Orderly Universe: Evidence of God?

Since writing my book "Irreligion" and some of my recent Who's Counting columns, I've received a large number of e-mails from subscribers to creation science .

[Doug in Texas]

Some people will never get the God connection to life and some will not want to like this author

[Mr Reality]

Wow,
I am sure this one will cause more of a storm than any clinton vs bush article.

I think it is so true though,...the fact that there are amazing complexities and an assembalance of order in the universe is not evidence of god.

Not to say that there is a god or not,....nobody can know that.

but that an assumption does not prove as fact.

I am sure a bunch of people will come on here and claim absolutely yes there is a god and absolutly no.

but in reality...no one knows,...and the only honest humble response you can give is

I believe there is
I do not believe there is

[Daniel]

What a bunch of Lofty throw together Tripe! Albert Einstein was of the Opinion that the Order of the Universe was NOT a Random Occurrence. There is no Question......That his Understanding was Greater than, any inputs that made up this Article.

[Liam R]

Nice article, if only the creationists could READ...

[Daniel]

Liam R wrote:

Nice article, if only the creationists could READ...

Nice Article?.....and Creationists cannot READ? What a Dumb statement. Of Course, Your a Godless Liberal and Foolish statements are Expected.

[MADRONE]

Liam R wrote:

Nice article, if only the creationists could READ...

C'mon... They can all read (mostly). It's just that the words go through that Silly Filter.

[Mr Reality]

Daniel wrote:

What a bunch of Lofty throw together Tripe! Albert Einstein was of the Opinion that the Order of the Universe was NOT a Random Occurrence. There is no Question......That his Understanding was Greater than, any inputs that made up this Article.

True,...but he also did not believe in a super natural being either

[Godboy]

Orderly Universe: Evidence of God?

Well, duh!

and where you see Chaos, know that Satan is there.

[Peter Paul]

This argument has almost nothing to do with whether an ordered universe is evidence of god, and almost everything to do with whether we're going to allow radical, evangelical fundie rubes to dictate to the majority the terms of our religion, science, politics, and social policy.

[ixlnxs]

Mr Reality wrote:

<quoted text>
True,...but he also did not believe in a super natural being either

No, he believed in God.

http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/index.html

[ixlnxs]

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.(Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.(Albert Einstein, 1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.(Albert Einstein)

http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/index.html

[SICKOFIT]

WHOA NOW!! Let's see here, It seems science wants us to believe that the universe is so incredibly complicated that everything just falls into place.Perfect order from total chaos. BALONEY!

[Darwins Stepchild]

Daniel wrote:

What a bunch of Lofty throw together Tripe! Albert Einstein was of the Opinion that the Order of the Universe was NOT a Random Occurrence. There is no Question......That his Understanding was Greater than, any inputs that made up this Article.

However, Einstein was not aware of the mathematics of Chaos Theory/Complexity Theory. This is largely what Paulos was talking about in his article, though he didn't give their names. Chaos Theory has some very counterintuitive results. One is that starting with a chaotic system, parts of the system will end up displaying order. This is a natural result. Another aspect is that very simple rules can lead to very great complexity.

Thus, order does not require a force to create order, nor does complexity have to be the result of design. Thus the argument that order and complexity prove God is shown to be hollow.

This, of course, does not disprove God. It merely shows that this argument for God is false.

[Darwins Stepchild]

ixlnxs wrote:

<quoted text>
No, he believed in God.
http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/index.html

Note, from your post following the one I am quote here, that Einstein did not believe in the Christian /Jewish god. His was not a personal god. What he believed in was an impersonal god that was a personification of the rules of nature.

[Janie]

I've never written in one of these blogs or forums or whaterver you call it but I just had to speak MY truth.

God or whatever you want to call a higher power is Awesome and he is in all of us. God is the universe and everything and everyone in it. If everyone could just open their minds, hearts, and souls and have faith in things not seen but only felt with the heart it would be true Heaven on Earth. And no, I am not a Jesus Freak but if you want to call me one I'll be proud of the title. I don't believe there's a big guy on a throne sitting up in the sky passing out judgment. It has taken me 50+ years and countless tears to get to this place in my life and I'd do it all again willingly if I knew what I had to look forward to. I know if you can wrap your mind around faith and science it all becomes clear. And no, I'm not on any mind-altering drugs. I wish everyone could see what I see. I wish you light. Believe.

[Darwins Stepchild]

SICKOFIT wrote:

WHOA NOW!! Let's see here, It seems science wants us to believe that the universe is so incredibly complicated that everything just falls into place.Perfect order from total chaos. BALONEY!

Read up on Chaos Theory before you make such absolute statements. The mathematics says you are wrong.

[Janie]

I don't know why it says Evansville, IN. I'm in Fort Worth, Texas.

[hexene]

Janie wrote:

I've never written in one of these blogs or forums or whaterver you call it but I just had to speak MY truth.
God or whatever you want to call a higher power is Awesome and he is in all of us. God is the universe and everything and everyone in it. If everyone could just open their minds, hearts, and souls and have faith in things not seen but only felt with the heart it would be true Heaven on Earth. And no, I am not a Jesus Freak but if you want to call me one I'll be proud of the title. I don't believe there's a big guy on a throne sitting up in the sky passing out judgment. It has taken me 50+ years and countless tears to get to this place in my life and I'd do it all again willingly if I knew what I had to look forward to. I know if you can wrap your mind around faith and science it all becomes clear. And no, I'm not on any mind-altering drugs. I wish everyone could see what I see. I wish you light. Believe.

Great.....but you are speaking an opinion not a truth.

[SICKOFIT]

Darwins Stepchild wrote:

<quoted text>
Read up on Chaos Theory before you make such absolute statements. The mathematics says you are wrong.

The mathematics are beyond the understanding of the upright thinking monkey(Human).

[the right stuff]

Well God himself said he “is” so he does exists, what proof? He created the universe, the air you breath, the DNA in side of you and the earth under your feet. Just look in the mirror, your made in his image. But some don’t believe this and the author of this Orderly Universe seems to be unable to, yeah God said something in regards to that,“There is nothing new under the sun” He knows about those who reject him and they will be the first to bow before him when he throws the switch, have fun. Anyhow if God did not make all of this from the mighty sun to the smallest atom on earth and the remarkable things in the human body then what did?, some copout answer like JOHN ALLEN PAULOS gives because he can not understand that it is not just about intelligent design, but of pure will and power beyond that of a mere mortal. How about this, go out and buy a blasted Bible and read it, you learn a lot of things that you just assumed about religion, which isn’t a mind set, but all around us, in and around the earth. But are you strong enough to face the truth? I’ve faced a lot of non believers in my time, and I’ve found something in common, in them it’s the guilt, the sin, fear, it’s sad, for God being so bad and not being real he shows a lot of love, and his son was the same,“Forgive them father, for they know not what they do” I think the evolutionary monkey said that too, Okay non belivers throw them stones.