Bush Plans to Veto Stem Cell Bill

[AJM]

retired wrote:

Note the headline.“Bush Plans to Veto Stem Cell Bill.”
Too bad we just can’t veto Bush. Did anybody notice that, having ordered the flag to be flown at half-staff for 30 days in honor of former President Reagan, current President Bush curtailed the time by three days so that the flag wouldn’t have to be flown at half-staff on the Fourth of July?(Not that we don’t fly it at half-staff on other days — like Memorial Day for instance.) Wouldn’t it be great if we could similarly curtail current President Bush’s time in office by 10%? Let’s see … that’d come out to a little over 292 days. Wow! That means he’d already be out now. Ah, but then who’d be in? Cheney. Can’t win for losing.

You then can vote for Billary Clinton your SHERO.
You Yankees seem to like Carpet BAggers.

[Iria]

Upstate New Yorker wrote:

<quoted text>
And I suppose "Hill-billary" the carpetbagger is your saving grace, huh? Stem cell research on embryonic tissue gathered from MURDERED BABIES has been proven fruitless, and strangely enough, stem cells from tissue other than embryos has proven to be very successful. It gets to the point that regardless of your spiritual, religious, or political background, WHAT WORKS WORKS, AND WHAT DOESN'T DOESN'T. Calling Bush a chimp doesn't solve any problems. I could have(and have on occasion) called Hillary Clinton an irritating bitch (many liberals out your way agree that she is -- read the Huffington Post if you don't believe me), but that won't solve any problem either.

You do know these embryos are going to be tossed in the trash right? He's not saving any lives by doing this. How are they murdered babies? Unless a law is passed against trashing these unused embryos, they are just going to waste.

[roadrunner48808]

mad as hell wrote:

you bunch of democrap fools why don't get a life maybe they injected some monkey stem cells into you you might grow a brain .as for hillary's health care bill that would be huge mistake it doesn't work anywhere else so why should it work here. even the the dems in congress in 94 thought it was bulls--t!

Too bad they can't give you stem cells to teach you to form a real sentence or use proper grammar or even how to spell! Just how old are you?

[madge]

Iria, from an ethical and biological standpoint, the offspring of human beings are themselves human beings. This is the definition used at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII, by the way and it is a good one.

A human embryo is a human being. It has its own genetic code which is different from its parents (donors). Unless the process is interrupted (say, by extracting vital stem cells and experimenting upon the embryo) it will develop into a fetus and then be born, at which point it will be called a neo-nate. Development continues until approximately age 22 years, at which point the individual has reached biological adulthood. The deliberate killing of an innocent human being has always been considered murder. There is nothing inflammatory about the description.

While it may be true that many of these embryos are "doomed", that does not give anyone the right to use them as spare parts, does it?

Back to Nuremberg....at the trials, Nazi doctors justified using the skin of Jewish women for lampshades by stating that, "otherwise the remains of those who were gassed would have been wasted."

Unless we are willing to adopt the logic of Nazis, we should NEVER try to justify the killing of the innocent -- for any purpose -- but especially the attempt to discover cures for human disease.

No one, not even a scientist or the President of the United States or your or I, have the authority to permit the killing of the innocent.

[Chief Wiggum]

twocentsworth wrote:

I wish every one would March on Washington , Call their Congressmen and Senators . And Impeach the Dumb Jerk . I`m so sick of Bush getting his way with his Twisted Adjenda . I bet he was the 666th Baby born on that day . And I bet he had a Blue turbin on in his Baby picture . Nostradamas . Now that nearly every other Nation in the world Hates The USA . I truly still do not understand why People voted for him a second time . He got in Illegaly in the first place . With his Brother Jebby fixing the Ballot . And they are all on the take from the Big Drug Company`s . Thats why Billions are spent every year on so called research . But it`s funny , they never seem to find a cure for any thing . But the drugs cost too much . and our health care system is a total train wreck . Doctors don`t want to cure any one ! they just want the whole country to be On antidepressants .

