"Science vs. Religion: What Scientist...

"Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think"

There are 85533 comments on the Examiner.com story from Jan 22, 2012, titled "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think". In it, Examiner.com reports that:

It is fascinating to note that atheists boast that most scientists are atheists.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Richardfs

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#7710 Jun 3, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is not correct. Hybrid EVs (HEVs) are a bit better because they allow smaller ICE (internal combustion engine) for the same power. The electricity generated through regenerative braking does help. ICE~ 13000 lbs of CO2 annually vs. 84000 lbs for HEV.
The plug-in hybrids (PHEV) are even a little cleaner, depending on the driving habit. The Volt is 100% battery for the first 40 miles or so. Studies show that 90% of Americans drive less than 40 miles a day on average, so the average Volt can work just off the battery almost all the time. Should a driver go beyond this 40 miles, a ICE kicks in and extends the range indefinitely.
Lastly the battery EV (BEV) is 100% battery all the time. This vehicle has 0 tailpipe emissions. Yes, depending on the source of your electric there may be emissions at the source. Nationally, American energy is about 49.61% coal, so the BEV's effective CO2 emission is about 8000 lbs annually.
The other thing to note is that a BEV is the only vehicle you will ever drive that will get cleaner the longer you drive it. We have about reach the limit of what we can do to scrub tailpipe emissions, but we are just getting started with power generation emissions. And we are retiring more and more coal in favor of cleaner alternatives.
(Sorry, EV and EVSE education is my job.)
But, isn't that just reducing and relocating the pollution.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#7711 Jun 3, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is not correct. Hybrid EVs (HEVs) are a bit better because they allow smaller ICE (internal combustion engine) for the same power. The electricity generated through regenerative braking does help. ICE~ 13000 lbs of CO2 annually vs. 84000 lbs for HEV.
The plug-in hybrids (PHEV) are even a little cleaner, depending on the driving habit. The Volt is 100% battery for the first 40 miles or so. Studies show that 90% of Americans drive less than 40 miles a day on average, so the average Volt can work just off the battery almost all the time. Should a driver go beyond this 40 miles, a ICE kicks in and extends the range indefinitely.
Lastly the battery EV (BEV) is 100% battery all the time. This vehicle has 0 tailpipe emissions. Yes, depending on the source of your electric there may be emissions at the source. Nationally, American energy is about 49.61% coal, so the BEV's effective CO2 emission is about 8000 lbs annually.
The other thing to note is that a BEV is the only vehicle you will ever drive that will get cleaner the longer you drive it. We have about reach the limit of what we can do to scrub tailpipe emissions, but we are just getting started with power generation emissions. And we are retiring more and more coal in favor of cleaner alternatives.
(Sorry, EV and EVSE education is my job.)
Wow! Stuff I have very limited comprehension of! Thanks :)

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7712 Jun 3, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
But, isn't that just reducing and relocating the pollution.
Isn't reducing pollutants the whole point?

Here, let's look at some real numbers.

50,000 compact cars produce about 231,000 tons of CO2 annually pluse significant particulate matter (PM) and hydrocarbon (HC) Emissions (HC reacts to produce O3). PM & HC together produce smog.

50,000 BEVs using our current 49% coal source only produce 182,000 tons CO2.

(If we could produce electricity using all renewable sources it would be 0 tons CO2.)

The cost of reducing emissions further from the tailpipe is too prohibitive to get an ICE much cleaner. It is much easier to improve air scrubbers and power conversion efficiencies at the central power plant.

And we have a number of efforts currently underway to replace coal with natural gas (both CNG & LBG), nuclear, etc.(Even central power generation using petroleum is cleaner than coal or using it in your car.) So these power sources keep getting cleaner.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7713 Jun 3, 2012
BTW, in my last post the numbers were specific for the mix of power generation sources used here in Georgia.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7714 Jun 3, 2012
Here's some links, in order of level of details. Note that there are slight variations in numbers depending on the analysis methods used and baseline assumptions.--

Dept. of Energy -- " http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/elec... ;

MIT - " http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_wtw.pdf" ;

Stanford - " http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/parti... ;

Richardfs

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#7715 Jun 3, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't reducing pollutants the whole point?
Here, let's look at some real numbers.
50,000 compact cars produce about 231,000 tons of CO2 annually pluse significant particulate matter (PM) and hydrocarbon (HC) Emissions (HC reacts to produce O3). PM & HC together produce smog.
50,000 BEVs using our current 49% coal source only produce 182,000 tons CO2.
(If we could produce electricity using all renewable sources it would be 0 tons CO2.)
The cost of reducing emissions further from the tailpipe is too prohibitive to get an ICE much cleaner. It is much easier to improve air scrubbers and power conversion efficiencies at the central power plant.
And we have a number of efforts currently underway to replace coal with natural gas (both CNG & LBG), nuclear, etc.(Even central power generation using petroleum is cleaner than coal or using it in your car.) So these power sources keep getting cleaner.
Sorry you misunderstood what I was getting at, my fault not yours.

What I am trying to say and not doing a very good job at it, is we are running out of fossil fuels. Putting it simply we are using them faster than they are made. In 30-100 years we will be out.

So, to me at least, until we find a real supply of alternative energy i.e. fusion, we are up sh!t creek in a barbed wire canoe chasing tadpoles with a crowbar.

The average home uses 20-35 kWhrs of energy per day. People in the so called third world countries use less than 10 kWhrs far less. But they want our standard of living and who are we to say no?

