out this to you is not waxing crazy.

Neither is pointing out that oil is dirty, non-renewable, and causes geo-political instability.

My crack about the Rapture...well, I can't for the life of me understand the thought processes of some of these solar critics and oil champions, unless there is something like that going on - something like "well, 100 years from now does not matter...the end times are here".
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95992 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you want to ridicule and wax crazy again. Goodbye.
I don't know if what they say here is just to have others fight with them on purpose or if they are truly that stupid, but I have a feeling that it's both.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#95993 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a completely different subject.
So you don't think a combination of direct water heating and photovoltaic electrical could ever be used on rooftop systems to dramatically reduce fossil fuel dependency?

I really cannot understand this "solar is no good" mantra.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#95994 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Me and my neighbors are not about to cut all our trees down and my Solar assessment by the Solarstore guy was last year and it's $55,000! I will never get my money back.
The first cars, computers, and even TV's cost a fortune compared to today. Cut ALL the trees down? Do you live in the middle of a forest?

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95995 Jul 15, 2012
Turbines in the gulfstream I say. Steady 5 knots and it never stops. But photovoltaic cell solar is no good mainly because you need a clear view of the sun all day. That's the reality. Sure high buildings but if the building has 300 apartments the roof area is insignificant. Large solar panel farms destroy the habitat and the environment. These are just creating utopias pipe dreams. Only rich smug people that drive Prius cars can do it.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95996 Jul 15, 2012
The main driver of America's housing fall, was due to regular homeowners acting as they were taught since school, although the gov backed scams contributed quite a lot.

However, I doubt any here will know how it was achieved.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95997 Jul 15, 2012
Are solar cells able to withstand large hail storms? Can they withstand lightening strikes? How about fires? Earthquakes? Severe wind storms? Do people steal them? Trees fall on them?

How much does a persons insurance go up when these are installed?
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95998 Jul 15, 2012
If solar cell tech is worth it, drive by your local politicians homes and see if they are on their houses.

Not necessarily the rich politicians homes, because they may do it just to create the illusion that they care and likely some contractor made it cheap or free, as a bribe.

Look at the lower level politicians homes.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95999 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The first cars, computers, and even TV's cost a fortune compared to today. Cut ALL the trees down? Do you live in the middle of a forest?
I have a 40 foot avocado tree on the right side, a 60 foot casaurina (australian pine) on the left, a 50 foot walnut tree in the front, and very tall palms all around. Oh, did I mention my massive royal poincetta tree in the front yard? These all would have to go. And even if I were willing to ax my own trees all my neighbors around me also have yards filled with trees that would also have to go in order for MY solar to work. It just ain't happening. And the birds and squirels wouldn't like it either.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#96000 Jul 15, 2012
Of course, if you do all the cost projections, tree cutting, the loss of cooling from tree cutting around and over the home, the added cooling costs to the home by air conditioning, the escalating costs of insurance and more, how long till the system breaks even, providing nothing goes wrong, what are the maintainence costs?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#96001 Jul 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
I think for myself,...

And doing a pretty crappy job of it.

Would you like to take a psychological test that rates one for paranoia?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#96002 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a 40 foot avocado tree on the right side, a 60 foot casaurina (australian pine) on the left, a 50 foot walnut tree in the front, and very tall palms all around. Oh, did I mention my massive royal poincetta tree in the front yard? These all would have to go. And even if I were willing to ax my own trees all my neighbors around me also have yards filled with trees that would also have to go in order for MY solar to work. It just ain't happening. And the birds and squirels wouldn't like it either.
Well, keep the lovely trees, they sound very nice. It still does not mean that a large solar array on a warehouse roof or a hectare of desert won't work, or is destructive. You trashed solar completely on a set of very conditional criticisms...then accused ME of exaggeration!
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#96003 Jul 15, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
And doing a pretty crappy job of it.
Would you like to take a psychological test that rates one for paranoia?
Sure, but I'll likely read very paranoid. However, you are unable to prove what I claim is wrong.

Bring the test.:-)

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#96004 Jul 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Of course, if you do all the cost projections, tree cutting, the loss of cooling from tree cutting around and over the home, the added cooling costs to the home by air conditioning, the escalating costs of insurance and more, how long till the system breaks even, providing nothing goes wrong, what are the maintainence costs?
The equation is very simple, as follows:

If Chimney, LG, Dude, Mike, Dogen, or Polymath or AG or Mugwump think its a good idea, Pet Whisperer thinks its a bad idea.

If Chimney, LG, Dude, Mike, Dogen, or Polymath or AG or Mugwump think its a bad idea, Pet Whisperer thinks its a good idea.

In brief, the inequality: Scientific View =/= PW View holds under all conceivable conditions.

And that is the dismal sum of Pet Whisperer Psychology, revealed.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#96005 Jul 15, 2012
By the way, if I chose, I could easily beat the test and seem without paranoia. Would you like me to do that first?

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