I wish people would make up their minds: First they claim that Bush has no brain, is stupid, etc. Then they try to accuse him of being involved in a plot that would make Machiavelli proud. You can't be stupid and involved in a conspiracy of this magnitude. Stick to the facts and leave the crybaby bull at home. After 6 1/2 years, it's a little tedious and laughing at you is not nearly as much fun as it used to be. I'm starting to worry that you actually believe this shite...

[Chuck Zimmerman]

Chief Wiggum wrote:

<quoted text>
I wish people would make up their minds: First they claim that Bush has no brain, is stupid, etc. Then they try to accuse him of being involved in a plot that would make Machiavelli proud. You can't be stupid and involved in a conspiracy of this magnitude. Stick to the facts and leave the crybaby bull at home. After 6 1/2 years, it's a little tedious and laughing at you is not nearly as much fun as it used to be. I'm starting to worry that you actually believe this shite...

Of course the first imbecile couldn't think up complicated schemes. his drug-adelled brain couldn't correlate. Instead he is the perfect pawn for "plausable deniability".

The terrorists are in the Whitehouse.

[ADD Boy]

Chuck Zimmerman wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course the first imbecile couldn't think up complicated schemes. his drug-adelled brain couldn't correlate. Instead he is the perfect pawn for "plausable deniability".
The terrorists are in the Whitehouse.

So you really DO believe the shite Chief Wiggum mentioned? How many times were you dropped on your head as a child? Or was it a lack of bre@st feeding? Remember, just because you are paranoid, doesn't mena they're NOT out to get you!

[marcaurelius]

Is it true that Bush is only vetoing stem cell research that is "publicly funded?"

[marcaurelius]

== You Yankees seem to like Carpet BAggers.

George W. Bush -- a yankee with a fake
Texas accent?

[EwerL]

I consider always how these primitive American society should elect this sick alcoholic and moron. This man could kill 700000 Iraqis ( living people just as Americans are) and he wants to protect life, which does not exist ( stem cells ). It is total sick madman.

[ADD Boy]

EwerL wrote:

I consider always how these primitive American society should elect this sick alcoholic and moron. This man could kill 700000 Iraqis ( living people just as Americans are) and he wants to protect life, which does not exist ( stem cells ). It is total sick madman.

I'm not going to respond to anything said about America or OUR president. Instead, I'll point out the fallacy of your 700,000 dead figure. According to Yahoo Education figures (http://education.yahoo.com/re ference/factbook/iz/popula.htm l)in 2005 Iraq had an estimated death rate of 5.49/1000 population. With a population of just over 26 million, this means 143,151 died in 2005. With the war just over 4 years old, IF EVERY SINGLE IRAQI DEATH DURING THOSE YEARS WAS DIRECTLY LINKED TO U.S. ACTION THE TOTAL (assumes 4.25 years) WOULD ONLY BE 608,393. This means no heart attacks, no vehicle accidents, no old age, no infant mortatlity, etc.

In short, don't believe everything you read - and even if you do believe it, check the facts before you go posting it everywhere. It's people like you that give facts from the internet a bad name.

[Chuck Zimmerman]

ADD Boy wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not going to respond to anything said about America or OUR president. Instead, I'll point out the fallacy of your 700,000 dead figure. According to Yahoo Education figures (http://education.yahoo.com/re ference/factbook/iz/popula.htm l)in 2005 Iraq had an estimated death rate of 5.49/1000 population. With a population of just over 26 million, this means 143,151 died in 2005. With the war just over 4 years old, IF EVERY SINGLE IRAQI DEATH DURING THOSE YEARS WAS DIRECTLY LINKED TO U.S. ACTION THE TOTAL (assumes 4.25 years) WOULD ONLY BE 608,393. This means no heart attacks, no vehicle accidents, no old age, no infant mortatlity, etc.
In short, don't believe everything you read - and even if you do believe it, check the facts before you go posting it everywhere. It's people like you that give facts from the internet a bad name.

Sorry but your statics are irrelevant. The unneccessary deaths from OUR invasion have been tallied & accounted for by reputable sources.

[Evmandude]

madge wrote:

http://www.all.org/article.php ?id=10328
This is a good place to start for anyone who wants to know more about ethical stem cell research.