But if we we can not sustain our current levels of energy consumption what chance do they have.

The only hope I see is in projects like NIF, when they get fusion up and running then as I said before all bets are off.

Richardfs

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#7718 Jun 3, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
Here's some links, in order of level of details. Note that there are slight variations in numbers depending on the analysis methods used and baseline assumptions.--
Dept. of Energy -- " http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/elec... ;
MIT - " http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_wtw.pdf" ;
Stanford - " http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/parti... ;
Thanks, but please remember I wasn't just talking about transport.

Little something to think about when you next make some toast. The energy used to make two slices toast is enough to lift a 1kg weight vertically 26 kilometers.
The pet whisperer

United States

#7719 Jun 3, 2012
Thanks for giving me reason to present the proof again and again.
The pet whisperer

United States

#7720 Jun 3, 2012
Since there is no proof that Finland is dumb enough to teach evolution, is there any proof that other dumb nations study evolution?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#7721 Jun 3, 2012
The pet whisperer wrote:
Since there is no proof that Finland is dumb enough to teach evolution, is there any proof that other dumb nations study evolution?
Uhm...every nation with a biological science department at a research institute - often known as "universities" to lay people.

:p
The pet whisperer

United States

#7722 Jun 3, 2012
Please tell us England is not teaching evolution, as they are falling down the educational ladder. Lol
The pet whisperer

United States

#7723 Jun 3, 2012
That was for all you purposeful dumb Brits. By what you do here, you deserve to get dumber, you poodles.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7724 Jun 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm...every nation with a biological science department at a research institute - often known as "universities" to lay people.
:p
Right now he's just posting nonsense and ignoring all responses in the hopes that someone is stupid enough to buy his nonsense. It's a typical tactic of the creatards these days. We could post anything insulting him and he would not read it, watch.

Pet Whisperer, you are a lying satanist.
The pet whisperer

United States

#7725 Jun 3, 2012
Ya got no proof. I brought proof they don't teach evolution in Finland. Stay stupid, it looks good on you.
The pet whisperer

United States

#7726 Jun 3, 2012
Studying evolution breeds stupidity. America and England are proof, while Finland does not study evolution and they are the smartest nation.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#7727 Jun 3, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Right now he's just posting nonsense and ignoring all responses in the hopes that someone is stupid enough to buy his nonsense. It's a typical tactic of the creatards these days. We could post anything insulting him and he would not read it, watch.
Pet Whisperer, you are a lying satanist.
Thanks. Yeah. Shock!

Creationist lies for Jesus!

The sky is blue!

Water...is wet.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7728 Jun 3, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry you misunderstood what I was getting at, my fault not yours.
What I am trying to say and not doing a very good job at it, is we are running out of fossil fuels. Putting it simply we are using them faster than they are made. In 30-100 years we will be out.
So, to me at least, until we find a real supply of alternative energy i.e. fusion, we are up sh!t creek in a barbed wire canoe chasing tadpoles with a crowbar.
The average home uses 20-35 kWhrs of energy per day. People in the so called third world countries use less than 10 kWhrs far less. But they want our standard of living and who are we to say no?
But if we we can not sustain our current levels of energy consumption what chance do they have.
The only hope I see is in projects like NIF, when they get fusion up and running then as I said before all bets are off.
Okay. Gotcha.

It's a big puzzle with lots of pieces. I don't think there a magic bullet solution.

My focus right now is the fossil fuel problem as it relates to America. We are down to only importing about 40% of our need, but that's still too much. Also, about 70% of our fossil fuel consumption is in transportation. So, it's an important piece of the puzzle.

You will note that I said nothing earlier about fuel cell vehicles (FCV) as their cost of fuel production is upside down on W2W energy available.

Looking at the bigger picture, I am not holding my breath for fusion power generation.

I do see potential in some of the strides we've been making in solar as a clean renewable. The EV industry will help spark more efforts in efficiencies there, plus a lot more work in battery cost per kwh.

The development of a "smart grid" that can balance our power consumption across multiple small generation nodes instead of our current central generation method should also help a lot.

Right now here in Georgia our coal plants have to produce output for peak demand which is summer mid afternoon when all the A/C is humming along. This means that the generator is producing way more power than we are using at off-peak and this is all wasted. Smart grid can also create major strides in efficiencies in this area.

I'm for serious research in multiple solutions. We are not going to reduce our energy consumption needs and, in fact, will continue to need more, especially in developing countries. We need clean solutions and intelligent management of all power generation and storage.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7729 Jun 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. Yeah. Shock!
Creationist lies for Jesus!
The sky is blue!
Water...is wet.
Ah, but is water wet? If what water is on is wet then water itself is not wet because it is causing wet.

:p
Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#7731 Jun 3, 2012
The pet whisperer wrote:
That was for all you purposeful dumb Brits. By what you do here, you deserve to get dumber, you poodles.
Yep being science it is taught in science classes I'm the UK

And remember IT WAS YOU that stated that Finland doesn't teach evolution

Then failed to back it up

Pretty moronic of you huh?
Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#7732 Jun 3, 2012
The pet whisperer wrote:
Please tell us England is not teaching evolution, as they are falling down the educational ladder. Lol
Sorry my above post was in response to THIS quoted piece on delusional nonsense, I mistakenly quoted a different piece of delusional nonsense in my previous post.

That's the problem with Jimbo, he churns out so much bullshit that quoting ANY of his posts is going to be nonsense

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