Madge: I admit that you make very good, even great points in you "arguments", but you didn't actually address my question directly. You seem to be very adaptable in some directions of thinking, but unreasonably ridgid in others. While I admire your resolution, committment, and clarity, I can't help but think that your entire bias is based on some sort of weird Nazi/discovery/parental field trip. You are obviously more formally educated than I, but oblivious to some things that seem obvious to myself and others that I can only admire. I don't care whether or not fetuses(sp) are wasted, and I don't carewhether or not experiments anre done on biological "waste". I do want cures found for diseases and I do want suffering people to have relief. Neither Jesus or God are helping my friend that has young onset parkinson's disease. Science can do a lot but WE can do MORE by supporting science. I have enjoyed reading your posts and will look for them in the future.

[ADD Boy]

Chuck Zimmerman wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry but your statics are irrelevant. The unneccessary deaths from OUR invasion have been tallied & accounted for by reputable sources.

Name them. I cited facts and sources, can't you? Or are the facts inconvenient for your preconceived notions about "Bush lied, people died"?

[madge]

Evmandude, I am sorry if my remarks seemed "biased". I am simply trying to make the scientific case for using adult stem cells rather than embryonic stem cells. ESCR (Embryonic stem cell research) is taking away funding from ASCR (adult stem cell research). Great strides are being made in curing diseases (like Parkinsons) but there is much more research needed.

As I stated earlier, embryonic cells are undifferentiated. No scientist can predict what kind of cells they will become until they are implanted and begin growing. This is VERY dangerous. Maybe you read my post concerning a man (a Parkinson patient) who received embryonic stem cells which turned out to be tooth cells and began growing in his brain and caused his death.

My point about Nazi concentration camp "science" is this: If we permit experimentation upon living human beings WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT (as we do with human embryos -- and remember, an embryo is simply a human being at an early stage of development) then we are employing the SAME logic that the Nazis used. What is the difference between using the skin of Jewish women for lampshades and harvesting stem cells from human embryos?
Is it because we can see the woman and the embryo is small? Is a small person less human than a big person?

We are all members of the species, homo-sapiens. NOTHING is added to a human embryo besides nutrition and oxygen. That's all it takes for the embryo to fulfill its destiny. You and I were once embryos. That is NOT a religious notion. Or a philosophical opinion. It is a biological FACT.

The kindest thing you can do for your friend is to promote Adult Stem Cell Research.

Thank you so much for your comments. At least we agree on the fact that REAL science should be supported.

[madge]

As politicians continue to debate funding embryonic stem cell research, studies on adult stem cells show continued promise. In the first trial of its kind in the world, 60 patients who have recently suffered a major heart attack will be injected with selected stem cells from their own bone marrow during routine coronary bypass surgery. The Bristol trial will test whether the stem cells will repair heart muscle cells damaged by the heart attack, by preventing late scar formation and hence impaired heart contraction. Dr. Raimondo Ascione from the University of Bristol and colleagues at the Bristol Heart Institute (BHI) have been awarded a grant of £210,000 from the British Heart Foundation (BHF) to conduct the clinical trial. Professor Jeremy Pearson, Associate Medical Director of the BHF, said:” We hope that this exciting Bristol project will provide information taking us a step nearer to the day when stem cells can be used routinely to help repair damaged hearts.” In a heart attack, part of the heart muscle loses its blood supply (usually due to furring up of the arteries with fatty material) and cells in that part of the heart die, leaving a scar. This reduces the ability of the heart to pump blood around the body. While the blood supply to the heart can be improved with coronary bypass surgery or angioplasty, thereby reducing the risk of further heart attacks, these techniques do not restore the viability and function of the area already damaged. In 3-6 months after surgery, 20 per cent of patients develop a thinning of the walls of the heart, which in its most extreme form, can lead to congestive heart failure. Dr Raimondo Ascione, Consultant Cardiac Surgeon, said:“We have elected to use a very promising stem cell type selected from the patient’s own bone marrow. This approach ensures no risk of rejection or infection. It also gets around the ethical issues that would result from use of stem cells from embryonic or fetal tissue."